Rodgers >> Favre

[prsnfoto]

Quite honestly, I agree with the premise of this thread, and have been saying it for a couple of weeks. Despite a weak schedule and offensive teammates that aren't devoid a talent, Brett looks more like the 2006 version of Brett than the one that had close to a career year last year. Take out the Cards game and you'd have a ton of people thinking he's a washed up 39-year-old QB (9 TDs and 10 interceptions).

Actually, watching the Jets vs. K.C. yesterday, I thought he looked a lot more like the 2005 version - like at Philly. Very strange play calling - especially on some third and 1 calls. Bad judgment going deep. On some of those ugly plays, Favre almost looks like a caricature of his worst reputation. Funny thing was that without about 5-6 really bad plays, he played really well. It's like Favre has gone totally schizophrenic - good Favre most of the time and them BAM - here's the bad Favre chucking one up. Plus his arm strength has clearly diminished.

In fairness to Brett and as hard as this is for me to admit the Jets o-line is actually worse than the Packers and that is really fucking bad. One pick was a yee-haw, one he was hit and the other depends on who you listen to the announcers and obviously Brett felt his reciever stopped his route ending in a bad looking pick taken to the house. Rodgers has played well and ironically the QB would have not been the problem for the Pack this year, at the beginning of the season the schedule looked very hard in reality it shouldn't be both the Jets and the Pack are similar teams both have a shot at the playoffs because of their weak divisions and both ain't going anywhere if they get there. The good news for all us Packer fans is if TT can ever actually draft a real O-lineman and D-lineman the sky is the limit please no more WR's we are quite stocked there now!

So TT is doing a good job then?

Alan Faneca was the best free agent Guard last year. People were pissed that TT didn't go after him. Now you are admitting that the Jets line is worse than the Packers. So TT must have known what he was doing on passing on Faneca?

I'm not sure your logic is right. The Jets were supposed to have one of the best lines this year. It may have not turned out that way but on paper they were golden before the first snap of the season.

My logic is that TT has drafted at least 6 o-linemen and they haven't panned out yet but he has done a great job at drafting WR's. I never clamoured for Faneca because I knew TT would not sign him anyhow turns out he might have been right. My logic is that with Rodger's the Jets are probably 4-3 and with Favre the Packers are probably 4-3 the QB play is not the main concern on either franchise. I would argue that the Packer's roster has more talent to work with over all.

[Partial]

Different coaching staff totally different players, total roster overall since 2005. Anything else smart guy?

The point is. It's not the same team. It's not the same schedule. There aren't the same amount of injuries. The defenses aren't playing similarly. There's no telling if Favre would play like he did in 2006 or 2007. I've watched all of the Packer games and I've watched a majority of the Jets game, and it's pretty clear to me who is playing better. If you can't at least acknowledge that, then it's pretty useless to discuss.

I agree, but to the contrary, if you flip-flopped Rodgers and Favre onto the opposite teams, do you feel your opinion would stay the same? That is the point. I surely do not feel that way. The Packers are a far better team. Rodgers has to not screw it up. Favre has to create.

[Bossman641]

Different coaching staff totally different players, total roster overall since 2005. Anything else smart guy?

The point is. It's not the same team. It's not the same schedule. There aren't the same amount of injuries. The defenses aren't playing similarly. There's no telling if Favre would play like he did in 2006 or 2007. I've watched all of the Packer games and I've watched a majority of the Jets game, and it's pretty clear to me who is playing better. If you can't at least acknowledge that, then it's pretty useless to discuss.

I agree, but to the contrary, if you flip-flopped Rodgers and Favre onto the opposite teams, do you feel your opinion would stay the same? That is the point. I surely do not feel that way. The Packers are a far better team. Rodgers has to not screw it up. Favre has to create.

What exactly does Favre have to create? I'd say his statistics make it look like he is playing better than he actually is. He got a boatload of TD's against the Cardinals when the defense kept taking the ball away. Other than that he has been far from a playmaker.

[SkinBasket]

Where do the comparisions end?

(L*5+G*3)/10

Where L=length and G=girth. Full turgidity is assumed. Weight has been discounted due to the degree of difficultly involved with using a kitchen meat scale while attaining the desired balance so as to gain an accurate measurement.

