Can Packer Rats be saved?

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't think PackerRats can be saved, we're all doomed. It's the economy, stupid. People are all tense and worked up because they know the end is near.

Think the gov't will bail us out?

Madtown and I are wildly filling out forms to "tap into" a piece of the $700b bailout plan. Our status to be recognized as a bank is almost complete. We would have been approved a day or two ago, except American Express got their application in first.

Madtown - that guy.... He made me buy lunch again. <sigh> Now he's at the mall, picking out all the things he's going to buy with money.... Buy silver stock, right now. He's particularly infatuated with the big silver chains...

Is lunch whipped cream and strawberries for you two romantic fools?

[MOBB DEEP]

This is quite ironic of you. The only ones making thread or bumping old ones is you, Paco, and Gex. I haven't seen any Favre threads saying TT was right, True, the Favre bashers go into the Favre thread, but thats becuase that is what that thread is for, Brett talk. They actually keep it there, you and your two boys don't.

Unfortunately, the thread didn't work out the way it was planned, but don't sit and call out a couple of people for posting outside of it when you and a few other Favre haters started your own Favre threads as well, (negative, of course) when it was to your benefit. Mostly, I'm referring to the whole Detroit game planning soap opera.

crazy how that whole matt millen thing just went away SO fast

i blieve it was BF4MVP or HH that said it would. i thought soap would last longer myself

[Cheesehead Craig]

So what the hell is wrong with this offensive line? And why can't the defense stop the run?

To me, we brought in the ZBS under Jagodzinski who left after a year and we haven't had anyone who understood the system as well as he did and thus couldn't teach it properly or get someone who could see what OL could best run the system. MM is being too stubborn in keeping the system without the right teachers on board or any true idea on getting the correct players in who can run it.

As for the DL, I gotta think it's scheme/coaching. The DL and LBs don't swarm to the ball and they just seem to not attack as much as other teams do.

Just my opinions.

WRONG THREAD

Nope, he asked a question and I gave him my answer. Nothing wrong with that.

[wist43]

I took a necessary leave of absence for too long, but I did notice that the tone has changed on here quite a bit.

I think it's true that there isn't nearly as much debate as there used to be, b/c a lot of the "desenters", or those who classified themselves as "realists" were pushed out, in part b/c the Pack went 13-3 last year, and b/c of the overall tone of the Thompson cheerleaders became increasingly shrill.

I haven't weighed in on the Favre "debate", and I'm a middle of the roader wrt Thompson, even if I am more critical than not.... although ultimately, I think I have to fall into the detractor catagory b/c I don't think they'll ever win a championship with him at the helm - but I digress

My answer is... PR is just fine

[Deputy Nutz]

I took a necessary leave of absence for too long, but I did notice that the tone has changed on here quite a bit.

I think it's true that there isn't nearly as much debate as there used to be, b/c a lot of the "desenters", or those who classified themselves as "realists" were pushed out, in part b/c the Pack went 13-3 last year, and b/c of the overall tone of the Thompson cheerleaders became increasingly shrill.

I haven't weighed in on the Favre "debate", and I'm a middle of the roader wrt Thompson, even if I am more critical than not.... although ultimately, I think I have to fall into the detractor catagory b/c I don't think they'll ever win a championship with him at the helm - but I digress

My answer is... PR is just fine

I agree with the Thompson statement. Thompson wants to put a cost effective product out on the field that most likely will never be the class of the NFL. I have backed Thompson with most of his moves, I have even given him the benefit of the doubt with Harrell, but he certainly won't make that bold move that will put this team over the top. You can only get so young.

[MOBB DEEP]

So what the hell is wrong with this offensive line? And why can't the defense stop the run?

To me, we brought in the ZBS under Jagodzinski who left after a year and we haven't had anyone who understood the system as well as he did and thus couldn't teach it properly or get someone who could see what OL could best run the system. MM is being too stubborn in keeping the system without the right teachers on board or any true idea on getting the correct players in who can run it.

As for the DL, I gotta think it's scheme/coaching. The DL and LBs don't swarm to the ball and they just seem to not attack as much as other teams do.

Just my opinions.

WRONG THREAD

Nope, he asked a question and I gave him my answer. Nothing wrong with that.

was only joking

[RashanGary]

I don't think you two understand where Thompson is going with this, but time will be the ultimate judge.

