The Inside Story of How the NFL's Plan for Its 1st Openly Gay Player Fell Apart

[pbmax]

And why would it have to be a couple fags promoting prostates? Because it would make sense because they like butt sex? You mention the Jordy and his wife again being used for advertising, again. Has it crossed your mind that advertising is about connecting with as large an audience as possible... like maybe the 90-95% heterosexual audience instead of some evil cabal to keep fags off the jumbotron?



Need. There's that language again. Media whirlwind? And who's going to be the driving force behind that whirlwind? Because it's not going to be your massive shadow network of national gay hating groups. Again, the only people this is important to is the very ones who claim it's not important. But go ahead and serve up your sacrificial gay football player to months of talk about his sexuality because... why again? Oh, that's right, the "silence." And by "silence" you mean a name. Because we know there are gay players. The only difference is I don't need to know their name or have them serve as a token symbol for other people's purposes.

The audience was 90-95 percent white. Should they not have put Randall Cobb up there to sell the Packer Pro Shop?

If you choose to include family members to promote whatever the Packers are selling, then all families should be eligible to be awkward on camera. But it won't happen for a gay player's family until someone publicly acknowledges that such a thing exists. Even if the presence of gay men would clearly help sell Packer Truck Nuts for prostate research.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Going back to Kluwe, I think he's an attention whore. He lost his podium on which to speak due to not being on an NFL roster and now he's needing a way to be relevant to a topic that means a lot to him.

Personally, I think he simply got cut because over the last 4 years of his career he was an avg to below avg punter (ranked 15, 21,13, 22 in avg yds for those years) and given he had 9 games in a dome each year he should have frankly been much better (8 home, 1 at Det). As everyone knows, you can get cut at any time from an NFL roster for really any reason. The Vikes cut Longwell the same way by drafting someone when it was clear they could do better at the position. His well-written article on Deadspin glosses over that he wasn't a very good punter. Sure he can bring up that he's the best punter in Vikings history, but that's not much to brag about given that Vikings punters haven't been all that great in the past and that compared to the rest of the league he was decidedly average at best. Of course people are going to present themselves in the best light possible when going over how they feel they have been wronged. Doesn't mean it's the complete truth.

Living up here in MN, I guess I kinda got tired of his schtick a long time ago so I may see him differently than others.

[woodbuck27]

You, sir, are as cowardly as you are insincerely repetitive in your "contributions" to this discussion. You hide behind your demented claim of "manners" and "decency" just like you hide behind your equally perverted claims of "tolerance." Those are not insults, they are assessments. Based on your posts, not on any mental condition I would childishly and ignorantly try to attribute to you. No one is angry. You confuse the conviction of logic for anger because you have no intellectual sense of purpose or direction, and you find your feet quickly slipping on the crumbling footing on which you stand, so you panic and mistake confidence for aggression.

Does that meet your fucking manners requirement? Can you bend your mind back to the topic without throwing a hissy fit, or will you simply continue to toss labels around to avoid having to analyze your own flawed thinking? Just wondering, because you really haven't addressed the shortcomings, or even the most basic purpose, of your position.

If you ever came to my face I'd demonstrate just how cowardly I am mate.

You might get an alarming surprize.

Do I have to kick your ass here again? I find that about as satisfying as crushing an ant beneath my feet.

** " you hide behind your equally perverted claims of "tolerance.".. " SkinBasket

Since when is a tolerant fair approach towards other people's freedoms and lives a perverted position? Clearly that's where I stand on the basic topic of GAY Rights and related to the NFL present day acceptance of such.

Spin your web of deceit SkinBasket. Your game has always been old. Your bravado hollow.

Do you need to be slammed to satisfy some personal masochistic need? I cannot engage you in that. I'm too kind. I'm no psychologist as much as I do recognize your pain.

" you find your feet quickly slipping on the crumbling footing on which you stand.." SkinBasket

Your being really tricky there SkinBasket. Are you serious. You can't be. If you are you have all my sincerest sympathy.

You make a mockery of yourself in this contradiction of what I AM.

If there's one thing I'm very sure of it's my position regarding the rights of all men and women. I'm firmly convinced, that my fairness is a correct stance. I totally respected and learned from people that life blessed me with. People that were guided in their daily lives with a focus on decency.

Do you know what decency means SkinBasket? Can you relate to that?

You can go on posting nonsense in an undignified manner. I'm more tolerant than some posters here that would simply laugh at you. I won't allow you to run off with your common bullshit. I feel terrible for you SkinBasket.

Don't go on slamming me in terms of the tolerance I wish all people had. That's going to get you nothing but the back of my hand Mate.

