National Championship QBs

[SkinBasket]

Wow, you guys are ridiculous.

Some of you are jokes.

Sometimes I wonder how some of you make it through the day..

And strangely enough, you stand alone on this. So you must be right. You aren't ridiculous, everyone else is. You aren't the joke, it's the rest of the world with egg on it's face.

Your concern for everyone else's ability to make it through the day is cute from this side of reality though.

[Bossman641]

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Let's go through game by game for Aaron Rodgers.

Troll? Hardly. NFL executives, sports writers, fans and other players agrees agree with me. Otherwise Young wouldn't have a pro bowl appearance or a ROTY award to his name. I'm guessing that he didn't deserve that one either...

3 come from behind wins as a rookie. Something our veteran team cannot seem to get done. On the arm and legs of a star, something we don't have. Doesn't get any credit for these either! Nope. Playmakers carrying a team on their back and doing what it takes to win games in "the best division in football" as a rookie don't get any credit.

Yet our grizzled veteran in his 4th year (who looked like hell his first two years, btw), gets immense credit for leading an extremely talented team (far more talented than VYs teams) to a 6-10 record. Explain that logic? There isn't any. It's called blatant homerism and "don't know anything about football"ism.

pro bowls.... playoffs... prestigious awards... 61% winning percentage voted on by their peers and coaches... We don't appreciate any of that! We waved goodbye to that last summer! Instead, we appreciate and even defend to the death underachievement, losing records, 37% winning percetange, relaxing in january instead of cheering on our team, etc.

Some of you are jokes.

Again, Grossman has a 61% winning percentage as a starter. Judging a qb on the TEAM's winning percentage isn't really a good stat to look at. He can only control 1 of 3 phases.

He went through and broke down Young's performance in every game. Are you really going to argue that your beliefs are more correct than facts?

[Partial]

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Let's go through game by game for Aaron Rodgers.

Troll? Hardly. NFL executives, sports writers, fans and other players agrees agree with me. Otherwise Young wouldn't have a pro bowl appearance or a ROTY award to his name. I'm guessing that he didn't deserve that one either...

3 come from behind wins as a rookie. Something our veteran team cannot seem to get done. On the arm and legs of a star, something we don't have. Doesn't get any credit for these either! Nope. Playmakers carrying a team on their back and doing what it takes to win games in "the best division in football" as a rookie don't get any credit.

Yet our grizzled veteran in his 4th year (who looked like hell his first two years, btw), gets immense credit for leading an extremely talented team (far more talented than VYs teams) to a 6-10 record. Explain that logic? There isn't any. It's called blatant homerism and "don't know anything about football"ism.

pro bowls.... playoffs... prestigious awards... 61% winning percentage voted on by their peers and coaches... We don't appreciate any of that! We waved goodbye to that last summer! Instead, we appreciate and even defend to the death underachievement, losing records, 37% winning percetange, relaxing in january instead of cheering on our team, etc.

Some of you are jokes.

Again, Grossman has a 61% winning percentage as a starter. Judging a qb on the TEAM's winning percentage isn't really a good stat to look at. He can only control 1 of 3 phases.

He went through and broke down Young's performance in every game. Are you really going to argue that your beliefs are more correct than facts?

Actually, he didn't. He chose some of the games, and rated his "impact" using some arbitrary scale. Does he have game tape of those games? Is he watching tape to make assessments? Unless he is, I don't buy any of it.

Quite frankly, I don't really care what you think. If you want to ignore obvious physical talent, so be it. You guys are a bunch of homers. You were all in denial when interviewed scouts ranked Rodgers 19th after his 4th year.

I don't understand how Young's performance isn't incredible for a rookie quarterback. Everyone knew he was going to struggle throwing the ball early as he had to completely reshape his mechanics. Remember when A-Rod was relearning his mechanics as a rookie? Do you Bossman? Please answer this question. Do you remember how awful A-Rod looked as a rookie and sophomore? That's because their game is still sophomoric.

The difference is a playmaker wins games using what he has. I don't care about his passing stats as a rookie. They're completely irrelevant imo. You can say the "impact" is just about minimal for EVERY rookie QB ever. Young was like Matt Ryan. He straight up won games. W is the only stat that matters.

[SkinBasket]

Partial, you lose.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Actually, he didn't. He chose some of the games, and rated his "impact" using some arbitrary scale. Does he have game tape of those games? Is he watching tape to make assessments? Unless he is, I don't buy any of it.

I chose every game he started as a rookie. I wanted to see for myself how his games were and how relevent his play was to how the overall record was. You kept touting about how he carried the team on his back as a rookie.

Show me in my assessment where I am wrong about Vince's impact in the games his rookie year. Come on Partial. You keep touting how damn smart you are, let's see it. Prove me wrong.

Did I watch every play? No. Have you? No. If you say I can't judge him because of that, then neither can you.

W is the only stat that matters.

You want to just use wins and losses to rate him. Fine. Then by your scale, Grossman is a better QB than Young as he has more wins and you can't argue that. Your manlove for Young is pathetic and blinds you to any real assessment of Young.