We'll see. Certainly, Rome was not built in a day. For all of Ron Wolfs greatness, he only won ONE SB in career as an NFL GM. It's not something that will happen every year. To build a team, I believe it requires many years of good decisions building on each other. Eventually, the stars align, but to try to force it is to sell your team short by limiting yoru opportities. Last year was a little lucky, but this team is still ascending from a pretty low starting point. Many pieces are in place while they are going to need stronger offensive and defensive lineman

For all of the "sky is falling" rhetoric, I believe the Packers will be 5-5 after this week and in playoff contention heading into the easist part of their schedule and I think they'll compete for the playoffs until the very end. I still think they have a strong shot at making it. They are the youngest team in the NFL with a first year starting QB. They're poised to lock up several key core players as well as improve while several promising young ones enter the primes of their careers. To judge this team now, on the bottom of what I believe is going to be a rather impressive upswing, would be foolish. Such is life on a message board when those who don't understand want answers before they are available.

[Cheesehead Craig]

So what the hell is wrong with this offensive line? And why can't the defense stop the run?

To me, we brought in the ZBS under Jagodzinski who left after a year and we haven't had anyone who understood the system as well as he did and thus couldn't teach it properly or get someone who could see what OL could best run the system. MM is being too stubborn in keeping the system without the right teachers on board or any true idea on getting the correct players in who can run it.

As for the DL, I gotta think it's scheme/coaching. The DL and LBs don't swarm to the ball and they just seem to not attack as much as other teams do.

Just my opinions.

WRONG THREAD

Nope, he asked a question and I gave him my answer. Nothing wrong with that.

was only joking

Oh... very well then. Carry on good chap.

[superfan]

Well, I don't post here much anymore, but I do check in from time to time. There are four main reasons why I come to PR:

1. Breaking news about the Pack and the NFL. Example: earlier today, a coworker told me that he heard Barnett was out for the year, which I had not yet heard (I live in a vaccuum). First, I went to packers.com to confirm and found nothing on the home page. Next, I came here - boom, there it was on the first page, Barnett out for season. Our posters here make this site a very reliable and timely source of information.

2. Detailed analysis/breakdown of the Pack and football in general - There is some great discussion here that is not equaled elsewhere on the web. I'll name some names here, not meaning to exclude other valued posters - Patler, Harvey Wallbangers, Lurker64, Bretsky - you guys in particular come to mind when I think of inspired posters who really offer terrific insight into the game. There are countless other solid contributors, but you guys IMO are the cream of the crop.

3. Camaraderie - I know and have met a number of great people on this site (even the unthinkable - a great Vikings fan ) and this site is a terrific resource for meeting Packer fans in my area.

4. Humor/Fun - I also visit this site to get a fun take from people on the Packers and life in general. There are a number of people that make it enjoyable to visit this site. Missing a bunch of posters here, but the initial list that comes to mind is Skinbasket, Deputy Nutz, Partial, Tarlam!, 007, GBRulz, Fritz, MJZiggy, MadtownPacker (best when he is on a rampage), FritzDon'tBlitz (what happened to that guy?), Scott Campbell (has he really been banned? if so, unfortunate from an entertainment perspective, big SC fan), Idle Threat, HarlanHuckleby, and last but certainly not least, the immortal Cleft Crusty. Not saying everyone mentioned here is the next George Carlin, but as a sum, a fantastic group of personalities who keep bringing me back.

Is the site doomed? No, but it would be nice to see much less of the Favre - Rodgers - TT - Sherman etc. love/hate fest.

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't think you two understand where Thompson is going with this, but time will be the ultimate judge.

We'll see. Certainly, Rome was not built in a day. For all of Ron Wolfs greatness, he only won ONE SB in career as an NFL GM. It's not something that will happen every year. To build a team, I believe it requires many years of good decisions building on each other. Eventually, the stars align, but to try to force it is to sell your team short by limiting yoru opportities. Last year was a little lucky, but this team is still ascending from a pretty low starting point. Many pieces are in place while they are going to need stronger offensive and defensive lineman

For all of the "sky is falling" rhetoric, I believe the Packers will be 5-5 after this week and in playoff contention heading into the easist part of their schedule and I think they'll compete for the playoffs until the very end. I still think they have a strong shot at making it. They are the youngest team in the NFL with a first year starting QB. They're poised to lock up several key core players as well as improve while several promising young ones enter the primes of their careers. To judge this team now, on the bottom of what I believe is going to be a rather impressive upswing, would be foolish. Such is life on a message board when those who don't understand want answers before they are available.

I am not saying the sky is falling, I think they way the roster is set, 2008 was to go more towards .500, maybe 9-7 than towards the expectation 13-3 of last year.

Rodgers has performed pretty much like expected, some good games, some bad games, and couple of games in the middle. The outcome of the season is not going to rest completely on his shoulders, but he is the QB of the Packers, and Quarterbacks are one player out of 22 starters on the field, but they are the only ones that win totals are attributed to.