SkinBasket=5.4

[mraynrand]

For whoever watched the Jets game, can you at least agree that Favre threw at least 3 or 4 really really bad and ill advised tosses (not even including the pick six). Some of that was bad playcalling (unless audibled to by Favre), and some of it was absolutely horrendous judgment by Favre. That's what I saw, and for the record, I really want to see Favre play well.

[RashanGary]

Jets D YPG 12th overall
Pack D YPG 16th overall
Advantage Jets

Jets D PPG 20th
Pack D PPG 17th
Advantage Pack, but many Favre turnovers probably contribute to Jets givng up points

Jets rushing YPG 15th
Packer rushing YPG 23rd
Advantage Jets

Packers QB Play > Jets QB play

the only thing that makes us equal is Rodgers playing better QB than their guy. Can't really use the "Jets are worse overall, so that is why Favre is playing worse" arguement here. The Packers are worse overall and Rodgers is still outplaying him.

[ND72]

Personally, I hate making comparisons like that. They just aren't real comparisons. For the most part, I do think Favre carried us last year, at least through most of the year. Is Rodgers carrying us this year? Some might say yes, some might say no. I'm going with what I've said all along. If Aaron Rodgers, plays the way Aaron Rodgers can play, manage the game, be smart, and complete passes, we'll be fine. And that's exactly what he's done. Minus the Tampa game, he has been one of the top QB's in the league this year. If we get our running game going, you might see the Packers explode much like last years team.

However...for us to be successful with Aaron, we need our defense to play like they did against Indy. Allow us to be careful and cautious and smart, and not have to take chances.

[cheesner]

Quite honestly, I agree with the premise of this thread, and have been saying it for a couple of weeks. Despite a weak schedule and offensive teammates that aren't devoid a talent, Brett looks more like the 2006 version of Brett than the one that had close to a career year last year. Take out the Cards game and you'd have a ton of people thinking he's a washed up 39-year-old QB (9 TDs and 10 interceptions).

Actually, watching the Jets vs. K.C. yesterday, I thought he looked a lot more like the 2005 version - like at Philly. Very strange play calling - especially on some third and 1 calls. Bad judgment going deep. On some of those ugly plays, Favre almost looks like a caricature of his worst reputation. Funny thing was that without about 5-6 really bad plays, he played really well. It's like Favre has gone totally schizophrenic - good Favre most of the time and them BAM - here's the bad Favre chucking one up. Plus his arm strength has clearly diminished.

In fairness to Brett and as hard as this is for me to admit the Jets o-line is actually worse than the Packers and that is really fucking bad. One pick was a yee-haw, one he was hit and the other depends on who you listen to the announcers and obviously Brett felt his reciever stopped his route ending in a bad looking pick taken to the house. Rodgers has played well and ironically the QB would have not been the problem for the Pack this year, at the beginning of the season the schedule looked very hard in reality it shouldn't be both the Jets and the Pack are similar teams both have a shot at the playoffs because of their weak divisions and both ain't going anywhere if they get there. The good news for all us Packer fans is if TT can ever actually draft a real O-lineman and D-lineman the sky is the limit please no more WR's we are quite stocked there now!

So TT is doing a good job then?

Alan Faneca was the best free agent Guard last year. People were pissed that TT didn't go after him. Now you are admitting that the Jets line is worse than the Packers. So TT must have known what he was doing on passing on Faneca?

I'm not sure your logic is right. The Jets were supposed to have one of the best lines this year. It may have not turned out that way but on paper they were golden before the first snap of the season.

My logic is that TT has drafted at least 6 o-linemen and they haven't panned out yet but he has done a great job at drafting WR's. I never clamoured for Faneca because I knew TT would not sign him anyhow turns out he might have been right. My logic is that with Rodger's the Jets are probably 4-3 and with Favre the Packers are probably 4-3 the QB play is not the main concern on either franchise. I would argue that the Packer's roster has more talent to work with over all.

Wolf was also a pathetic judge of OL talent as in all the years he was GM he only drafted one offensive linemen (Aaron Taylor) who was successful*.