[Bossman641]

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Let's go through game by game for Aaron Rodgers.

Troll? Hardly. NFL executives, sports writers, fans and other players agrees agree with me. Otherwise Young wouldn't have a pro bowl appearance or a ROTY award to his name. I'm guessing that he didn't deserve that one either...

3 come from behind wins as a rookie. Something our veteran team cannot seem to get done. On the arm and legs of a star, something we don't have. Doesn't get any credit for these either! Nope. Playmakers carrying a team on their back and doing what it takes to win games in "the best division in football" as a rookie don't get any credit.

Yet our grizzled veteran in his 4th year (who looked like hell his first two years, btw), gets immense credit for leading an extremely talented team (far more talented than VYs teams) to a 6-10 record. Explain that logic? There isn't any. It's called blatant homerism and "don't know anything about football"ism.

pro bowls.... playoffs... prestigious awards... 61% winning percentage voted on by their peers and coaches... We don't appreciate any of that! We waved goodbye to that last summer! Instead, we appreciate and even defend to the death underachievement, losing records, 37% winning percetange, relaxing in january instead of cheering on our team, etc.

Some of you are jokes.

Again, Grossman has a 61% winning percentage as a starter. Judging a qb on the TEAM's winning percentage isn't really a good stat to look at. He can only control 1 of 3 phases.

He went through and broke down Young's performance in every game. Are you really going to argue that your beliefs are more correct than facts?

Actually, he didn't. He chose some of the games, and rated his "impact" using some arbitrary scale. Does he have game tape of those games? Is he watching tape to make assessments? Unless he is, I don't buy any of it.

Quite frankly, I don't really care what you think. If you want to ignore obvious physical talent, so be it. You guys are a bunch of homers. You were all in denial when interviewed scouts ranked Rodgers 19th after his 4th year.

I don't understand how Young's performance isn't incredible for a rookie quarterback. Everyone knew he was going to struggle throwing the ball early as he had to completely reshape his mechanics. Remember when A-Rod was relearning his mechanics as a rookie? Do you Bossman? Please answer this question. Do you remember how awful A-Rod looked as a rookie and sophomore? That's because their game is still sophomoric.

The difference is a playmaker wins games using what he has. I don't care about his passing stats as a rookie. They're completely irrelevant imo. You can say the "impact" is just about minimal for EVERY rookie QB ever. Young was like Matt Ryan. He straight up won games. W is the only stat that matters.

Actually he went through his entire rookie year. I don't have the time to go through his sophomore year, but judging by his stats (12 TD and 13 INT as a rookie, 9 TD and 17 INT in his 2nd year) I'm guessing it wouldn't be too pretty.

Did I ignore he has physical talent? No I didn't. He is extremely gifted. If you put a good head on VY's body you'd have a terrific player. Problem is, he doesn't have it upstairs, not in a football sense and possibly not at all. I could care less about "scouts" ranking Rodgers 19th. I told you where I'd rank him in that list and I believe it was about 14th or 15th with a lot of room to grow. Is that being a homer?

And yea I do remember how Rodgers looked as a rookie. I'm not making an argument that he was good in his first or second year. He has taken the step. You're basing your entire argument on the fact that Young looked like he had potential as a rookie. That's what he still looks like. He hasn't moved forward, he maybe never will. He is coming to a crossroads and it appears like he has no sense of urgency at all.

I think Ryan will be very good, not just because he won games, but because he looked good playing them as well. He looked like an NFL QB. Vince didn't, and still doesn't.

[channtheman]

Wow Partial, I and maybe others start to think you have turned into a good poster who makes good points and then you go back to this. I cannot believe the things that you say and actually believe. Either that or you are the most successful troll ever.

[vince]

Performance be damned. Nevermind his 22 TD's vs. 32 INT's or his 68 passer rating. Forget about the fact that his backup took over, and the team immediately became the winningest team in the league after being a 9-7 team under a bestowed one's immortal presence behind center. After all, he was a college and high school god and had a come-from-behind win three years ago.

Nothing nor noone can deny those who have been bestowed "it" by the one and only. So please stop with the ridiculous attempts at logic and reasoned analysis. They simply don't apply here.

If statistics support your argument, well, it's not about stats you see. If they support the one and only's argument, well then you can't deny the truth.

If you isolate performance and compare a player who outperformed a bestowed one to support your argument, well then the rest of the team was responsible for the inflated stats of your guy, but the bestowed one still singlehandedly overcame the burden of his team to perform heroically.

If it's wins and losses, well it of course depends on whether those wins support the bestowed one or not as to whether he is to be solely credited for them - or if the rest of the team is to be blamed. If it's your guy's wins and losses, then naturally, it depends on the numbers as to whether he is to be solely blamed for them - or if the rest of the team will be credited with them in spite of your guy.

But of course, if we're talking about someone has not been bestowed with "it," these arguments all work exactly in reverse - as they should.

This is universal and should be applied to all NFL players. Deny these truthes and you shall be ROFL'd and ridiculed and deemed clueless, and you shall deserve it.