Anyways, I certainly am not completely complaining about the job Thompson has done, although the defensive line which was once a very impressive unit for the Packers, is it a rebuilding year for the defensive line? I don't know, but running out guys like Thompson, and Montgomery at defensive end and again counting on an a repaired Justin Harrell makes me nervous for a team that was a game away from the Super Bowl last year.

The wide receiver corps doesn't look like the best unit on the Packers, but in the NFL like it did last year. Why? The quarterback? The offensive line? Play calling? Thompson keeps adding pieces to this unit but now it isn't carrying the offense like imagined. Jennings had big numbers earlier in the year, but now teams have taken him away for the time being. Nelson has been ok as a rookie, Jones is hurt, and Martin has been disappointing. Driver is still a threat with the ball in his hand, I am sure he wishes he could catch more balls on the run but it just hasn't happened enough.

The offensive line is in big trouble once again, sure Darren Colledge has made strides, but now Clifton is drifting towards the end of his career, Spitz seems to be struggling, and Wells simply isn't powerful enough to hold up in the middle. Tauscher is the one consistent after a slow start and he probably isn't going to be resigned in the off season. Since Thompson's first year as GM he has not rebuilt the offensive line, nor has he built adequate depth.

The best unit possibly in football is the secondary. Now with Al Harris back they not only hold the defense together, they point more points on the board than the Packers offensive running game. Thompson has done a good job at keeping a good mix of veterans and building his depth so once Harris and Woodson are gone Williams, Blackmon, and Lee will hopefully be ready. A lot of really good football players in this group.

At linebacker Thompson has done a decent job and even taking Hawk at the 5th selection in the 2006 draft shows that he was dedicated to improving the position. His only signing in free agency this year was Brandon Chillar who needs to see the field. Thompson has invested a lot in the Linbacker unit, but what I still don't get why they are under utilized, or if they are under performing. Why does Poppinga still get chances to take bad angles, miss tackles, and looks clueless in coverage, while Chillar sits on the bench. Goofy and I can't say that I put the blame on Thompson for the lack of playmaking from this unit. Barnett is out for the year, but he was having his worst season since his second year in the league. Thompson gave Barnett the long term contract and so far Barnett hasn't responded, his play slipped in 2008.

Finally the running game, more like the begining of 2007 than at the end of last. There just isn't any consistency. Running backs more than any other position need training camp to get their timing and vision down. Well it has taken Grant two months to get going, and it isn't really all that dominating. He is close to breaking some runs, but that extra gear that he had last year doesn't seem to be there. Brandon Jackson is the third down back, he is doing a better job catching the ball this year and does have some untapped potential. He is a project, and for that matter Grant is still a very young player. We might have seen his potential alread, but is inexperiance is something that shows with his inconsistency this year. Thompson has brought both of them in, if he were to get a grade on the position in 2008, it would be a "C-".

[Partial]

I don't think you two understand where Thompson is going with this, but time will be the ultimate judge.

We'll see. Certainly, Rome was not built in a day. For all of Ron Wolfs greatness, he only won ONE SB in career as an NFL GM. It's not something that will happen every year. To build a team, I believe it requires many years of good decisions building on each other. Eventually, the stars align, but to try to force it is to sell your team short by limiting yoru opportities. Last year was a little lucky, but this team is still ascending from a pretty low starting point. Many pieces are in place while they are going to need stronger offensive and defensive lineman

For all of the "sky is falling" rhetoric, I believe the Packers will be 5-5 after this week and in playoff contention heading into the easist part of their schedule and I think they'll compete for the playoffs until the very end. I still think they have a strong shot at making it. They are the youngest team in the NFL with a first year starting QB. They're poised to lock up several key core players as well as improve while several promising young ones enter the primes of their careers. To judge this team now, on the bottom of what I believe is going to be a rather impressive upswing, would be foolish. Such is life on a message board when those who don't understand want answers before they are available.

Competing for the 5 or 6 seed is pretty unacceptable in my opinion. We were a young, blossoming team that made the NFC championship game last year. In theory, we should have improved. We definitely are not as good of a team, despite the individual talent likely being greater.

[Partial]

Good breakdown Nutz. I agree.

[MOBB DEEP]

I don't think you two understand where Thompson is going with this, but time will be the ultimate judge.

We'll see. Certainly, Rome was not built in a day. For all of Ron Wolfs greatness, he only won ONE SB in career as an NFL GM. It's not something that will happen every year. To build a team, I believe it requires many years of good decisions building on each other. Eventually, the stars align, but to try to force it is to sell your team short by limiting yoru opportities. Last year was a little lucky, but this team is still ascending from a pretty low starting point. Many pieces are in place while they are going to need stronger offensive and defensive lineman

For all of the "sky is falling" rhetoric, I believe the Packers will be 5-5 after this week and in playoff contention heading into the easist part of their schedule and I think they'll compete for the playoffs until the very end. I still think they have a strong shot at making it. They are the youngest team in the NFL with a first year starting QB. They're poised to lock up several key core players as well as improve while several promising young ones enter the primes of their careers. To judge this team now, on the bottom of what I believe is going to be a rather impressive upswing, would be foolish. Such is life on a message board when those who don't understand want answers before they are available.

