Does the federal gov't bail out GM?

[SkinBasket]

If they do not the Big 3 will be the Big 0.

They already are the Big 0. Paying a company to make a car that I'll then have to buy doesn't make much sense to me.

[Freak Out]

Considering 1 in 10 jobs is tied to the US auto industry we need to do something.....is it just giving them cash to operate like they want..? Hell no. But there are ways we can help where everyone should benefit in some way.

[SkinBasket]

1 in 10 jobs or 1 in 10 pensions?

[Freak Out]

1 in 10 jobs or 1 in 10 pensions?

I thought that all/most of the pension costs and health care costs had been rolled over to Union responsibility during the last negotiations with the UAW? So you believe giving any assistance at all the the US auto industry is just throwing $$$ at the UAW?

[Harlan Huckleby]

We should be spending this money on infrastructure for the future that will benefit all Americans instead of piling money on these fools. Roads, rail , power, broadband, schools...the list is long. GM should have been smartening up instead of building SUVs for the last 20 years. They fucking deserve to fail. The only way they get money is if we get something in return. Like a nice electric train or something. Why are we buying German light rail instead of American. Oh ya....they have an incentive to do it. Most of these bailouts were another fleece job on Americans that really wont benefit any of us in the long run.

Freak Out's argument sounds good. But there is such a huge ripple effect of the auto industry, a huge chunk of the economy is related to the automobile beyond GM & Ford.

The Chinese don't let major industries go under during non-competitive periods, they protect and nurture them.

I don't know who's smarter, Freak Out or the Chinese.

I don't trust anybody's opinion on this issue, it's too difficult to predict the consequences of any action, or the consequences of doing nothing. I just close my eyes and hope Barry chooses the right course.

[bobblehead]

The notion of GM going under is terrifying.

It is bad for workers who planned their retirements based on impossible deals worked out by unions. But even if GM goes under, the workers won't disappear and the plants won't go away, much of the infrastructure would still be there. Businesses fail - it's a startling thing, but huge businesses have failed in the U.S in the past. You never know - the car company rising from the ashes of GM might be far better suited to compete in this century.

stop with that logic thing and advocating capitalism. We live in a society of nonfailure and bailouts. competition is ugly and it causes great pain to the inefficient and weak.

[Freak Out]

We should be spending this money on infrastructure for the future that will benefit all Americans instead of piling money on these fools. Roads, rail , power, broadband, schools...the list is long. GM should have been smartening up instead of building SUVs for the last 20 years. They fucking deserve to fail. The only way they get money is if we get something in return. Like a nice electric train or something. Why are we buying German light rail instead of American. Oh ya....they have an incentive to do it. Most of these bailouts were another fleece job on Americans that really wont benefit any of us in the long run.

Freak Out's argument sounds good. But there is such a huge ripple effect of the auto industry, a huge chunk of the economy is related to the automobile beyond GM & Ford.

The Chinese don't let major industries go under during non-competitive periods, they protect and nurture them.

I don't know who's smarter, Freak Out or the Chinese.

I don't trust anybody's opinion on this issue, it's too difficult to predict the consequences of any action, or the consequences of doing nothing. I just close my eyes and hope Barry chooses the right course.

The Chinese have me beat hands down. I'm not for letting them fail.....but we need to have a much smarter option then just giving them cash to run like they always have.

[bobblehead]

1 in 10 jobs or 1 in 10 pensions?

I thought that all/most of the pension costs and health care costs had been rolled over to Union responsibility during the last negotiations with the UAW? So you believe giving any assistance at all the the US auto industry is just throwing $$$ at the UAW?

Doesn't matter which...they are both inefficient and got themselves into this mess. There was a very real and pressing reason to loosen up the credit markets (although people have stopped borrowing so it was somewhat pointless...yes read that as I was wrong.)

Markets have a way of weeding out the morons....we need to let them work. I overestimated our ability to avoid paying the piper by bailing out the credit markets...we are suffering the damage anyway. We might as well have saved the 700 billion. If we let this model fail a more efficient better model will be developed. Its the natural selection of economics. We know how you liberals love natural selection. (ok me too)

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty like AMEX is counting on the Feds declaring me a bank...then i'll scoop up some of that bailout money.

[SkinBasket]

1 in 10 jobs or 1 in 10 pensions?

I thought that all/most of the pension costs and health care costs had been rolled over to Union responsibility during the last negotiations with the UAW? So you believe giving any assistance at all the the US auto industry is just throwing $$$ at the UAW?

I don't know about GM, but Ford owes $20 or $30 billion payment to the UAW as as part of that transferal of pension responsibility. Of course they don't have it, and it's what they need the government money for, to essentially pass along to the pension fund.

[Jimx29]

What about those who have a 'pro hole" agenda?

Should The Government Stop Dumping Money Into A Giant Hole?

[HowardRoark]

So, I was talking to a guy I know today, a retired professor from Harvard no less, about the economy. He was all a twitter because the new leadership coming in was going to do “big things.” He thought it would be a great idea if the government would bail out GM and then force them to build all kinds of alternative fuel vehicles. I asked a very simple, polite question that left him speechless and dumfounded.

“What if nobody buys these cars?”

[Freak Out]

So, I was talking to a guy I know today, a retired professor from Harvard no less, about the economy. He was all a twitter because the new leadership coming in was going to do “big things.” He thought it would be a great idea if the government would bail out GM and then force them to build all kinds of alternative fuel vehicles. I asked a very simple, polite question that left him speechless and dumfounded.

“What if nobody buys these cars?”

I'm not sure what cars sales are at right now but I know it's down. Very few large "private" vehicles are moving off the lot but smaller cars are moving.....which is a reversal of trends in AK. Commercial vehicles sales are gloomy to say the least. If nobody has money to buy food they sure as hell are not going to buy a new car..even if it is green. Unless you are living big on government handouts and can afford to buy a Cadillac like the brothers can.

[bobblehead]

So, I was talking to a guy I know today, a retired professor from Harvard no less, about the economy. He was all a twitter because the new leadership coming in was going to do “big things.” He thought it would be a great idea if the government would bail out GM and then force them to build all kinds of alternative fuel vehicles. I asked a very simple, polite question that left him speechless and dumfounded.

“What if nobody buys these cars?”

You mean he didn't say that barry would mandate that those would be the only cars for sale?? surprising.

Bottom line is that we need to let the failures fail and someone else will begin making cars we want to buy....and doing it better.

[Bossman641]

So, I was talking to a guy I know today, a retired professor from Harvard no less, about the economy. He was all a twitter because the new leadership coming in was going to do “big things.” He thought it would be a great idea if the government would bail out GM and then force them to build all kinds of alternative fuel vehicles. I asked a very simple, polite question that left him speechless and dumfounded.

“What if nobody buys these cars?”

You mean he didn't say that barry would mandate that those would be the only cars for sale?? surprising.

Bottom line is that we need to let the failures fail and someone else will begin making cars we want to buy....and doing it better.

I agree. At some point you have to let the businesses who have made bad deals or bad decisions fail. It's how the market is meant to work. Sure, it will be much worse off in the short run, but unless there are going to be SERIOUS changes all this is is throwing money at a problem that would just arise again further down the road.