OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[retailguy]

I got it. You can't be a "football" fan, you must be a "packer" fan.

what a bunch of RUBBISH.

I really dislike Favre for how he has handled this debacle, but telling folks that they can't enjoy his play on the football field is ASININE.

I enjoy all types of football games and teams. I bleed green/gold but I like plenty of people that when they beat Green Bay "hurt" the team.

What a stupid, stupid point of view.

Nobody said anything about not enjoying his play but if you want him to succeed wouldn't his and MN's success affect the fortunes of the Packers?

WHO CARES? Really. It's a game. I want to see them win as much as you do, but if they don't, who really cares?

Here is the point. You and your ilk have been shouting down all the "favre defenders" for a couple of years now. It's like the guy should be banished to the fucking siberian wilderness for the rest of his life.

Did he behave like a stupid fuck on his way out of town? You bet. Did he deserve some tongue lashing and criticism? Yes, he earned that. But the day he waltzed off to NY and the Packers got a 3rd round pick, he owed GB NOTHING. No loyalty, no money, no support, no cheering, NOTHING.

This was Favre's job. The same way coaches get a job, and switch uniforms at will. Favre is no more loyal to GB than McCarthy or Thompson were to SF or Seattle. When the pay stops, so does the loyalty. Favre grew up in MISSISSIPPI. I doubt he was a "fan" growing up. Why should he have been?

I enjoy watching Favre play. I don't care whether the Vikings win or lose. I don't care if the Packers can't win, WHO WINS. It doesn't matter.

You know what I see the problem as? The division in this forum. Lots of people have left. SOME have left for reasons I don't know, and some have left for reasons that I DO KNOW. Because I asked them.

I miss Rastak. When I went to a Vikings game a few years back, as part of my 32 stadium tour, I reached out to him. He helped me with hotel & restaurant recommendations, and even invited me out for a beer. My schedule didn't permit that, but I'd have certainly taken him up on it if it had. I cannot tell you what a quality guy he is. I miss chatting with him here. He left because of this forums reaction to Brett Favre. He left because people quit talking and jabbing with him over the Vikings and started giving him personal insults if he didn't accept their point of view. The vitriole directed at his team, the team HE grew up with, drove him away. 10k posts. Gone. Because of stupid personal bullshit.

I miss grnbay007. What a quality person. She loves the Packers. I had the privilege of serving as a moderator with her in the early days. She left because of the Brett Favre bashing around here. She still enjoys watching him play, even though she is a packer fan. No room for that here unless you like the personal insults and the criticism. I miss chatting with her. She had quality things to say and points to add. She doesn't say them anymore, because she's tired of being attacked and understandably has gotten a bit gunshy. I can really understand why.

I miss Bretsky. I had the privilege to meet him on a trip to Green Bay. What a quality guy. A packer fan through and through. Isn't anything he wouldn't do for a fellow packer fan. His favorite piece of Packer memorabilia is his vintage Favre all pro jersey which he wore with pride to the Packers/Falcons game in 2008, AFTER Favre left. I enjoyed chatting with him in the romper room and via PM about personal finance and the role it plays in our lives. He doesn't come here anymore because of the personal attacks and insults relating to Favre and those who can't stand him. What a loss for this place. I also had the privilege of serving with him as moderator. Was there ever a better one? Not that I've seen.

I miss woodbuck. He's a nut, but I like him too. His skin is a bit tougher than most, but is there anyone who is more attacked about his Favre views than woody? I've talked with him via PM's and email. Played survival pool and pro pickem with him for several years. I get to NE Canada? I'm calling him and inviting him to dinner. I miss reading a long rambling woody posts about his passion. We don't get many any longer because of all the personal vitriole spewed by the intelligence challenged idiots that are left here. He's still here, albeit it's a rarity.

