Packers watching orakpo closely

[Lurker64]

You guys are whack. How do you know they regret it? Have they cut him lose? Have they expressed this at all. Clearly they thought he was worth it 11 months ago, or they wouldn't have traded.

He's playing a different position. His stats are going to be different as he plays a different role.

But at the same time, considering that the Cleveland GM just got fired, that it might have been a slight miscalculation by Cleveland to trade for a 4-3 DT who was absolutely fabulous at shooting a gap, and converting him to a 3-4 DE who is responsible for controlling two gaps?

Williams is a great physical specimen for 3-4 DE, but his skillset makes him much better for a 1-gap 3-4 than a 2-gap 3-4. Cleveland simply doesn't have the personnel for the 2-gap 3-4, but they're unlikely to change since they replaced a New England guy with a New England guy, and the only people running the 2-gap 3-4 in the NFL these days are Belichik and his disciples.

Oddly enough, Corey Williams would be a great guy for us to have now, possibly even at the money he's getting. I'd be happy to give up Brohm for him...

[Gunakor]

CAPS...

Partial, Williams' production just didn't go down when named a starter. He disappeared when named a starter. Did next to nothing worthwhile as a starter. As in he wasn't a starter. Isn't a starter. Doesn't deserve a starters salary. Got one from someone else, glad he didn't get one from us.

WHAT DEFINES A STARTER? HE PLAYED A FAIR AMOUNT OF SNAPS, AS WE SPEND MORE TIME IN NICKEL THAN THE BASE DEFENSE ANYWAY. HE'S NOT A GREAT RUN DEFENDER, BUT HE IS AN EXCELLENT PASS RUSHER FROM INSIDE AS HE HAS SHOWN WITH HIS NUMBERS OVER THE COURSE OF TWO YEARS BEING ELITE.

KGB DID NEXT TO NOTHING AS A STARTER. AS A MATTER OF FACT, THERE ARE PLENTY OF PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE WHO ARE MUCH BETTER PASS RUSHERS THAN RUN DEFENDERS, AND ARE PAID ACCORDINGLY. I THINK YOUR DEFINITION IS REALLY RIGID AND QUITE FRANKLY OUTDATED WITH THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED TODAY.

THE FACT IS COREY WILLIAMS WAS A VERY EFFECTIVE PLAYER WHEN IN A SOLID ROTATION. AS WE SAW LAST YEAR, WHEN THERE ISN'T ANY DEPTH, IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ANY PLAYER TO BE EFFECTIVE.

CULLEN JENKINS IS LOVED ON THIS BOARD, YET HE HAS DONE NEXT TO NOTHING AS A STARTER. HE HAD 4 GREAT WEEKS, A YEAR BELOW THE COACHES EXPECTATIONS, AND AN INJURED YEAR. I DON'T SEE HOW ONE CAN LOVE CULLEN AND THINK HE IS A SOLID/GOOD/GREAT PLAYER WHEN SAID PERSON THINKS COREY WILLIAMS WAS A POOR PLAYER AND STARTER.


Give me Jenkins at Jenkins salary over Williams at Williams' salary any day of the week. The Browns regret paying Williams as much as they did, and we would have if we had signed him also.

SOURCE? AGAIN, MORE SPECULATION.

Williams would not have signed for less money with us. You are assuming that without doing any research into the matter whatsoever, just like all of your assumptions. Had we offered him a backups salary he'd have just went to FA where he could get starters money. We tagged him so we could trade him and get something in return.

I AGREE WE DON'T KNOW IF HE'D SIGN FOR LESS THE YEAR BEFORE. I DON'T THINK THEY MADE MUCH ATTEMPT TO. HOW MUCH DOES HE EVEN GET PAID IN GUARANTEES?

YOU'D TAKE A PLAYER WHO CAN'T STAY ON THE FIELD AND PRODUCE OVER A PLAYER WHO HAS BEEN HEALTHY AND PRODUCTIVE HIS ENTIRE CAREER? COREY WILLIAMS WAS A DAMN GOOD PASS RUSHER FOR US... ARE YOU KIDDING ME DUDE?

