WHAT GRADE do you give TT thus far in DRAFTS

[cheesner]

Compared to Ron Wolf, TT sucks canal water. Wolf gives away more players than TT finds. Namely Hentrich, Paup, and Tony Bennett.

Bennett was from the Infante regime.

Look at Wolf's success of his first 3 drafts in the 4th year.

Players contributing to the Packers were Aaron Taylor, Wayne Simmons, Kuberski, Brooks, Bennett, and Teague.


In the same time, TT has the following players:

TT has: Hawk, Collins, Jennings, Rodgers, Spitz, Poppinga, Crosby, Hall, and Jolly.

Clearly the advantage is to TT at this point. Many of Wolf's picks emerged after the 4th year for Wolf (Dotson, Chewy, Evans, Levens, wilkens and Schroeder). It would be unfair to use them in the comparison because TT's picks have not had the same time frame to develop. Levens, for example, had 120 yards rushing in his 2nd year. TT will have a tough time keeping that advantage, but for right now, he is the superior talent evaluator.


Wolf's first 3 drafts:

1994	1	1	16	16	Aaron Taylor	 T	Notre Dame
 	2	3	19	84	LeShon Johnson	RB	Northern Illinois
 	3	4	23	126	Gabe Wilkins	DE	Gardner-Webb
 	4	5	15	146	Terry Mickens	WR	Florida A&M
 	5	5	18	149	Dorsey Levens	RB	Georgia Tech
 	6	6	8	169	Jay Kearney	WR	West Virginia
 	7	6	14	175	Ruffin Hamilton	LB	Tulane
 	8	6	20	181	Bill Schroeder	WR	Wisconsin-La Crosse
 	9	6	29	190	Paul Duckworth	LB	Connecticut
1993	1	1	15	15	Wayne Simmons	LB	Clemson
 	2	1	29	29	George Teague	DB	Alabama
 	3	3	25	81	Earl Dotson	 T	Texas A&I
 	4	5	6	118	Mark Brunell	QB	Washington
 	5	5	7	119	James Willis	LB	Auburn
 	6	6	1	141	Doug Evans	DB	Louisiana Tech
 	7	6	12	152	Paul Hutchins	 T	Western Michigan
 	8	6	16	156	Tim Watson	DB	Howard
 	9	7	15	183	Robert Kuberski	DE	Navy
1992	1	1	5	5	Terrell Buckley	DB	Florida State
 	2	2	6	34	Mark D'Onofrio	LB	Penn State
 	3	3	6	62	Robert Brooks	WR	South Carolina
 	4	4	19	103	Edgar Bennett	RB	Florida State
 	5	5	7	119	Dexter McNabb	RB	Florida
 	6	5	18	130	Orlando McKay	WR	Washington
 	7	6	17	157	Mark Chmura	TE	Boston College
 	8	7	22	190	Chris Holder	WR	Tuskegee
 	9	9	6	230	Ty Detmer	QB	Brigham Young
 	10	9	16	240	Shazzon Bradley	DT	Tennessee
 	11	10	5	257	Andrew Oberg	 T	North Carolina
 	12	11	7	287	Gabe Mokwuah	LB	American International
 	13	12	6	314	Brett Collins	LB	Washington

[sharpe1027]

The T-buck and Harrell selections are eerily similiar, except that T-buck was much higher.

As several people mentioned, a lot of the players we take for granted as being good players didn't gain recognition until after the super-bowl run. Winning makes the exact same player seem better, just look at where all the pro-bowl players come from.

[denverYooper]

The T-buck and Harrell selections are eerily similiar, except that T-buck was much higher.

As several people mentioned, a lot of the players we take for granted as being good players didn't gain recognition until after the super-bowl run. Winning makes the exact same player seem better, just look at where all the pro-bowl players come from.

I still remember the chant, "T-buck, you suck!"

[cheesner]

The T-buck and Harrell selections are eerily similiar, except that T-buck was much higher.

As several people mentioned, a lot of the players we take for granted as being good players didn't gain recognition until after the super-bowl run. Winning makes the exact same player seem better, just look at where all the pro-bowl players come from.