I am not saying the sky is falling, I think they way the roster is set, 2008 was to go more towards .500, maybe 9-7 than towards the expectation 13-3 of last year.

Rodgers has performed pretty much like expected, some good games, some bad games, and couple of games in the middle. The outcome of the season is not going to rest completely on his shoulders, but he is the QB of the Packers, and Quarterbacks are one player out of 22 starters on the field, but they are the only ones that win totals are attributed to.

Anyways, I certainly am not completely complaining about the job Thompson has done, although the defensive line which was once a very impressive unit for the Packers, is it a rebuilding year for the defensive line? I don't know, but running out guys like Thompson, and Montgomery at defensive end and again counting on an a repaired Justin Harrell makes me nervous for a team that was a game away from the Super Bowl last year.

The wide receiver corps doesn't look like the best unit on the Packers, but in the NFL like it did last year. Why? The quarterback? The offensive line? Play calling? Thompson keeps adding pieces to this unit but now it isn't carrying the offense like imagined. Jennings had big numbers earlier in the year, but now teams have taken him away for the time being. Nelson has been ok as a rookie, Jones is hurt, and Martin has been disappointing. Driver is still a threat with the ball in his hand, I am sure he wishes he could catch more balls on the run but it just hasn't happened enough.

The offensive line is in big trouble once again, sure Darren Colledge has made strides, but now Clifton is drifting towards the end of his career, Spitz seems to be struggling, and Wells simply isn't powerful enough to hold up in the middle. Tauscher is the one consistent after a slow start and he probably isn't going to be resigned in the off season. Since Thompson's first year as GM he has not rebuilt the offensive line, nor has he built adequate depth.

The best unit possibly in football is the secondary. Now with Al Harris back they not only hold the defense together, they point more points on the board than the Packers offensive running game. Thompson has done a good job at keeping a good mix of veterans and building his depth so once Harris and Woodson are gone Williams, Blackmon, and Lee will hopefully be ready. A lot of really good football players in this group.

At linebacker Thompson has done a decent job and even taking Hawk at the 5th selection in the 2006 draft shows that he was dedicated to improving the position. His only signing in free agency this year was Brandon Chillar who needs to see the field. Thompson has invested a lot in the Linbacker unit, but what I still don't get why they are under utilized, or if they are under performing. Why does Poppinga still get chances to take bad angles, miss tackles, and looks clueless in coverage, while Chillar sits on the bench. Goofy and I can't say that I put the blame on Thompson for the lack of playmaking from this unit. Barnett is out for the year, but he was having his worst season since his second year in the league. Thompson gave Barnett the long term contract and so far Barnett hasn't responded, his play slipped in 2008.

Finally the running game, more like the begining of 2007 than at the end of last. There just isn't any consistency. Running backs more than any other position need training camp to get their timing and vision down. Well it has taken Grant two months to get going, and it isn't really all that dominating. He is close to breaking some runs, but that extra gear that he had last year doesn't seem to be there. Brandon Jackson is the third down back, he is doing a better job catching the ball this year and does have some untapped potential. He is a project, and for that matter Grant is still a very young player. We might have seen his potential alread, but is inexperiance is something that shows with his inconsistency this year. Thompson has brought both of them in, if he were to get a grade on the position in 2008, it would be a "C-".

good post

[MOBB DEEP]

Is the site doomed? No, but it would be nice to see much less of the Favre - Rodgers - TT - Sherman etc. love/hate fest.

sherman lol

[RashanGary]

I don't really agree with your post, at least not the tone of it. I see a playoff competitive team, not living up to expectations that were set by a little bit of a fluky season. I see a team that has far more young, promising players than old, declining ones. I see a team that is just beginning a strong upward pattern into the elite teams in the NFL. I see a 24 year old QB who is probably going to win more games that the HOFer did in two of his last three seasons here. If we're judging just on wins and only the QB, he's certainly holding his own. Acctually he's living up the play of the HOFer that came before him if you want to use the last three years. I don't think you expected at all.


You're banging your drum now. All of the Thompson doubters are. I'll simply say, this is the beginning. This is when Thompsons young core is young. He will not go younger. He just had nothing to start with, so like Parcells in Miami, he went young. Just like the new GM in Tennessee. It will get better and I'll be here to remind you that you never saw it coming. By then you'll be jumping on board, saying you knew it all along.