WHAT GRADE do you give TT thus far in DRAFTS

[cheesner]

The T-buck and Harrell selections are eerily similiar, except that T-buck was much higher.

As several people mentioned, a lot of the players we take for granted as being good players didn't gain recognition until after the super-bowl run. Winning makes the exact same player seem better, just look at where all the pro-bowl players come from.

True enough, I suppose, but my point was more that Wolf's players took time to develop and people are expecting TT's players to be instant probowlers. Look at JH. Has a DT ever come into the league and dominated? I know it is dissappointing to have him injured and not contributing - but to expect a big impact from a rookie or even a first year guy is unreasonable.

Amobi Okoye, Sedrick Ellis, Brandon Mebrane, Haloti Ngata, Brodeick Bunkley to name a few guys who contributed to their team in their first two years.

Look at Cullen Jenkins stats for his first two years. 7.5 sacks 36 tackles. I know he later moved to end but as a DT his did ok.
Kevin Williams has 22 sacks his first two years.

I guess I agree with "big impact" being unreasonable, but some impact is not.

Sedric Ellis: 22 tackles 2 sacks. He is tied for 13th in tackles for the team
Amobi Okoye: 14 tackles 0 sacks.
Brandon Mebrane: 29 tackles 4 sacks
Ngata: 41 tackles 1 sack
31 tackles 3 sacks (in his 2nd year - he is currently in his 3rd)

Harrell : 12 tackles 0 sacks in 1/2 a season.

Brandon is a DE, so he shouldn't be considered. But, statistically, JH is not that much different than the guys you mention. Stats don't tell the full story, and you can make arguments on both sides with that.

Current DT studs in 2nd year

Haynesworth 32T 2.5S
Kris Jenkins 44T 7S
K.Williams 70T 12S
J. WIlliams 14T 2S
C. Hampton 40T 2S


Well Jenkins and KW did very well early, but the other 3 weren't significantly statistically better than JH at this point in their careers.

I don't consider JH a bust yet - a disappointment so far, but not a bust. He still has a potentially great career ahead of him.

[Freak Out]

I want to see Colledge and Jared Allen fight sometime.

[DonHutson]

I want to see Colledge and Jared Allen fight sometime.

Allen would cheat. Biting... scratching... groin stuff.

[Fritz]

And Colledge wouldn't? I bet that guy would chew a hole in your nutsack at the bottom of a pile!

[DonHutson]

And Colledge wouldn't? I bet that guy would chew a hole in your nutsack at the bottom of a pile!

I don't think he would. That's why he's a mediocre guard.

Spitz or Wells on the other hand, I believe they would do whatever it takes.

[Tarlam!]

He's a good talent evaluator, but he's far too rigid in his approach.

Well, he surprised a lot of people in the last draft by trading up to get Thompson. That doesn't speak rigidity to me. Neither does firing two punters in one season.

I voted "C", too.

[Partial]

That is downright ignorant to compare Harrell to a 3-4 Nose... Not even close to comparable.

[Packers4Ever]

That is downright ignorant to compare Harrell to a 3-4 Nose... Not even close to comparable.

I think you all might enjoy checking out the Forum at

www.packerchatters.com. There are a number of people

commenting on about the same discussion

heard here. You can read without joining. Look for the

section of topics on MM, TT, ARod, Bob Harlan...etc.. their feelings strongly

parallel the same as those in this thread.