OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[Joemailman]

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle on the whole issue of wanting Favre to do well. I wouldn't want Favre to go out and have a 2005 type year. I'd feel bad for him if that happened. However, during a given week, I'm not going to be cheering for Favre to have a great game because that would increase the Vikings chances of winning. As long as the Vikings are the Packers chief divisional rival, I won't cheer for the Vikings quarterback to have a great game no matter who it is. Now if the Vikings winning a late season game against an NFC team would help the Packers gain playoff position, that's another story.

Of course, I also have Favre on one Fantasy Football team, so I have to hope he has a few good games.

[falco]

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle on the whole issue of wanting Favre to do well. I wouldn't want Favre to go out and have a 2005 type year. I'd feel bad for him if that happened. However, during a given week, I'm not going to be cheering for Favre to have a great game because that would increase the Vikings chances of winning. As long as the Vikings are the Packers chief divisional rival, I won't cheer for the Vikings quarterback to have a great game no matter who it is. Now if the Vikings winning a late season game against an NFC team would help the Packers gain playoff position, that's another story.

Of course, I also have Favre on one Fantasy Football team, so I have to hope he has a few good games.

Favre being on the vikes makes for good football; I wouldn't want it any other way.

[retailguy]

Patler, your points are duly noted. My perspective comes from watching the battle. I'm one of the few that are so sick and tired of Favre, yet enjoy watching him play. It's an odd position to be in. I spent a whole lot more time talking about non football related stuff in the early days.

I'd pay attention to football when something happened or it was in season. Now, there isn't much else to talk about. Because folks are GONE. No new members join, because the discussion sucks donkey balls. (to quote skinbasket). Why would you want to sign up?

It used to be inviting to come here, it isn't any longer. New folks that do come here aren't welcomed, they are "fresh meat" to argue with. Then they leave... No shit? Really? Why would they leave? The real question is why would they stay? I can't answer that. I really can't.

I have mostly avoided Favre discussions my self. I comment only until it goes back to what it always does, then I drop out of the discussion.

But why do you insist on finding some group to "blame"? That's just the way it is. Discussion boards go through countless personality changes. Many people who posted voraciously in the past do not now because they moved, got new jobs, lost their jobs, had more kids and older kids or had numerous other reasons for change their posting habits. I suspect that has changed the personality of the boards as much as the Favre arguments.

The team itself has changed dramatically, and that changes the nature of discussions.

Wanting a discussion board to stay as it was two or three years ago is just unreasonable. Needing to blame someone or some group for it changing is equally unreasonable, in my opinion.

Wow. You don't usually trot out generalizations, but if that's the way you think I guess it is.

I've been a member of a couple of acoustic guitar forums for the better part of 10 years. I've been through two or three moves with the Martin Guitar forum and many software changes and updates. I drive a Mercedes and have been a member there for well over 5 years. The membership there is largely static, and has been for a long long time. This place isn't "static" right now.

Yes, some people come and go. That's to be expected, however, the core doesn't. When you have a mass exodus, which this place has had, there are reasons for it. You don't agree with mine, that's fine. I'm sure some of them did move on for the reasons you discuss, but ALL of them? I find that difficult to believe.

But as Falco put it, it's my opinion, and in this case, I'm sticking with it.

[retailguy]

I don't want to get in a high and mighty discussion about spanking. I don't do it myself. I don't think it's the best way to work with a kid. People at my work were talking about how high and mighty and ridiculous people who don't spank their kids are. I disagreed and let their sarcasm roll off. People can do it their won way. They can disagree with me, I can disagree with them, but we go our own way and do our own version of the best. Whatever. Their insult was just something I was able to ignore. That was more my point, who cares what they think, who cares if they don't like my style, who cares if they don't believe in it. Goodbye, have a good day and in the end it will work out how it works out.

Justin, certainly wasn't trying to get into a "high and mighty" about spanking. My point was that sometimes there are multiple ways to do things and neither are wrong. Neither are right either for that matter. Circumstances make that determination.