*Many of Wolf's picks became successful, Wahle, Timmerman, Taucsher, Rivera, etc. but only after 3-5 years into the league. In comparing the two GMS, it would be unfair to expect TTs OL to perform better sooner than Wolf's picks.

[gex]

A-rod is what he is, a good game manager, nothing spectacular but not hopeless. If he sticks with the plan and doesn't turn it over we will be in the game at the end.
Favre is a game changer, he instills fear into opposing defensive coordinators trying to game plan against him, and his presence opens up other aspects of the offense.

[cpk1994]

A-rod is what he is, a good game manager, nothing spectacular but not hopeless. If he sticks with the plan and doesn't turn it over we will be in the game at the end.
Favre is a game changer, he instills fear into opposing defensive coordinators trying to game plan against him, and his presence opens up other aspects of the offense.

I hate to break it to ya, but Brett isn't scaring D Coordinators at all right now.

[Tony Oday]

A-rod is what he is, a good game manager, nothing spectacular but not hopeless. If he sticks with the plan and doesn't turn it over we will be in the game at the end.
Favre is a game changer, he instills fear into opposing defensive coordinators trying to game plan against him, and his presence opens up other aspects of the offense.

I hate to break it to ya, but Brett isn't scaring D Coordinators at all right now.

Brett right now is a D coordinators dream!

AR is a game changer because on 3rd and 5 he can scramble for the first if there isn't anyone open. Does he make the stupid/ill advised/brilliant/into triple coverage TDs? no. But he is threading the needle like no other and his arm strength is great.

[Lurker64]

Personally, I think the term "game changer" is one of the most overused cliches in professional football. Opposing teams gameplan for everybody on the other team, even average players. Information like "he's fast, but not very physical, so if you jam him at the line he's in trouble" helps shape game plans even when the receiver in question is only average. You plan around all the guys on the other team, not just the really good ones. The weak points of the other team are just as important in shaping strategy as the strong points of the other guys. You don't think that historically opposing DCs tried to force Favre into throwing Favresque INTs, in addition to trying to limit his out of the world plays? You exploit the bad and you minimize the good, and every NFL team does this with every player on the other team.

Also, if we're talking about "can make game changing plays", well pretty everybody in the league falls into that camp. Any LT can make a pancake block, springing an RB, any RB could hit the right hole and spring a run, even pedestrian receivers occasionally make ridiculous catches, even bad QBs can toss accurately even on difficult throws (I recall T. Jack hitting Troy Williamson in the hands deep downfield on many occasions, it wasn't Jackson's fault his WR couldn't catch a cold), etc.

But yes, Favre is a player the opposing defense schemes around. Rodgers is a player the opposing defense schemes around. Favre can make plays that change the game substantively, Rodgers can make plays that change the game substantively.

One thing I do have to say, though, is that I'm happy the Packers can run the QB sneak again. Watching the Jets run for -2 yards or throw an incomplete deep pass on 3rd and 1 reminds me of things that I do not miss.

[ND72]

A-rod is what he is, a good game manager, nothing spectacular but not hopeless. If he sticks with the plan and doesn't turn it over we will be in the game at the end.
Favre is a game changer, he instills fear into opposing defensive coordinators trying to game plan against him, and his presence opens up other aspects of the offense.

I hate to break it to ya, but Brett isn't scaring D Coordinators at all right now.

I honestly don't know if D Coordinators ever schemed against Brett. They'd try to put pressure on him, because he was bound to make mistakes....I donno, that's why I'm an Offensive Coordinator I guess, I know how to beat a defense, not create one.

[Chevelle2]

So let me get this straight:

It's OK to discuss before the season whether Thompson et al were morons for not keeping Favre, but its NOT OK to discuss it after the season started and we can examine the performance of the players on the field?

[falco]

So let me get this straight:

It's OK to discuss before the season whether Thompson et al were morons for not keeping Favre, but its NOT OK to discuss it after the season started and we can examine the performance of the players on the field?

what is wrong with this thread? this is a message board - people are supposed to debate things... if you don't like it, don't read it

i'm tired of coming here and seeing more posts complaining about things or trying to shut people up than people discussing a topic