I've personally met about 25 people that post here. I've asked for advice each time I've visited their area. When my company offered a relocation to Alaska 18 months ago, I reached out to Freak Out, who was very helpful with information. Had the privilege to meet him in GB also. When I visited Baltimore, Ziggy was very helpful with a list of things to do and a great italian place in the inner harbor. I'm grateful they still come around here, although it's not as common as it used to be.

Here's the final point, Pugger. These WERE quality people and they're now gone or almost gone over the Favre bullshit that permeates this forum. When I make a trip to Tampa on my stadium tour, I won't be calling you. I'll be asking the conceirge at my hotel. When I visit the stadiums or towns of the rest of the "bashing crowd", I won't be calling them either. If you left tomorrow, Pugger, I would not miss you. There is no room in your world for an alternate opinion.

This is why I hate Brett Favre. His legacy has ruined this forum with the anger that he instills in a minority few Packer fans who are INCAPABLE of keeping their personal feelings to themselves about a very painful issue and are also INCAPABLE of moving past it. They're weak and loudmouthed. It happens.

The only exception I have is Justin Harrell. I just can't quit the guy. I had the privilege to meet him in GB too, and I'll look him up and share a beer with him next time I'm there. We'll always disagree about Favre, but I know enough about him, that I'm willing to overlook it.

I miss several of my virtual friends. If I didn't mention you, I apologize, but this post is approaching Woodbuck length and I must stop.

[RashanGary]

I'll tell a personal story. I was at work today. I have this policy of never hitting my kids. Call me a wimpy liberal, whatever.

There are a couple people talking about how they spank their kids, then they're saying, "and those parents who think they have perfect childeren are so full of it. ooohhh I neeevvverrr hit my kids. . . . ."

That is very similar to the stuff that happens here, the sarcasm. I work in the civil engineering field. It's a very traditional, conservative area of work, at least in my experience it is. My thinking is loosy goosy and in the minority. There was a time when I would get really upset that I was outnumbered by people doing something that's obviously meant as a jab. Sure, it's protecting themselves by putting me down, but regardless, there is a conscious effort to let me know they think my thinking is ridiculous. This was in person, face to face, so it's a different level than the internet.

Today, when I heard people saying that, I stood up and said, "I've never hit my kids." I said, "I would never hit anyone smaller than me and the people bigger than me, I wouldn't hit them either because I'd get my ass kicked, so I guess I just don't believe in hitting". You know what? I smiled inside because I'm at a point in my life where I really don't care what other people think of me, of my opinions or anything really. I'm in search of the truth, I love to hear differing opinions, but if they don't change my opinion, there is no amount of insults attached to it that are going to get under my skin. Well, for now that is. I'm sure a day will come where stress arises and I don't handle things well that I sink back into letting others opinions effect me, but in the healthy state I am now, it can't faze me.

So if there are Favre fans who left because they are so upset that they couldn't handle it. My advice would be to let it roll off. That's life. We can't control other peoples opinions about us or anything else. Do your individual best, always strive to learn and be better, but when you disagree, just let it roll off whether there is an insult attached or not. And the people who have to insult, they'll slowly lose respect. I've lost some here for doing exactly that. Over time, we'll see. I have a feeling that 5 years from now some of the same people I knew on here 5 years ago are going to have completely different opinions of me. I think I'll be more respected and I sort of look forward to that, but I didn't get where I am already and where I'm going by controlling anything other than myself. The more I realize that, the happier I get.

I've never been a master of the drama game though. Some people have become masters of it. Storming off, throwing fits, etc. . . It's all part of the game. So many people play it, it's almost reality. I've found a way out, but that's only because I stink at it. I always knew something was wrong with how we (people) communicate a lot of the time. I could never put my finger on it, but someone showed me to a different way of thinking. It's been sort of relieving the last few weeks for me. We'll see in a couple years though. Like Justin Harrell's back is chronic, we'll see if my hurt spirit is chronic. I'm just getting started. I feel like I'm through preseason game 3 and feel great!

[mraynrand]

Retail, that was a huge hunk 'o crap, even if there was some truth to it.