You tend to live in a black and white world. I believe that in my 20's I did too. My world becomes increasingly gray as time moves on, and that's more than just my hair.

I wouldn't change one thing in raising these girls, including spanking, and I certainly don't begrudge you for choosing a different path. However, I was just driving at "right" and "wrong", and I think this example is a perfect illustration that finding either is a process and not a defined path.

[packerbacker1234]

IF AR keeps performing and not getting hurt for another season or two, people are going to start treating him exactly how we treated #4 for a long time.

What favre became personality wise is what we, the fans and media, turned him into, Yes, many fans wer enever completely sold on brett - they felt he was a good QB, but he just never learned from his mistakes.

AR seems like a stand up guy right now, he most likely is. Favre was a stand up guy for awhile too, facing real life issues with addiction and alcohol, and we all appreciated him more. We appreciate AR more because of how he has performed and what he has said in regards to following a legend.

The thing is, he is a QB. A really good QB, one of the best in the league right now. He is going to get special treatment, just like Brett, eventually. Peyton gets it, I am sure brees gets it. Does that mean his personality will be the same? Hardly, everyone is different.

I guess the point is that to expect a Brett Favre conversation to not happen at one of the biggest, most popular, Packer forums on the net when he was our guy for 16 years is just not being realistic. Are we to retreat to viking forums, jet forums (I did this for a bit, they had some really stand up fans), when we want to discuss #4? We talka obut other players all the time on the boards - we hav ea thread now on sidney rice and his hip, we've had threads on urlacher when he gets hurt, I think we had a thread on AP a couple years ago - we love talking about the other players in our division - Brett is one of them, and he us to be one of us.

Of course we are going to talk about him, I just don't get why it can't just be that "talking" - without personally insulting eachother just because we have a difference in opinion.

[Patler]

I've been a member of a couple of acoustic guitar forums for the better part of 10 years. I've been through two or three moves with the Martin Guitar forum and many software changes and updates. I drive a Mercedes and have been a member there for well over 5 years. The membership there is largely static, and has been for a long long time. This place isn't "static" right now.

Yes, some people come and go. That's to be expected, however, the core doesn't. When you have a mass exodus, which this place has had, there are reasons for it. You don't agree with mine, that's fine. I'm sure some of them did move on for the reasons you discuss, but ALL of them? I find that difficult to believe.

But as Falco put it, it's my opinion, and in this case, I'm sticking with it.

Geeze, you're comparing a sports board with guitar players and Mercedes drivers? I've been on numerous hockey boards, and the changes have been far more dramatic than what has happened here.

Do you really want a sports discussion board to be static? As fast as teams and coaches change, that isn't likely to happen.

As to the bold comment above, who said "all"? There you go with a "hot/cold" analysis, when "warm" is the answer. I recognized by my comment that some have left for the reasons you mentioned. So what? Many others have left for other reasons, too. That was my point. Even without the Favre matter, the board would have changed.

Quite frankly (apologies to Joe) this place was a lot more interesting when it had a home page, with articles, etc. But I never really expected that to last. Too much commitment required by too many different people. It was nice while it lasted.

[Bossman641]

IF AR keeps performing and not getting hurt for another season or two, people are going to start treating him exactly how we treated #4 for a long time.

What favre became personality wise is what we, the fans and media, turned him into, Yes, many fans wer enever completely sold on brett - they felt he was a good QB, but he just never learned from his mistakes.

AR seems like a stand up guy right now, he most likely is. Favre was a stand up guy for awhile too, facing real life issues with addiction and alcohol, and we all appreciated him more. We appreciate AR more because of how he has performed and what he has said in regards to following a legend.

The thing is, he is a QB. A really good QB, one of the best in the league right now. He is going to get special treatment, just like Brett, eventually. Peyton gets it, I am sure brees gets it. Does that mean his personality will be the same? Hardly, everyone is different.

I think you are projecting your feelings about Favre to the rest of the board, and Packer fans in general. I loved Favre, but would never defend him to the death the way others did. There has always been a difference between the staunchest Favre fans who defended his every interception and everyone else.