True enough, I suppose, but my point was more that Wolf's players took time to develop and people are expecting TT's players to be instant probowlers. Look at JH. Has a DT ever come into the league and dominated? I know it is dissappointing to have him injured and not contributing - but to expect a big impact from a rookie or even a first year guy is unreasonable.

[Rastak]

The T-buck and Harrell selections are eerily similiar, except that T-buck was much higher.

As several people mentioned, a lot of the players we take for granted as being good players didn't gain recognition until after the super-bowl run. Winning makes the exact same player seem better, just look at where all the pro-bowl players come from.

True enough, I suppose, but my point was more that Wolf's players took time to develop and people are expecting TT's players to be instant probowlers. Look at JH. Has a DT ever come into the league and dominated? I know it is dissappointing to have him injured and not contributing - but to expect a big impact from a rookie or even a first year guy is unreasonable.

Amobi Okoye, Sedrick Ellis, Brandon Mebrane, Haloti Ngata, Brodeick Bunkley to name a few guys who contributed to their team in their first two years.

Look at Cullen Jenkins stats for his first two years. 7.5 sacks 36 tackles. I know he later moved to end but as a DT his did ok.
Kevin Williams has 22 sacks his first two years.

I guess I agree with "big impact" being unreasonable, but some impact is not.

[hurleyfan]

The T-buck and Harrell selections are eerily similiar, except that T-buck was much higher.

As several people mentioned, a lot of the players we take for granted as being good players didn't gain recognition until after the super-bowl run. Winning makes the exact same player seem better, just look at where all the pro-bowl players come from.

True enough, I suppose, but my point was more that Wolf's players took time to develop and people are expecting TT's players to be instant probowlers. Look at JH. Has a DT ever come into the league and dominated? I know it is dissappointing to have him injured and not contributing - but to expect a big impact from a rookie or even a first year guy is unreasonable.

Wolf also added some free agents to push that team over the top, whereas the few F/As TT has brought in, have not had the same impact.

I think Harrel is going to be an adequate DT at best.

[Patler]

Harrell certainly may be a bust., but it is unreasonable to really judge him now since he has played both seasons without having the benefit of off season or training camp work to improve technique,etc. He has come in "cold" both seasons.

Next year he may show himself to be unworthy because he will either again be injured, or will have a year of off season and training camp work without improvement. On the other hand, maybe he will finally show why some teams were so high on his potential.

[pbmax]

I still say if he drafts so damn well, and if we're so damn deep, why do our STs suck so bad? Shouldn't they shine with all this talent?

Stock.

Its not quite this simple, obviously. Stock was also the coach last year when the Packers had one of their best Special Teams performances in two decades, all around. Last year the ST were clearly an indication of our depth and talent.

Which players kept are important. Tracy White is missed, but there may be other pieces either hurt or replaced for other reasons that are causing the dropoff. Our punter is not helping the punt coverage team.

The big question is what happened to kickoff coverage? Is it all Tracy White? I don't think Rob Davis was on the kickoff coverage team.

[pbmax]

Wolf also added some free agents to push that team over the top, whereas the few F/As TT has brought in, have not had the same impact.

FA was new when Wolf was here and the FA classes contained far better players than they do now. You will never see Reggie White or Deion Sanders caliber players in FA now, unless they are old or have off the field baggage.

Wolf also had the benefit of the June 1st cuts containing meaningful veteran players. Teams did crazy things with contracts in the early stages of FA. Now it is just a scrap heap. I am by no means saying Thompson is as aggressive as Wolf in this area, but to compare the impact of the FA signings is almost apples to oranges.

[Patler]

I still say if he drafts so damn well, and if we're so damn deep, why do our STs suck so bad? Shouldn't they shine with all this talent?

Stock.

Its not quite this simple, obviously. Stock was also the coach last year when the Packers had one of their best Special Teams performances in two decades, all around. Last year the ST were clearly an indication of our depth and talent.