At no point were we willing to pay him the money he was asking for, because at no point in his career was he worth that salary. Kudos TT for making that trade happen, as we got a highly rated prospect at a much more valuable position in return for dumping that lazy ass.

LAZY? WHERE? I'VE SEEN ZERO INDICATION THAT HE IS LAZY. FAT? HE'S A DEFENSIVE TACKLE. IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE SLIM? BY DEFENSIVE TACKLE STANDARDS, HE IS HARDLY FAT.

YOU'RE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

DID YOU EVEN WATCH A SNAP OF HIM IN CLEVELAND THIS YEAR? READ ANY REPORTS COMING OUT OF CLEVELAND ABOUT THEIR EVALUATION OF HIM? YOU ARE THE ONE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH!!! GO DO SOME RESEARCH ON THE TOPIC AND GET BACK TO ME!!!!

[Gunakor]

You guys are whack. How do you know they regret it? Have they cut him lose? Have they expressed this at all. Clearly they thought he was worth it 11 months ago, or they wouldn't have traded.

He's playing a different position. His stats are going to be different as he plays a different role.

Well, it seems things have changed in the 11 months since the trade.

They can't get rid of him. They can't afford the cap hit that would come with it. It was a monster contract they signed him to. A monster contract he has not lived up to. A monster contract they are now regretting paying him, a monster contract they cannot get rid of.

Williams had a few descent games last year. I hear that his week 12 game he played alright, as he did not miss a tackle that day. Good for him. But I can't find any other positive articles about him from last year, yet have found several that have labeled him a disappointment from last year. So I guess he's not garbage, but still garbage value for the contract he was signed to. And they're upset about it. And at this point, they are questioning his desire to be the player they paid for.

So the question stands, would you rather it be Cleveland regretting having to pay him a monster contract, or Green Bay?

[Lurker64]

Having spent a half hour or so cruising Browns message boards for opinions on Corey Williams, I've noticed a few trends among fans.

"Williams is only good as a 4-3 DT"

"(Browns GM) Savage doesn't understand the 3-4 defense, that's why he traded for a guy like Corey Williams."

"Williams could be okay, but he was hurt all of last year, and he was really struggling with the adjustment to the 3-4"

"Corey Williams is a question mark: we don't know if he can stay healthy or adjust to the defense."

"I would attempt to move Williams to a 4-3 team looking for a tackle, all guys can't adjust to moving inside from tackle and playing end in a 3-4 and I feel Williams is that type of player and also he does not have the speed we need from the DE position"

"stallworth and corey williams are interesting cases. they're both being paid way too much for what they produce"

"Not sure that Corey Williams was ever great as a 4-3 DT. If you break him down game by game, virtually all of his sacks in '07 came in the games in which he was brought in on passing downs. When he started, he was decent against the run, but he didn't have a lot of sacks."

"Don't be surprised if the Browns try to move Cory Williams. He just isn't a good fit in the 2 gap 3-4 system. Or, maybe he jsut didn't want to be a good fit in the 3-4. "

"Overrating that clown KILLED us because Robaire Smith was on IR so we had no solutions for him. I don't care what excuses are offered - he STUNK in a 3-4 so the idea was atrocious. It also means we didn't feel compelled to draft anyone there. We paid him a Pro Bowl salary and got an exchange value of 0 sacks even though Savage was excited about his ability to rush the passer. When you have more offsides penalties than sacks as a millionaire - let's just say I'm glad the OWNER asked "why the freak am I paying this sweat the GNP of a couple small countries?""

Seems like the affection for Williams is a lot more sincere in Packerdom than it is in Browns-dom. Also, fans are funny...

[Gunakor]

I'd like to challenge you Partial to produce any reports that Williams is somehow worth a 6 year 38 million dollar contract. Show me the production that warrants that type of salary. Doesn't have to be sacks. Tackles, pressures, forced fumbles, whatever. Use anything you want to try to justify his salary. What has he done that is worth that kind of money?

[Waldo]

CAPS...