Personally, I hope AR never becomes like Favre, either in personality or playing style. The very thing that I respect the most about Rodgers, his work ethic, is the thing that turned me off on Favre. And in regards to their playing style, while Favre had more "wow" plays it is refreshing to have a QB who doesn't make you hold your breath everytime he unleashes a bomb.

[Patler]

IF AR keeps performing and not getting hurt for another season or two, people are going to start treating him exactly how we treated #4 for a long time.

What favre became personality wise is what we, the fans and media, turned him into, Yes, many fans wer enever completely sold on brett - they felt he was a good QB, but he just never learned from his mistakes.

AR seems like a stand up guy right now, he most likely is. Favre was a stand up guy for awhile too, facing real life issues with addiction and alcohol, and we all appreciated him more. We appreciate AR more because of how he has performed and what he has said in regards to following a legend.

The thing is, he is a QB. A really good QB, one of the best in the league right now. He is going to get special treatment, just like Brett, eventually. Peyton gets it, I am sure brees gets it. Does that mean his personality will be the same? Hardly, everyone is different.

I guess the point is that to expect a Brett Favre conversation to not happen at one of the biggest, most popular, Packer forums on the net when he was our guy for 16 years is just not being realistic. Are we to retreat to viking forums, jet forums (I did this for a bit, they had some really stand up fans), when we want to discuss #4? We talka obut other players all the time on the boards - we hav ea thread now on sidney rice and his hip, we've had threads on urlacher when he gets hurt, I think we had a thread on AP a couple years ago - we love talking about the other players in our division - Brett is one of them, and he us to be one of us.

Of course we are going to talk about him, I just don't get why it can't just be that "talking" - without personally insulting eachother just because we have a difference in opinion.

That is certainly true, players are affected by how we treat them, some a lot more than others. But I think they are affected more by how their coaches and team management treat them. Holmgren treated the young Favre with an iron hand. Sherman treated the middle-age Favre (football-wise), with kid gloves. I have always thought that MM inherited an aging Favre with an attitude created by the change from Holmgren to Sherman, and there wasn't much he could do about it. To try to change Favre at that point was a lost cause destined to create hard feelings on both sides.

The Favre thing exposed a lot of different opinions that people didn't know they had, and that some still refuse to admit. We had "staunch Packer fans" who openly admitted to wanting Favre to beat the Packers. Others were offended by a "Packer fan" who said that. Others who wanted the Packers to win but still cheered for Favre in other games were offended by those who now detest Favre in all things. The same thing happens when a winning team becomes a loser. True loyalties are exposed, be it team, player, coach, GM etc. and others take offense to whatever attitudes there are.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I've skipped the last 30 or so pages of this thread I think, but I was wondering something:

Favre is going into the Hall of Fame. Favre deserves to be in the Packers Hall of Fame. I'm not convinced that you can asshole your way out of either one with lofty accomplishments. The question is: do the Packers put him in immediately after the (I assume it to be a) 5 year waiting period after he retires (and unretires and retires and unretires and retires and unretires and retires) or do they wait longer until emotions have cooled?

[mngolf19]

I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle on the whole issue of wanting Favre to do well. I wouldn't want Favre to go out and have a 2005 type year. I'd feel bad for him if that happened. However, during a given week, I'm not going to be cheering for Favre to have a great game because that would increase the Vikings chances of winning. As long as the Vikings are the Packers chief divisional rival, I won't cheer for the Vikings quarterback to have a great game no matter who it is. Now if the Vikings winning a late season game against an NFC team would help the Packers gain playoff position, that's another story.

Of course, I also have Favre on one Fantasy Football team, so I have to hope he has a few good games.

Favre being on the vikes makes for good football; I wouldn't want it any other way.

Which is exactly how I felt when he was a Packer.