[Patler]

Redacted, but I refer to the whole long post.

It has not been nearly as one sided as you imply. What changed was the pro-Favre crowd has grown smaller over time through attrition and conversion. Now, primarily they use the persecution argument, as you have.

Many (not all) of the staunchest advocates on both sides have been utterly unreasonable in accepting the view point of the others, or even in making logical arguments a good part of the time. But it is that way everywhere. Nothing unique about what has happened here.

I, for one, would thoroughly enjoy a rational discussion about the Favre saga. We have managed to do it briefly at times, but it always degrades into the same old comments from BOTH sides. Oh well, maybe in 20 years or so (assuming he actually DOES retire within the next 5 years. )

[mraynrand]

Good post Patler.

I just checked out some other forums. This place is tame compared to the anti-Favre vitriol on some of the other forums. I just don't get it - I liked watching Favre play for the Jets, and I appreciate his talents, but I can't stand watching him play for the Vikings. So what? I'm going to continue to evaluate him fairly, hate the Vikings, and hope Favre gets his ass handed to him until he quits!!!! This is football, not the glee club!

Retail, I miss Bretsky too - maybe we can have some more discussion of his girl-on-girl fantasies along with his hurt feelings about Favre criticism.

The guy I respect with regard to Favre love is Nutz - guy tells you what he thinks and is undaunted. Go Nutz!

[retailguy]

Just a short rebuttal and then I'm done. The focus seems to be on either "hurt feelings" or "can't handle the criticism". I'm sure that's a small part of it. But the bigger part, that seems to be missed is the attitude of "Why bother?" or "why hang out there?". It's just more of the same old BS. Let's go somewhere else where I can discuss things, and not be criticized.

There used to be a place for both POV, but on this issue there isn't.

I brought up 3 folks that I know their reasons for leaving, or at least believe that I do. What about all the occasional folks that used to show up here that are also gone? Why did they leave? Anyone want to hazard a guess?

That's what I'm saying. Those that "stuck around" largely have an "anti Favre" mentality. Do you really enjoy just talking with yourselves? Because that's all that are left right now. At least when the others were here, you had an opportunity for "discussion". Not much of that here anymore.... because you drove them off, I believe. You believe what you want.

Patler, your points are duly noted. My perspective comes from watching the battle. I'm one of the few that are so sick and tired of Favre, yet enjoy watching him play. It's an odd position to be in. I spent a whole lot more time talking about non football related stuff in the early days.

I'd pay attention to football when something happened or it was in season. Now, there isn't much else to talk about. Because folks are GONE. No new members join, because the discussion sucks donkey balls. (to quote skinbasket). Why would you want to sign up?

It used to be inviting to come here, it isn't any longer. New folks that do come here aren't welcomed, they are "fresh meat" to argue with. Then they leave... No shit? Really? Why would they leave? The real question is why would they stay? I can't answer that. I really can't.

[retailguy]

Indulge me for one more thing.... Justin, enjoyed your story, I have a question. My daughters are 12 & 13. In the very early days, I spanked each of them once. I found that it was never necessary to do it again.

One got it in the car at a restaurant, and the other got it in her bedroom after an extremely difficult evening. Both were "bare hand" on the bottom and neither was done in anger.

From that point forward, one look was all it took and the behavior stopped.

So, am I as "irrational" as your co-workers? Or, might there be a middle ground you could be seeking?

[RashanGary]

I've never hit mine. I don't think it helps, but to each their own.

[Patler]

Patler, your points are duly noted. My perspective comes from watching the battle. I'm one of the few that are so sick and tired of Favre, yet enjoy watching him play. It's an odd position to be in. I spent a whole lot more time talking about non football related stuff in the early days.

I'd pay attention to football when something happened or it was in season. Now, there isn't much else to talk about. Because folks are GONE. No new members join, because the discussion sucks donkey balls. (to quote skinbasket). Why would you want to sign up?

