National Championship QBs

[Fritz]

I would say that Vince Young apparently fooled many people coming out of college. I recall - and who knows if it was smoke - that TT was enamoured of the guy.

[TheCheese]

I would say that Vince Young apparently fooled many people coming out of college. I recall - and who knows if it was smoke - that TT was enamoured of the guy.

Ok let's be real here. No on knows who the hell TT was enamored with before the draft, and that is when those reports came out. Rumors are rumors, no one in the league is as good as TT is with keeping things close to the chest.

To my other point, if TT did leak he was enamored with VY, than he did it on purpose as a smoke screen, in which case he truly would'nt have been "enamored" with him.

Let's not forget how shrewd Ted is, hell no one in the organization knew what Ted's pick was in the 2006 draft, and he stated he decided it was going to be Hawk two weeks before the draft.

[vince]

I would say that Vince Young apparently fooled many people coming out of college. I recall - and who knows if it was smoke - that TT was enamoured of the guy.

TT would probably admit that love - if it really existed - is appearing a tad misguided at this point - unless of course he would happen to check with Partial first.

[Bossman641]

If you want to talk "it", Vince Young has the IT(Moxy) that I look for. Alex Smith started as a rookie on a bad team. VY started as a rookie on a bad team. How many times did Alex Smith lead his equally talented team back? How many plays did AS make? Young has the moxy and intangibles I look for in spades.

I would propose that a QB who can not withstand the pressure of fan criticism is clearly lacking the "it" factor you mention so often. Every QB will fail, and will fail often. He has to bounce back from those failures. Can Vince Young do that? Its not looking too good right now.

While I was looking around the other day for some Vince Young stats I came across this quote from Norm Chow. It was made after Young won the ROY award. I can't help but chuckle reading it.

Chow, who worked with Heisman Trophy winners Leinart and Carson Palmer at Southern California, is considered one of the finest teachers of quarterbacks in the business. What does he like most about Young, who left Texas after his junior season?

"Besides the physical skills, it's the will and the strength inside, the 'it' factor that a quarterback either has or doesn't have," Chow said. "Obviously, he has it. The quickness in which he won the team over and the quickness in which he became the leader, the guy everybody looked up to, that was special.

"Vince Young has this great ability to lift others around him. To see him do it so quickly, that wasn't a surprise, but it was certainly good to see."

LOL. At least Chow agreed that Young has the vaunted "it" factor Partial goes on and on about. Of course, Chow later got fired and there were rumors flying around that VY had something to do with it.

[Bossman641]

Partial wrote:

Are you insinuating Kerry Collins stellar passing is what carried the Titans this year? Are you trying to tell me that they aren't primarily a running team?!? Are you trying to tell me that Kerry Collins running behind a massive OL is better than VY?

Hint - they were primarily a running team when Vince Young was there playing as well. That, along with a strong defense, is what carried the Titans those years.

[SkinBasket]

You know who had the "it" factor? Rodney Peete.

[Partial]

I now realize that it doesn't matter that a quarterback's two most important qualities in this league are his ability to pass the ball and lead the team - that is if the bestowed one happens to suck at those qualities.

It doesn't matter whether the same team immediately wins more games or less when another quarterback lacking the almighty skills of the bestowed one - but bringing other skills perhaps not obvious to fourth graders - replaces him...

It is the last two minutes of the game that matter - unless of course something bad happens then - which should then be ignored.

Same team? If that was the case then wouldn't the "Aaron Rodgers sucks" crusade be proven correct?!?!? Way to set yourself up to lose one of your own arguments.

Quarterbacks best two qualities? Pass and lead a team? That's very relative. I'd say the ability to win games is the most important attribute, and any way they want to achieve this is fine. Who is to say VY is not redefining the position, the way many OC are running their offenses today?

While it's true that passing is the most important part of a traditional QB, Young is not that sort of player. He's a hybrid, like Tebow, thus the discussion.

Last two minutes: That's when players earn their paychecks. VY has been lights out in the last few minutes of games.

Why don't you try actually disputing a post on an intellectual level instead of the sarcasm, guy.

[Partial]

How someone can spend this much time and effort championing a QB who spent the year on the bench after a mediocre start to his career by any recordable measure is absurd.

Vince Young had one of the hottest starts for a quarterback in NFL history. I'm not sure what you're talking about. He took a bad team that picked third to the playoffs. He won games in the 4th quarter when they were down. He went to the pro bowl.

That is a pretty good start to me.

[Patler]

After all that went on this year, will the team still accept VY as a leader?
He may have to start over elsewhere. At a minimum he will have to win over his own team mates again, and that will not be easy.

[SkinBasket]

Who is to say VY is not redefining the position, the way many OC are running their offenses today?