[Fritz]

I've skipped the last 30 or so pages of this thread I think, but I was wondering something:

Favre is going into the Hall of Fame. Favre deserves to be in the Packers Hall of Fame. I'm not convinced that you can asshole your way out of either one with lofty accomplishments. The question is: do the Packers put him in immediately after the (I assume it to be a) 5 year waiting period after he retires (and unretires and retires and unretires and retires and unretires and retires) or do they wait longer until emotions have cooled?

This is a great, great line. The use of "asshole" as a verb - genius.

My thinking is that Favre's number will be retired in Green Bay once Favre has actually retired and been retired, and after he either mellows toward Thompson or until Thompson is gone.

[Tony Oday]

I've skipped the last 30 or so pages of this thread I think, but I was wondering something:

Favre is going into the Hall of Fame. Favre deserves to be in the Packers Hall of Fame. I'm not convinced that you can asshole your way out of either one with lofty accomplishments. The question is: do the Packers put him in immediately after the (I assume it to be a) 5 year waiting period after he retires (and unretires and retires and unretires and retires and unretires and retires) or do they wait longer until emotions have cooled?

This is a great, great line. The use of "asshole" as a verb - genius.

My thinking is that Favre's number will be retired in Green Bay once Favre has actually retired and been retired, and after he either mellows toward Thompson or until Thompson is gone.

So since he "retired" 3 years ago after this season does that mean in two years he could be in the Hall?

[Pugger]

I got it. You can't be a "football" fan, you must be a "packer" fan.

what a bunch of RUBBISH.

I really dislike Favre for how he has handled this debacle, but telling folks that they can't enjoy his play on the football field is ASININE.

I enjoy all types of football games and teams. I bleed green/gold but I like plenty of people that when they beat Green Bay "hurt" the team.

What a stupid, stupid point of view.

Nobody said anything about not enjoying his play but if you want him to succeed wouldn't his and MN's success affect the fortunes of the Packers?

WHO CARES? Really. It's a game. I want to see them win as much as you do, but if they don't, who really cares?

Here is the point. You and your ilk have been shouting down all the "favre defenders" for a couple of years now. It's like the guy should be banished to the fucking siberian wilderness for the rest of his life.

Did he behave like a stupid fuck on his way out of town? You bet. Did he deserve some tongue lashing and criticism? Yes, he earned that. But the day he waltzed off to NY and the Packers got a 3rd round pick, he owed GB NOTHING. No loyalty, no money, no support, no cheering, NOTHING.

This was Favre's job. The same way coaches get a job, and switch uniforms at will. Favre is no more loyal to GB than McCarthy or Thompson were to SF or Seattle. When the pay stops, so does the loyalty. Favre grew up in MISSISSIPPI. I doubt he was a "fan" growing up. Why should he have been?

I enjoy watching Favre play. I don't care whether the Vikings win or lose. I don't care if the Packers can't win, WHO WINS. It doesn't matter.

You know what I see the problem as? The division in this forum. Lots of people have left. SOME have left for reasons I don't know, and some have left for reasons that I DO KNOW. Because I asked them.

I miss Rastak. When I went to a Vikings game a few years back, as part of my 32 stadium tour, I reached out to him. He helped me with hotel & restaurant recommendations, and even invited me out for a beer. My schedule didn't permit that, but I'd have certainly taken him up on it if it had. I cannot tell you what a quality guy he is. I miss chatting with him here. He left because of this forums reaction to Brett Favre. He left because people quit talking and jabbing with him over the Vikings and started giving him personal insults if he didn't accept their point of view. The vitriole directed at his team, the team HE grew up with, drove him away. 10k posts. Gone. Because of stupid personal bullshit.

I miss grnbay007. What a quality person. She loves the Packers. I had the privilege of serving as a moderator with her in the early days. She left because of the Brett Favre bashing around here. She still enjoys watching him play, even though she is a packer fan. No room for that here unless you like the personal insults and the criticism. I miss chatting with her. She had quality things to say and points to add. She doesn't say them anymore, because she's tired of being attacked and understandably has gotten a bit gunshy. I can really understand why.