Partial, Williams' production just didn't go down when named a starter. He disappeared when named a starter. Did next to nothing worthwhile as a starter. As in he wasn't a starter. Isn't a starter. Doesn't deserve a starters salary. Got one from someone else, glad he didn't get one from us.

WHAT DEFINES A STARTER? HE PLAYED A FAIR AMOUNT OF SNAPS, AS WE SPEND MORE TIME IN NICKEL THAN THE BASE DEFENSE ANYWAY. HE'S NOT A GREAT RUN DEFENDER, BUT HE IS AN EXCELLENT PASS RUSHER FROM INSIDE AS HE HAS SHOWN WITH HIS NUMBERS OVER THE COURSE OF TWO YEARS BEING ELITE.

KGB DID NEXT TO NOTHING AS A STARTER. AS A MATTER OF FACT, THERE ARE PLENTY OF PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE WHO ARE MUCH BETTER PASS RUSHERS THAN RUN DEFENDERS, AND ARE PAID ACCORDINGLY. I THINK YOUR DEFINITION IS REALLY RIGID AND QUITE FRANKLY OUTDATED WITH THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED TODAY.

THE FACT IS COREY WILLIAMS WAS A VERY EFFECTIVE PLAYER WHEN IN A SOLID ROTATION. AS WE SAW LAST YEAR, WHEN THERE ISN'T ANY DEPTH, IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ANY PLAYER TO BE EFFECTIVE.

CULLEN JENKINS IS LOVED ON THIS BOARD, YET HE HAS DONE NEXT TO NOTHING AS A STARTER. HE HAD 4 GREAT WEEKS, A YEAR BELOW THE COACHES EXPECTATIONS, AND AN INJURED YEAR. I DON'T SEE HOW ONE CAN LOVE CULLEN AND THINK HE IS A SOLID/GOOD/GREAT PLAYER WHEN SAID PERSON THINKS COREY WILLIAMS WAS A POOR PLAYER AND STARTER.


Give me Jenkins at Jenkins salary over Williams at Williams' salary any day of the week. The Browns regret paying Williams as much as they did, and we would have if we had signed him also.

SOURCE? AGAIN, MORE SPECULATION.

Williams would not have signed for less money with us. You are assuming that without doing any research into the matter whatsoever, just like all of your assumptions. Had we offered him a backups salary he'd have just went to FA where he could get starters money. We tagged him so we could trade him and get something in return.

I AGREE WE DON'T KNOW IF HE'D SIGN FOR LESS THE YEAR BEFORE. I DON'T THINK THEY MADE MUCH ATTEMPT TO. HOW MUCH DOES HE EVEN GET PAID IN GUARANTEES?

YOU'D TAKE A PLAYER WHO CAN'T STAY ON THE FIELD AND PRODUCE OVER A PLAYER WHO HAS BEEN HEALTHY AND PRODUCTIVE HIS ENTIRE CAREER? COREY WILLIAMS WAS A DAMN GOOD PASS RUSHER FOR US... ARE YOU KIDDING ME DUDE?

At no point were we willing to pay him the money he was asking for, because at no point in his career was he worth that salary. Kudos TT for making that trade happen, as we got a highly rated prospect at a much more valuable position in return for dumping that lazy ass.

LAZY? WHERE? I'VE SEEN ZERO INDICATION THAT HE IS LAZY. FAT? HE'S A DEFENSIVE TACKLE. IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE SLIM? BY DEFENSIVE TACKLE STANDARDS, HE IS HARDLY FAT.

YOU'RE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

DID YOU EVEN WATCH A SNAP OF HIM IN CLEVELAND THIS YEAR? READ ANY REPORTS COMING OUT OF CLEVELAND ABOUT THEIR EVALUATION OF HIM? YOU ARE THE ONE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH!!! GO DO SOME RESEARCH ON THE TOPIC AND GET BACK TO ME!!!!

[Gunakor]

CAPS...

Partial, Williams' production just didn't go down when named a starter. He disappeared when named a starter. Did next to nothing worthwhile as a starter. As in he wasn't a starter. Isn't a starter. Doesn't deserve a starters salary. Got one from someone else, glad he didn't get one from us.