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Redefining the position! Are all future superstars going to redefine the game from the bench from now on? That's actually really fucking funny.

Why don't you try actually disputing a post on an intellectual level instead of the sarcasm, guy.

I think his point, which is a very valid point, is that there is nothing on an intellectual level in your arguments to dispute. You're being a fucktard, and at this point, it's hard to believe you're not doing it on purpose. Well, it would be hard to believe if you didn't have so many precedents for this kind of strange, stubborn, willfull stupidity.

[Partial]

Partial wrote:

Are you insinuating Kerry Collins stellar passing is what carried the Titans this year? Are you trying to tell me that they aren't primarily a running team?!? Are you trying to tell me that Kerry Collins running behind a massive OL is better than VY?

Hint - they were primarily a running team when Vince Young was there playing as well. That, along with a strong defense, is what carried the Titans those years.

They weren't primarily anything considering LenDale was average, Travis Henry was gone, Arizona Henry has a career 120 yards rushing and Johnson is a rookie.

His rookie year, they were dead last in the NFL in total defense. How's that for a rushing and defensive team. Yet he still managed to carry them, and get the job done in the 4th. They also gave up 25 ppg, where as many people in here equated to giving up anything more than 20 points is doing an unacceptable, completely shitty job.

Of course they're a running team. They have a versatile athlete at QB. He accounts for a good chunk of their yards(500 yards on the ground average - which certainly gives them a HUGE boost in running statistics), as well as keeping the defense honest. Plus, there receivers are garbage at best.

Replacing the yards Young rushed for (500 average) with the yards your average QB rushes for (looked at A-Rod, 200), the Titans ranked 16th in the league his rookie year in rushing, with the last place defense. He carried that team. In 2007, oddly enough they ranked 16th again with the 200 yards instead of 500, but this year there defense was quite a bit better than last place.

With that said, I think it is very safe to say that he contributed a TON to that offense. Any QB does, because the ball is in their hand almost every offensive snap.

Dude is a straight up play maker. Watch out for him next year. I predict the Titans are led to a super bowl by Young.

[SkinBasket]

I should add that I refuse to be a part of this thread continuing to exist. I was wrong for playing a part in the rapidly spreading idiocy that this discussion now represents. Depending on what his motivations are, I will no longer encourage the trolling and/or enable Partial to continue to flounder in his own absurd delusions any longer.

[Cheesehead Craig]

His rookie year, they were dead last in the NFL in total defense. How's that for a rushing and defensive team. Yet he still managed to carry them, and get the job done in the 4th... He carried that team.

Disproven in my previous post analyzing his games.

[vince]

Same team? If that was the case then wouldn't the "Aaron Rodgers sucks" crusade be proven correct?!?!?

Uhhh, no. Concluding that Aaron Rodgers sucks because the team was not successful this season demonstrates the same kind of inability to accurately link cause and effect that leads people to do very stupid things in life. These are the same kinds of inaccurate linkages you've been making in this and other threads in your stubborn attempts to support your statements about one player or another.

Sometimes I wonder if you can possibly believe what you write. As I write that, it seems like others have made similar comments… I wonder why?

In one thread you use a single game as evidence to support your opinion, and in the next you dismiss a single game as inadequate evidence to disprove your opinion. In this thread you rest on a rookie of the year award to support your anointment, and in another you completely ignore a 2nd place vote in the league MVP and an entire team’s collective assessment of a player's contributions because they contradict your opinion.

You continually use the team's win/loss record to denigrate Aaron Rodgers as if he's the sole reason for the team's failures, while giving his receivers all the credit for his top 10 passing achievements.

Then, you completely ignore Vince Young's less than stellar win/loss record relative to his journeyman immediate successor's and then stubbornly and illogically declare him a “winner.” Then you go on to declare him a Super Bowl champion, perennial pro-bowler and one of the greatest of all time.

Then, when challenged with a real cause and effect assessment of the player's performance, you totally ignore it and keep your head in the clouds, spewing pie-in-the-sky meaningless platitudes - while denigrating those who disagree with you - all about a guy who appears to be hanging onto his roster spot only by virtue of the high cost to cut him. He reportedly doesn’t get along with his teammates, came close to committing suicide when booed as a result of his continued utter lack of accuracy and propensity to throw the ball to the wrong team, and you rationalize it all away.

You don’t even try to connect cause and effect most of the time and choose to completely ignore factual evidence or detailed analysis that contradicts your opinions. And the rest of the time you break logical linkages and/or make illogical linkages all over the place.

Whatever it takes to hold on with dear life to your own misguided perception of your superior ability to judge NFL talent.

[channtheman]

Getting back on track with what this topic was actually about. It appears there was no point to make this as neither of those QB's are entering the NFL draft this spring.