I miss Bretsky. I had the privilege to meet him on a trip to Green Bay. What a quality guy. A packer fan through and through. Isn't anything he wouldn't do for a fellow packer fan. His favorite piece of Packer memorabilia is his vintage Favre all pro jersey which he wore with pride to the Packers/Falcons game in 2008, AFTER Favre left. I enjoyed chatting with him in the romper room and via PM about personal finance and the role it plays in our lives. He doesn't come here anymore because of the personal attacks and insults relating to Favre and those who can't stand him. What a loss for this place. I also had the privilege of serving with him as moderator. Was there ever a better one? Not that I've seen.

I miss woodbuck. He's a nut, but I like him too. His skin is a bit tougher than most, but is there anyone who is more attacked about his Favre views than woody? I've talked with him via PM's and email. Played survival pool and pro pickem with him for several years. I get to NE Canada? I'm calling him and inviting him to dinner. I miss reading a long rambling woody posts about his passion. We don't get many any longer because of all the personal vitriole spewed by the intelligence challenged idiots that are left here. He's still here, albeit it's a rarity.

I've personally met about 25 people that post here. I've asked for advice each time I've visited their area. When my company offered a relocation to Alaska 18 months ago, I reached out to Freak Out, who was very helpful with information. Had the privilege to meet him in GB also. When I visited Baltimore, Ziggy was very helpful with a list of things to do and a great italian place in the inner harbor. I'm grateful they still come around here, although it's not as common as it used to be.

Here's the final point, Pugger. These WERE quality people and they're now gone or almost gone over the Favre bullshit that permeates this forum. When I make a trip to Tampa on my stadium tour, I won't be calling you. I'll be asking the conceirge at my hotel. When I visit the stadiums or towns of the rest of the "bashing crowd", I won't be calling them either. If you left tomorrow, Pugger, I would not miss you. There is no room in your world for an alternate opinion.

This is why I hate Brett Favre. His legacy has ruined this forum with the anger that he instills in a minority few Packer fans who are INCAPABLE of keeping their personal feelings to themselves about a very painful issue and are also INCAPABLE of moving past it. They're weak and loudmouthed. It happens.

The only exception I have is Justin Harrell. I just can't quit the guy. I had the privilege to meet him in GB too, and I'll look him up and share a beer with him next time I'm there. We'll always disagree about Favre, but I know enough about him, that I'm willing to overlook it.

I miss several of my virtual friends. If I didn't mention you, I apologize, but this post is approaching Woodbuck length and I must stop.

If you look for me Tampa you'll be looking forever. Sorry if my wanting the QB of a divisional rival makes me out to be some sort of heartless meany or big Favre hater but I want the Packers to win and I do NOT want any of the other teams in the NFC North to win. I used to feel a lot of animosity towards Favre but now I don't care one way or another. I think he is only looking out for #1 and always has. I thought he was different than other elite athletes but he sure fooled me. But as long as he is wearing purple I want the Packers to pound him and the rest of the queens. Now that he no longer is a Packer he is just another player on a rival. I appreciate all he did when he was here but this isn't 2007.

[get louder at lambeau]

Is poor little retail getting picked on for no reason again? There there retail.

[mraynrand]

I want the Packers to win and I do NOT want any of the other teams in the NFC North to win. I used to feel a lot of animosity towards Favre but now I don't care one way or another. I think he is only looking out for #1 and always has. I thought he was different than other elite athletes but he sure fooled me. But as long as he is wearing purple I want the Packers to pound him and the rest of the queens. Now that he no longer is a Packer he is just another player on a rival. I appreciate all he did when he was here but this isn't 2007.

This is pretty much how I feel. Favre is a real talent and I enjoyed watching him, even with the Jets, but the Vikings are a bridge too far. I can't enjoy watching him play for them (and play well, dammit) because I want the Viking to lose, and lose badly, every time they play. That's what being a lifer Packer fan does to you. I don't grudge the BFFFs their enjoyment in watching Favre play, but that's not where I'm at, so don't expect the same from me. I'll enjoy it when he gets inducted into the HOF (assuming he doesn't make cheap shots at the Pack).