[woodbuck27]

You, sir, are as cowardly as you are insincerely repetitive in your "contributions" to this discussion. You hide behind your demented claim of "manners" and "decency" just like you hide behind your equally perverted claims of "tolerance." Those are not insults, they are assessments. Based on your posts, not on any mental condition I would childishly and ignorantly try to attribute to you. No one is angry. You confuse the conviction of logic for anger because you have no intellectual sense of purpose or direction, and you find your feet quickly slipping on the crumbling footing on which you stand, so you panic and mistake confidence for aggression.

Does that meet your fucking manners requirement? Can you bend your mind back to the topic without throwing a hissy fit, or will you simply continue to toss labels around to avoid having to analyze your own flawed thinking? Just wondering, because you really haven't addressed the shortcomings, or even the most basic purpose, of your position.

By the way..I'll add this:

Don't even imagine this is going to turn into some "Dick Swinging Contest" between you and I.

I don't entertain such as that would be beneath my standard of sincere confidence in terms of the levels I've often observed you crashing to.

I don't waste my time.

[Guiness]

Going back to Kluwe, I think he's an attention whore. He lost his podium on which to speak due to not being on an NFL roster and now he's needing a way to be relevant to a topic that means a lot to him.

Personally, I think he simply got cut because over the last 4 years of his career he was an avg to below avg punter (ranked 15, 21,13, 22 in avg yds for those years) and given he had 9 games in a dome each year he should have frankly been much better (8 home, 1 at Det). As everyone knows, you can get cut at any time from an NFL roster for really any reason. The Vikes cut Longwell the same way by drafting someone when it was clear they could do better at the position. His well-written article on Deadspin glosses over that he wasn't a very good punter. Sure he can bring up that he's the best punter in Vikings history, but that's not much to brag about given that Vikings punters haven't been all that great in the past and that compared to the rest of the league he was decidedly average at best. Of course people are going to present themselves in the best light possible when going over how they feel they have been wronged. Doesn't mean it's the complete truth.

Living up here in MN, I guess I kinda got tired of his schtick a long time ago so I may see him differently than others.

As mentioned earlier, I think you're right that they just wanted a punter upgrade...you don't spent a draft pick on one unless you see a player you think is Pro Bowl worthy. However, I wouldn't write off his comments about Priefer too quickly.

He's got a lawyer and there's going to be an investigation - I'm not sure what they can investigate, sounds like a 'he said he said' thing, but I guess some others might have overheard it.

[woodbuck27]

Going back to Kluwe, I think he's an attention whore. He lost his podium on which to speak due to not being on an NFL roster and now he's needing a way to be relevant to a topic that means a lot to him.

Personally, I think he simply got cut because over the last 4 years of his career he was an avg to below avg punter (ranked 15, 21,13, 22 in avg yds for those years) and given he had 9 games in a dome each year he should have frankly been much better (8 home, 1 at Det). As everyone knows, you can get cut at any time from an NFL roster for really any reason. The Vikes cut Longwell the same way by drafting someone when it was clear they could do better at the position. His well-written article on Deadspin glosses over that he wasn't a very good punter. Sure he can bring up that he's the best punter in Vikings history, but that's not much to brag about given that Vikings punters haven't been all that great in the past and that compared to the rest of the league he was decidedly average at best. Of course people are going to present themselves in the best light possible when going over how they feel they have been wronged. Doesn't mean it's the complete truth.

Living up here in MN, I guess I kinda got tired of his schtick a long time ago so I may see him differently than others.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chris-kluwe-former-viking-says-he-was-fired-for-supporting-same-sex-marriages/

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10232522/chris-kluwe-former-member-minnesota-vikings-says-was-cut-due-views

http://www.dothanfirst.com/story/extra-points-kluwe-burns-his-nfl-bridge/d/story/VN0_fVFeOESOoWJlNvW3DQ

The issue isn't any longer about **Chris Kluwe and punting competency. Was he decent enough or not in that regard.

This is a story regarding the TRUTH behind certain claims on behalf of Chris Kluwe against people employed in or formerly employed in (former Viking HC Leslie Frazier) the Minnesots Viking Organization.

This is a story of Chris Kluwe's whistle blowing that might have left him unemployable for any NFL team. At the same time may have as a result curtailed the career aspirations or potential of one of those accused or Viking ST's coordinator Mike Priefer.

This story is about claims of intolerance.

This story is about Chris Kluwe's claims of discrimination, non-support and bigotry in regards to his position (views) on "same sex marriage". That he was a victim of homophobic remarks by the Minnesota Vikings Mike Priefer.

It's about positions he claims were made by people in the Viking organization that gave him opposition to his views in an improper manner. It's about a claim of "non-support from his Head Coach (Leslie Frazier) which contradicted the Minnesota Viking Team Owner's position of support for him. A Claim of the shocking bigotry on behalf of the Vikings ST Coach Mike Priefer .