Which players kept are important. Tracy White is missed, but there may be other pieces either hurt or replaced for other reasons that are causing the dropoff. Our punter is not helping the punt coverage team.

The big question is what happened to kickoff coverage? Is it all Tracy White? I don't think Rob Davis was on the kickoff coverage team.

I've wondered about Tracy White. When he left several players said he was unquestionably the leader of the special team units. Since ST tends to be a lot of younger guys, less experienced, perhaps the veteran leadership of White is missed. He may have been a calming influence, a guy the others looked to for leadership.

[Patler]

The big question is what happened to kickoff coverage? Is it all Tracy White? I don't think Rob Davis was on the kickoff coverage team.

I remember reading once that on kickoffs every team almost always committed two guys to Tracy White. This may have simplified things for other players on kickoff coverage.

Another factor between 2007 and this season is that in about half the games last season the Packers used "Mr. Wdge-Buster" - Shaun Bodiford. Tracy White said that Bodiford was one of the most uniquely talented players White had ever seen at disrupting the wedge. I find it somewhat interesting that the Packers have kept Bodiford on IR all season, and have not reached an injury settlement with him. They seem to want to keep his rights.

[KYPack]

I still say if he drafts so damn well, and if we're so damn deep, why do our STs suck so bad? Shouldn't they shine with all this talent?

Stock.

Its not quite this simple, obviously. Stock was also the coach last year when the Packers had one of their best Special Teams performances in two decades, all around. Last year the ST were clearly an indication of our depth and talent.

Which players kept are important. Tracy White is missed, but there may be other pieces either hurt or replaced for other reasons that are causing the dropoff. Our punter is not helping the punt coverage team.

The big question is what happened to kickoff coverage? Is it all Tracy White? I don't think Rob Davis was on the kickoff coverage team.

I've wondered about Tracy White. When he left several players said he was unquestionably the leader of the special team units. Since ST tends to be a lot of younger guys, less experienced, perhaps the veteran leadership of White is missed. He may have been a calming influence, a guy the others looked to for leadership.

The White move shows a Thompson trend. He will always go with a young player with upside over a vet whose topped out. White was a veteran special teams terror and not much of a position player. TT released him so we wouldn't lose Lansanah to the Dolphins.

Over time, this move may prove to be the best. But for now, this move damaged the team. White was a steady vet who provided both leadership and direction to the special teams. Lansanah is a guy with a lot of potential who may be a great player. I doubt it, but maybe he will be one.

The best move for our team was to lose a young prospect and keep a vet who provided some stability on the field. TT chose the future. It seems he will always keep a kid and let a limited vet go. That is probably the best course for growth, but it isn't always the only way to go.

[Bossman641]

The big question is what happened to kickoff coverage? Is it all Tracy White? I don't think Rob Davis was on the kickoff coverage team.

I remember reading once that on kickoffs every team almost always committed two guys to Tracy White. This may have simplified things for other players on kickoff coverage.

Another factor between 2007 and this season is that in about half the games last season the Packers used "Mr. Wdge-Buster" - Shaun Bodiford. Tracy White said that Bodiford was one of the most uniquely talented players White had ever seen at disrupting the wedge. I find it somewhat interesting that the Packers have kept Bodiford on IR all season, and have not reached an injury settlement with him. They seem to want to keep his rights.

I'd guess the biggest thing has been injuries. IMO, familiarity is the biggest thing on special teams. Knowing your lanes, trusting the guy next to you. Maybe it is just me but it seems like we have had a lot of turnover on the special teams.

[prsnfoto]

Compared to Ron Wolf, TT sucks canal water. Wolf gives away more players than TT finds. Namely Hentrich, Paup, and Tony Bennett.

Wolf was equally bad in the 1st round the big difference is how they used FA TT is a afraid of it and it surprises me since Woodsen and Chillar(who is a best LB right now) and Pickett have all panned out.

[sharpe1027]

Wolf was equally bad in the 1st round the big difference is how they used FA TT is a afraid of it and it surprises me since Woodsen and Chillar(who is a best LB right now) and Pickett have all panned out.

Is this sarcasm?