It used to be inviting to come here, it isn't any longer. New folks that do come here aren't welcomed, they are "fresh meat" to argue with. Then they leave... No shit? Really? Why would they leave? The real question is why would they stay? I can't answer that. I really can't.

I have mostly avoided Favre discussions my self. I comment only until it goes back to what it always does, then I drop out of the discussion.

But why do you insist on finding some group to "blame"? That's just the way it is. Discussion boards go through countless personality changes. Many people who posted voraciously in the past do not now because they moved, got new jobs, lost their jobs, had more kids and older kids or had numerous other reasons for change their posting habits. I suspect that has changed the personality of the boards as much as the Favre arguments.

The team itself has changed dramatically, and that changes the nature of discussions.

Wanting a discussion board to stay as it was two or three years ago is just unreasonable. Needing to blame someone or some group for it changing is equally unreasonable, in my opinion.

[retailguy]

I've never hit mine. I don't think it helps, but to each their own.

My perspective is that there is a difference between "hit" and "spank". If you don't differentiate, then you made the right decision.

I have never "hit" my children either.

[falco]

FWIW RG, you are as much a part of the problem as those you lambast. Your attitude and treatment of others does this forum no favors. Just my opinion ...

[mraynrand]

Retail, Come on! This place has been very welcoming to the three new people that found it in the last year.

[Patler]

I've never hit mine. I don't think it helps, but to each their own.

I agree. Thumb screws are much more effective.

[Bossman641]

I got it. You can't be a "football" fan, you must be a "packer" fan.

what a bunch of RUBBISH.

I really dislike Favre for how he has handled this debacle, but telling folks that they can't enjoy his play on the football field is ASININE.

I enjoy all types of football games and teams. I bleed green/gold but I like plenty of people that when they beat Green Bay "hurt" the team.

What a stupid, stupid point of view.

Nobody said anything about not enjoying his play but if you want him to succeed wouldn't his and MN's success affect the fortunes of the Packers?

WHO CARES? Really. It's a game. I want to see them win as much as you do, but if they don't, who really cares?

Here is the point. You and your ilk have been shouting down all the "favre defenders" for a couple of years now. It's like the guy should be banished to the fucking siberian wilderness for the rest of his life.

Did he behave like a stupid fuck on his way out of town? You bet. Did he deserve some tongue lashing and criticism? Yes, he earned that. But the day he waltzed off to NY and the Packers got a 3rd round pick, he owed GB NOTHING. No loyalty, no money, no support, no cheering, NOTHING.

This was Favre's job. The same way coaches get a job, and switch uniforms at will. Favre is no more loyal to GB than McCarthy or Thompson were to SF or Seattle. When the pay stops, so does the loyalty. Favre grew up in MISSISSIPPI. I doubt he was a "fan" growing up. Why should he have been?

I enjoy watching Favre play. I don't care whether the Vikings win or lose. I don't care if the Packers can't win, WHO WINS. It doesn't matter.

You know what I see the problem as? The division in this forum. Lots of people have left. SOME have left for reasons I don't know, and some have left for reasons that I DO KNOW. Because I asked them.

I miss Rastak. When I went to a Vikings game a few years back, as part of my 32 stadium tour, I reached out to him. He helped me with hotel & restaurant recommendations, and even invited me out for a beer. My schedule didn't permit that, but I'd have certainly taken him up on it if it had. I cannot tell you what a quality guy he is. I miss chatting with him here. He left because of this forums reaction to Brett Favre. He left because people quit talking and jabbing with him over the Vikings and started giving him personal insults if he didn't accept their point of view. The vitriole directed at his team, the team HE grew up with, drove him away. 10k posts. Gone. Because of stupid personal bullshit.

I miss grnbay007. What a quality person. She loves the Packers. I had the privilege of serving as a moderator with her in the early days. She left because of the Brett Favre bashing around here. She still enjoys watching him play, even though she is a packer fan. No room for that here unless you like the personal insults and the criticism. I miss chatting with her. She had quality things to say and points to add. She doesn't say them anymore, because she's tired of being attacked and understandably has gotten a bit gunshy. I can really understand why.