" He (Chris Kluwe ) says in 2012, Vikings owner Zygi Wilf supported his activism, but head coach Leslie Fraiser asked him to stop and special teams coach Mike Priefer became openly hostile. In his letter, Kluwe calls Fraiser a coward and Priefer a bigot. " From LINK

** Chris Kluwe is a married father with two daughters. Kluwe and his wife 'Isabel' had their first daughter in July 2008, and their second in 2010.

GO PACK GO !

[Cheesehead Craig]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chris-kl...sex-marriages/

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10232522/chris-kluwe-former-member-minnesota-vikings-says-was-cut-due-views

http://www.dothanfirst.com/story/extra-points-kluwe-burns-his-nfl-bridge/d/story/VN0_fVFeOESOoWJlNvW3DQ

The issue isn't any longer about **Chris Kluwe and punting competency. Was he decent enough or not in that regard.

This story is about claims of intolerance.

This story is about Chris Kluwe's claims of discrimination, non-support and bigotry in regards to his position (views) on "same sex marriage". That he was a victim of homophobic remarks by Vikings special teams coordinator Mike Priefer.

It's about positions he claims were made by people in the Viking organization that gave him opposition to his views in an improper manner. It's about a claim of "non-support from his Head Coach (Leslie Frazier) which contradicted the Minnesota Viking Team Owner's position of support for him. A Claim of the shocking bigotry on behalf of the Vikings ST Coach Mike Priefer .

" He (Chris Kluwe ) says in 2012, Vikings owner Zygi Wilf supported his activism, but head coach Leslie Fraiser asked him to stop and special teams coach Mike Priefer became openly hostile. In his letter, Kluwe calls Fraiser a coward and Priefer a bigot. " From LINK

** Chris Kluwe is a married father with two daughters. Kluwe and his wife 'Isabel' had their first daughter in July 2008, and their second in 2010.

GO PACK GO !

I'm aware of what the issue is about Woody. I just feel there is more to his motives than he claims. Getting cooberation on his stories of what happened now, so many months ago is going to be difficult. Like others have said here, getting some witness to come forward and agree with everything would certainly change things. It very much is a "he said - he said" situation at this time in regards to the ST coach.

Frasier was under no obligation to agree with Wilf. Wilf can look at it as yes, he's helping promote a cause he agrees with but also it's getting the Vikings franchise more exposure and that's good for business. Wilf didn't have to keep answering questions about him, so it was less of a hassle to him and better for the overall image of the team. Frasier is trying to run an entire football team and has to now deal with many questions about his punter of all people. He was asked quite a bit about it as I heard many radio snippets about it up here. Having to put so much time and energy dealing with the one person (a punter at that) is not the best use of time for a coach and I can totally see why he would just want the situation to go away as easily as possible.

[SkinBasket]

The audience was 90-95 percent white. Should they not have put Randall Cobb up there to sell the Packer Pro Shop?

If you choose to include family members to promote whatever the Packers are selling, then all families should be eligible to be awkward on camera. But it won't happen for a gay player's family until someone publicly acknowledges that such a thing exists. Even if the presence of gay men would clearly help sell Packer Truck Nuts for prostate research.

Was Randall Cobb's wife/girlfriend/hooker with him? Do you know he's not gay? If he is, but chooses not to tell you, does that make him less of a person? I'm assuming Mrs Nelson was included in the messege because she's presumably got titties, not because she's straight.

Why aren't you interested in knowing that fisters exist in the league? Why shouldn't asphyxial mastrubaters' right to exist in public be of such grave concern as you show for homosexuality? Again, you've chosen a sexual aspect of someone's life and decided we all need to know about it. Why just that one, and not others? After all, these men are not defined by their sexual behavior. That we both agree on.

[SkinBasket]

If there's one thing I'm very sure of it's my position regarding the rights of all men and women. I'm firmly convinced, that my fairness is a correct stance.

Please. The only thing you're concerned with is the "rights" of anyone who agrees with your beliefs. Your nobility is foolishness and your tolerance as hollow as your wacky threats, which hardly seem to be mannerly. But don't worry, I'm a charitable man, so if ever we do meet, I'll still drop a nickel in your cup. And no, that's not a gay thing.

PS: I'm guessing you're not going to answer any of the questions I've asked that might give any kind of meaning to your position, other than to keep repeating that you're position is superior because you are right. Must be nice to be infallible in your own mind.

[woodbuck27]

I'm aware of what the issue is about Woody. I just feel there is more to his motives than he claims. Getting cooberation on his stories of what happened now, so many months ago is going to be difficult. Like others have said here, getting some witness to come forward and agree with everything would certainly change things. It very much is a "he said - he said" situation at this time in regards to the ST coach.

