D-line performance, not TT's fault THIS year

[RashanGary]

TT needs to pick a pure stud in the draft for d-line, especially if we have a top 10 first pick (plus if a lot of juniors do come out). I don't want to see any trades out of the first round. If he wants IMMEDIATE help (which he needs to keep from this same record next year), he will need to hit his top picks, plus 1-2 FA's.

Look at the Hawk pick. Had we traded out we could have had two players better than Hawk. Sometimes standing pat does not mean more quality. It can just mean less good players (see the Hawk, Harrell, Mandrich, Buckley, Reynolds and other picks). See trading back and drafting Jennings. Let's not pretend sitting tight is all about quality adn trading back is all about junk. I can see how someone might put that together, but I can't see how that same person couldn't take a good look at recent history and immediately toss out that false logic.

[RashanGary]

All of that said, maybe a great defensive player slips to us and we can sit tight, pick and never look back. I'm hoping for that too, but I'm not so rigidly wired to assume one strategy is going to be the end all to our problems, esspecially when that one strategy has been historically negative in this franchises recent dealings.

[Fritz]

TT needs to pick a pure stud in the draft for d-line, especially if we have a top 10 first pick (plus if a lot of juniors do come out). I don't want to see any trades out of the first round. If he wants IMMEDIATE help (which he needs to keep from this same record next year), he will need to hit his top picks, plus 1-2 FA's.

Look at the Hawk pick. Had we traded out we could have had two players better than Hawk. Sometimes standing pat does not mean more quality. It can just mean less good players (see the Hawk, Harrell, Mandrich, Buckley, Reynolds and other picks). See trading back and drafting Jennings. Let's not pretend sitting tight is all about quality adn trading back is all about junk. I can see how someone might put that together, but I can't see how that same person couldn't take a good look at recent history and immediately toss out that false logic.

This is a good point. I'm not sure why people equate trading back with automatically picking up worse players. Percentage-wise, more first rounders work out, sure, but percentage-wise, also, the more picks you have, the better your chances.

[cpk1994]

TT needs to pick a pure stud in the draft for d-line, especially if we have a top 10 first pick (plus if a lot of juniors do come out). I don't want to see any trades out of the first round. If he wants IMMEDIATE help (which he needs to keep from this same record next year), he will need to hit his top picks, plus 1-2 FA's.

Look at the Hawk pick. Had we traded out we could have had two players better than Hawk. Sometimes standing pat does not mean more quality. It can just mean less good players (see the Hawk, Harrell, Mandrich, Buckley, Reynolds and other picks). See trading back and drafting Jennings. Let's not pretend sitting tight is all about quality adn trading back is all about junk. I can see how someone might put that together, but I can't see how that same person couldn't take a good look at recent history and immediately toss out that false logic.

This is a good point. I'm not sure why people equate trading back with automatically picking up worse players. Percentage-wise, more first rounders work out, sure, but percentage-wise, also, the more picks you have, the better your chances.

Exactly. Remember Ron Wolf was noted as a master in drafting the 3rd - 6th rounds while being not so great in the first.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd much rather have Peppers than Haynesworth, but if that's true--that he will be franchised, then I, and more importantly, Thompson would not, as somebody said, part with the draft picks.

Haynesworth, IMO, is not the sure thing that Peppers is. Haynesworth is a little older, and as I recall, has had both injury and character issues. Just the same, given the fact that our worst problem has been stopping the run, I'd take a chance on giving him that monster contract. I kinda doubt Thompson would do it, though, and I wouldn't be all that disappointed if he didn't.

I'm not near as negative on the current D-Line talent the Packers have, especially if Jenkins comes back healthy. It will be essentially the same as last season--13-3, but with more experience and probably without any deterioration from aging.

We don't need more mid-range free agent talent--Pickett, Jolly, Cole, Jenkins, Montgomery, Thompson, and Hunter are decent enough. I say, Superstar or Nothing at all when it comes to free agents.

[sharpe1027]

Teddy wouldn't give up picks, that's true.

He offered a higher draft pick than 29 other GMs for Moss. Supposedly, he was discussing draft picks for Gonzalezs. Seriously, how often are there significant trades for draft picks? There are maybe 3 or 4 a year, tops. That means that 28 GMs also won't give up picks...

I don't agree with the "only desperation" theory either. What was the Chillar signing? Besides, is it really a great idea to always spend a lot of money on a positions that you were solid at?

I've probably asked this 20 times and never once received a solid answer: How many FAs does the average GM sign a year? How many of them are legit and not just ST guys?

I think it is all to easy to compare FA moves of the whole league, or the one or two most active teams, to the Packers. TT is NOT the most aggressive FA player, but I bet he is not the least aggressive either.

[Pugger]

I had no problem with TT trading Williams. He is a decent backup but he wasn't worth the money he wanted. Last year when he became the starter after Jolly got injured he couldn't produce. And is he not producing in Cleveland because of a different scheme or is he really just a situational pass rusher who is better coming off the bench? I also remember on draft day a lot of us were excited about TT picking Brohm. If memory serves most thought that was a good value pick at that point in the draft. But when the young man struggled in preseason like so many QBs do a lot of fans began to howl.

[sharpe1027]

I had no problem with TT trading Williams. He is a decent backup but he wasn't worth the money he wanted. Last year when he became the starter after Jolly got injured he couldn't produce. And is he not producing in Cleveland because of a different scheme or is he really just a situational pass rusher who is better coming off the bench? I also remember on draft day a lot of us were excited about TT picking Brohm. If memory serves most thought that was a good value pick at that point in the draft. But when the young man struggled in preseason like so many QBs do a lot of fans began to howl.

Agreed, on all accounts. Both Rodgers and Favre got similar bad reviews for their first year play. Too early to tell.

[KYPack]

I had no problem with TT trading Williams. He is a decent backup but he wasn't worth the money he wanted. Last year when he became the starter after Jolly got injured he couldn't produce. And is he not producing in Cleveland because of a different scheme or is he really just a situational pass rusher who is better coming off the bench? I also remember on draft day a lot of us were excited about TT picking Brohm. If memory serves most thought that was a good value pick at that point in the draft. But when the young man struggled in preseason like so many QBs do a lot of fans began to howl.

Me neither.

Williams is a spot guy all the way. Why Cleveland thought they could move him to a 3-4 LDE is beyond me.

I loved the Brohm pick when it happened. I saw Brohm and Flynn play in '07. There was no doubt in my mind Brohm was the superior player and pro prospect. Brohm played a lot more than Flynn did in college. Brohm played on a team that ran pro set with lots of crosses and slants. More importantly, Louisiville had a shaky OLine in Brohm's senior year. He was under duress in every game and he handled the stress really well. Brohm's brother played in the NFL and his dad was a coach.

Flynn was a one year starter and played behind a solid OLine in his one season. UK played LSU and beat 'em by pressuring the hell out of Flynn.

Then, they both hit the Pack and did a role reversal. Brohm was the guy freaked out by the pro's while Flynn hit his stride early and clearly was the better player in his first season.

I still think it was insane to keep two first year QB's as the back-ups. I'm pretty sure we will get at least one long time QB out of this, but I still don't know which one it will be.