I miss Bretsky. I had the privilege to meet him on a trip to Green Bay. What a quality guy. A packer fan through and through. Isn't anything he wouldn't do for a fellow packer fan. His favorite piece of Packer memorabilia is his vintage Favre all pro jersey which he wore with pride to the Packers/Falcons game in 2008, AFTER Favre left. I enjoyed chatting with him in the romper room and via PM about personal finance and the role it plays in our lives. He doesn't come here anymore because of the personal attacks and insults relating to Favre and those who can't stand him. What a loss for this place. I also had the privilege of serving with him as moderator. Was there ever a better one? Not that I've seen.

I miss woodbuck. He's a nut, but I like him too. His skin is a bit tougher than most, but is there anyone who is more attacked about his Favre views than woody? I've talked with him via PM's and email. Played survival pool and pro pickem with him for several years. I get to NE Canada? I'm calling him and inviting him to dinner. I miss reading a long rambling woody posts about his passion. We don't get many any longer because of all the personal vitriole spewed by the intelligence challenged idiots that are left here. He's still here, albeit it's a rarity.

I've personally met about 25 people that post here. I've asked for advice each time I've visited their area. When my company offered a relocation to Alaska 18 months ago, I reached out to Freak Out, who was very helpful with information. Had the privilege to meet him in GB also. When I visited Baltimore, Ziggy was very helpful with a list of things to do and a great italian place in the inner harbor. I'm grateful they still come around here, although it's not as common as it used to be.

Here's the final point, Pugger. These WERE quality people and they're now gone or almost gone over the Favre bullshit that permeates this forum. When I make a trip to Tampa on my stadium tour, I won't be calling you. I'll be asking the conceirge at my hotel. When I visit the stadiums or towns of the rest of the "bashing crowd", I won't be calling them either. If you left tomorrow, Pugger, I would not miss you. There is no room in your world for an alternate opinion.

This is why I hate Brett Favre. His legacy has ruined this forum with the anger that he instills in a minority few Packer fans who are INCAPABLE of keeping their personal feelings to themselves about a very painful issue and are also INCAPABLE of moving past it. They're weak and loudmouthed. It happens.

The only exception I have is Justin Harrell. I just can't quit the guy. I had the privilege to meet him in GB too, and I'll look him up and share a beer with him next time I'm there. We'll always disagree about Favre, but I know enough about him, that I'm willing to overlook it.

I miss several of my virtual friends. If I didn't mention you, I apologize, but this post is approaching Woodbuck length and I must stop.

I'm sorry RG but it goes both ways. Early on, the pro-Favre crowd was very loud and very in your face in their support of Favre. Does it suck that those people left? Of course. But for the life of me I can't figure out why these people would think this would be a safe haven to talk about Favre. I've never checked, but I'm sure there are plenty of message boards dedicated to supporting Favre. It is ridiculous to expect Favre not to be a heated topic. It is even more ridiculous to think that flaunting it and fanning the flames would be a smart thing to do.

I really don't understand your bolded point. As far as I know, you and Pugger have never had any trouble. You say she wouldn't be missed because she is against Favre?

You talk about having thick skin and allowing alternate viewpoints but apparently only when it comes to allowing Favre talk.

[RashanGary]

I don't want to get in a high and mighty discussion about spanking. I don't do it myself. I don't think it's the best way to work with a kid. People at my work were talking about how high and mighty and ridiculous people who don't spank their kids are. I disagreed and let their sarcasm roll off. People can do it their won way. They can disagree with me, I can disagree with them, but we go our own way and do our own version of the best. Whatever. Their insult was just something I was able to ignore. That was more my point, who cares what they think, who cares if they don't like my style, who cares if they don't believe in it. Goodbye, have a good day and in the end it will work out how it works out.