Frasier was under no obligation to agree with Wilf. Wilf can look at it as yes, he's helping promote a cause he agrees with but also it's getting the Vikings franchise more exposure and that's good for business. Wilf didn't have to keep answering questions about him, so it was less of a hassle to him and better for the overall image of the team. Frasier is trying to run an entire football team and has to now deal with many questions about his punter of all people. He was asked quite a bit about it as I heard many radio snippets about it up here. Having to put so much time and energy dealing with the one person (a punter at that) is not the best use of time for a coach and I can totally see why he would just want the situation to go away as easily as possible.

Hi:

I'm not in any position to try to determine who said what or I choose a neutral position in this as you accurately put it:

He said ... He said.

I've a pretty good idea where this will go in the end. My position there may border on cynicism. I hope I'm surprized in terms of where I feel this case deserves to arrive.

As an NFL fan I'm interested in seeing where this specific Chris Kluwe case ends up. I hope it progresses or somehow aids a finding of an NFL formal position and equal rights for all.

[SkinBasket]

By the way..I'll add this:

Don't even imagine this is going to turn into some "Dick Swinging Contest" between you and I.

Friend, if you think this is any kind of contest, you're suffering from delusions of grandeur.

If you mean to say you think the tone of this conversation is somehow low brow and confrontational, might I suggest you stop attempting to threatenme. It might improve your disposition and make you look less of a wank.

[woodbuck27]

Please. The only thing you're concerned with is the "rights" of anyone who agrees with your beliefs. Your nobility is foolishness and your tolerance as hollow as your wacky threats, which hardly seem to be mannerly. But don't worry, I'm a charitable man, so if ever we do meet, I'll still drop a nickel in your cup. And no, that's not a gay thing.

PS: I'm guessing you're not going to answer any of the questions I've asked that might give any kind of meaning to your position, other than to keep repeating that you're position is superior because you are right. Must be nice to be infallible in your own mind.

Ahh SkinBasket you lose so predictably.

When your obsessions with your pornographic mind declines to meet some common sense.... post me.

[pbmax]

Was Randall Cobb's wife/girlfriend/hooker with him? Do you know he's not gay? If he is, but chooses not to tell you, does that make him less of a person? I'm assuming Mrs Nelson was included in the messege because she's presumably got titties, not because she's straight.

Why aren't you interested in knowing that fisters exist in the league? Why shouldn't asphyxial mastrubaters' right to exist in public be of such grave concern as you show for homosexuality? Again, you've chosen a sexual aspect of someone's life and decided we all need to know about it. Why just that one, and not others? After all, these men are not defined by their sexual behavior. That we both agree on.

At least we can get down to the nub of the problem, as it were.

Because I am no more concerned about someone's homosexuality than I am Jordy Nelson's heterosexuality. The do not reveal paradigm you appear to prefer only ignores one subset of all the groups you have mentioned.

Fisters, asphyxiators and the rest of the fetishizers don't have to hide their girlfriend or wife. Only their boyfriend or husband.

[mraynrand]

Can all of you take this conversation to a bathhouse? The rest of us are tired of seeing this thread show up on our screens.

I suggested taking the specific discussion of gay behavior and related issues to FYI, but the discussion of a gay NFL player coming out is a totally legitimate and relevant topic of conversation, especially since it centered around Aaron Rodgers. It's just a thread title that you have to ignore; I have a hard time believing that your seeing the thread title really damages your psyche so much that you can't take it any more than any other annoying thread. Stop clicking on it and posting in it, is my suggestion for you, much like I suggested for all the people who hated the threads with "Favre" in the title.

[woodbuck27]

At least we can get down to the nub of the problem, as it were.

Because I am no more concerned about someone's homosexuality than I am Jordy Nelson's heterosexuality. The do not reveal paradigm you appear to prefer only ignores one subset of all the groups you have mentioned.

Fisters, asphyxiators and the rest of the fetishizers don't have to hide their girlfriend or wife. Only their boyfriend or husband.

Originally Posted by SkinBasket

Was Randall Cobb's wife/girlfriend/hooker with him? Do you know he's not gay? If he is, but chooses not to tell you, does that make him less of a person? I'm assuming Mrs Nelson was included in the messege because she's presumably got titties, not because she's straight.

Why aren't you interested in knowing that fisters exist in the league? Why shouldn't asphyxial mastrubaters' right to exist in public be of such grave concern as you show for homosexuality? Again, you've chosen a sexual aspect of someone's life and decided we all need to know about it. Why just that one, and not others? After all, these men are not defined by their sexual behavior. That we both agree on.

Do we need "a Sex Ed. Thread" @ Packerrats?

Would that be Come On acceptable?

If so SkinBasket I nominate 'you' as the Professor 'the ALL Knowing Guru' of all things sexually bizarre, sick and perverted. The translation of which is based on one's personal view of normal to him/her. Did I leave any other ie a distinct entity out. If so I apologize.