[Partial]

Performance be damned. Nevermind his 22 TD's vs. 32 INT's or his 68 passer rating. Forget about the fact that his backup took over, and the team immediately became the winningest team in the league after being a 9-7 team under a bestowed one's immortal presence behind center. After all, he was a college and high school god and had a come-from-behind win three years ago.

So what? The Packers went 8-8 and went to 13-3. It's called rebuilding, guy. What don't you understand about him being an immature passer who was winning using his unique skillset, instead of being a pure passer. I didn't realize it's fair to judge a versatile athlete on strictly his passing statistics when everyone and their mother knows there is:
A) Far more to his game than that
B) an undeveloped passer
C) Passing is the least important facet of his game

Are you insinuating Kerry Collins stellar passing is what carried the Titans this year? Are you trying to tell me that they aren't primarily a running team?!? Are you trying to tell me that Kerry Collins running behind a massive OL is better than VY?

Laughable, guy.

Note all the teams putting a big back in the wild cat formation. Vince Young is the ULTIMATE wildcat.

The rest of your post is really stupid. Aaron Rodgers wouldn't have gotten any flack from me if he had.

All along, I have said I don't care about Aaron's stats because he has good stats. That doesn't make him a good quarterback. He is an average quarterback who doesn't win games. He doesn't have a "special" quality about him. He has a top 10 arm, average physique, average athleticism? For all intents and purposes, by the end of his 4th year, it looks like he is what he will be. An average to above average quarterback.

Vince Young, on the other hand, has off the chart athleticism, a picture-perfect physique for the position, and an average arm. The complete package so far has resulted in a quarterback who WINS games in the clutch. He's better in the final two minutes than he is in the previous 58. That's a quality that I look for in a gamer. He has barely begun to tap into his potential.

Vince Young is off the charts in every thing that you judge a QB on except arm and leadership. If you recall with Aaron Rodgers, he had an average arm coming out. That will come in time, just like it did for noodle armed Aaron coming out. As evidence by the Packers collapse from contender to pretender, Aaron is lacking the leadership, too. That will come in time for Vince without a doubt, and hopefully Aaron, too.

Clueless? I think it's pretty ignorant, ill-informed, and downright stupid to judge a quarterback who is admittedly very raw and a below average passer to this point exclusively on the weakest point of his game. That would be like calling TO a terrible receiver because he doesn't have the best hands. Same thing. Judging an extremely skilled player on the weakest facet of their game.

If you want to talk "it", Vince Young has the IT(Moxy) that I look for. Alex Smith started as a rookie on a bad team. VY started as a rookie on a bad team. How many times did Alex Smith lead his equally talented team back? How many plays did AS make? Young has the moxy and intangibles I look for in spades.

With that said, you can think whatever you'd like, Vince. Your insane opinions on Chad SUPERSTAR MVP Pennington are almost as laughable as list. You've shown time and time again that your ability to recognize talent is questionable at best.

[vince]

I have come to accept all this Partial, and recognize that you are the one and only. I bow in your honor and plea for more of your wisdom.

I now realize that it doesn't matter that a quarterback's two most important qualities in this league are his ability to pass the ball and lead the team - that is if the bestowed one happens to suck at those qualities.

It doesn't matter whether the same team immediately wins more games or less when another quarterback lacking the almighty skills of the bestowed one - but bringing other skills perhaps not obvious to fourth graders - replaces him...

It is the last two minutes of the game that matter - unless of course something bad happens then - which should then be ignored.

I humbly accept your ROFL's and ask for more. I think I am beginning to learn, but I realize that I have only scratched the surface of understanding what it takes to have "it."

[Zool]

I had 'it' once, but i went to the Dr and got a shot. Cleared right up.

[vince]

I had 'it' once, but i went to the Dr and got a shot. Cleared right up.

Clearly that doctor was the one and only. Otherwise, how could you be sure?

[SkinBasket]

I'm starting to think that someone hacked Partial's account, changed his avatar and sig, and is now having fun making Partial look dumber than usual - which is actually a pretty impressive accomplishment.

How someone can spend this much time and effort championing a QB who spent the year on the bench after a mediocre start to his career by any recordable measure is absurd. Who knows, maybe he killed his handler and is now a feral tard, savagely abusing himself and his keyboard until he perishes from dehydration.

[Patler]

Vince Young is off the charts in every thing that you judge a QB on except arm and leadership.

Lucky for him, most coaches don't care too much about their QB's ability to throw the ball or lead the team, so long as he is really, really good on the center exchange!

[Patler]

If you want to talk "it", Vince Young has the IT(Moxy) that I look for. Alex Smith started as a rookie on a bad team. VY started as a rookie on a bad team. How many times did Alex Smith lead his equally talented team back? How many plays did AS make? Young has the moxy and intangibles I look for in spades.

I would propose that a QB who can not withstand the pressure of fan criticism is clearly lacking the "it" factor you mention so often. Every QB will fail, and will fail often. He has to bounce back from those failures. Can Vince Young do that? Its not looking too good right now.