WHAT DEFINES A STARTER? HE PLAYED A FAIR AMOUNT OF SNAPS, AS WE SPEND MORE TIME IN NICKEL THAN THE BASE DEFENSE ANYWAY. HE'S NOT A GREAT RUN DEFENDER, BUT HE IS AN EXCELLENT PASS RUSHER FROM INSIDE AS HE HAS SHOWN WITH HIS NUMBERS OVER THE COURSE OF TWO YEARS BEING ELITE.

KGB DID NEXT TO NOTHING AS A STARTER. AS A MATTER OF FACT, THERE ARE PLENTY OF PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE WHO ARE MUCH BETTER PASS RUSHERS THAN RUN DEFENDERS, AND ARE PAID ACCORDINGLY. I THINK YOUR DEFINITION IS REALLY RIGID AND QUITE FRANKLY OUTDATED WITH THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED TODAY.

THE FACT IS COREY WILLIAMS WAS A VERY EFFECTIVE PLAYER WHEN IN A SOLID ROTATION. AS WE SAW LAST YEAR, WHEN THERE ISN'T ANY DEPTH, IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ANY PLAYER TO BE EFFECTIVE.

CULLEN JENKINS IS LOVED ON THIS BOARD, YET HE HAS DONE NEXT TO NOTHING AS A STARTER. HE HAD 4 GREAT WEEKS, A YEAR BELOW THE COACHES EXPECTATIONS, AND AN INJURED YEAR. I DON'T SEE HOW ONE CAN LOVE CULLEN AND THINK HE IS A SOLID/GOOD/GREAT PLAYER WHEN SAID PERSON THINKS COREY WILLIAMS WAS A POOR PLAYER AND STARTER.


Give me Jenkins at Jenkins salary over Williams at Williams' salary any day of the week. The Browns regret paying Williams as much as they did, and we would have if we had signed him also.

SOURCE? AGAIN, MORE SPECULATION.

Williams would not have signed for less money with us. You are assuming that without doing any research into the matter whatsoever, just like all of your assumptions. Had we offered him a backups salary he'd have just went to FA where he could get starters money. We tagged him so we could trade him and get something in return.

I AGREE WE DON'T KNOW IF HE'D SIGN FOR LESS THE YEAR BEFORE. I DON'T THINK THEY MADE MUCH ATTEMPT TO. HOW MUCH DOES HE EVEN GET PAID IN GUARANTEES?

YOU'D TAKE A PLAYER WHO CAN'T STAY ON THE FIELD AND PRODUCE OVER A PLAYER WHO HAS BEEN HEALTHY AND PRODUCTIVE HIS ENTIRE CAREER? COREY WILLIAMS WAS A DAMN GOOD PASS RUSHER FOR US... ARE YOU KIDDING ME DUDE?

At no point were we willing to pay him the money he was asking for, because at no point in his career was he worth that salary. Kudos TT for making that trade happen, as we got a highly rated prospect at a much more valuable position in return for dumping that lazy ass.

LAZY? WHERE? I'VE SEEN ZERO INDICATION THAT HE IS LAZY. FAT? HE'S A DEFENSIVE TACKLE. IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE SLIM? BY DEFENSIVE TACKLE STANDARDS, HE IS HARDLY FAT.

YOU'RE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

DID YOU EVEN WATCH A SNAP OF HIM IN CLEVELAND THIS YEAR? READ ANY REPORTS COMING OUT OF CLEVELAND ABOUT THEIR EVALUATION OF HIM? YOU ARE THE ONE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH!!! GO DO SOME RESEARCH ON THE TOPIC AND GET BACK TO ME!!!!

Yeah Waldo, I know. I was only using caps to respond to his post directed at me that was all caps. Hopefully it pissed him off as much as it did you, and he won't do it again.

[Gunakor]

HOW MUCH DOES HE EVEN GET PAID IN GUARANTEES?

16.3 million guaranteed, roughly half his contract total.

[Lurker64]

HOW MUCH DOES HE EVEN GET PAID IN GUARANTEES?

16.3 million guaranteed, roughly half his contract total.

You forgot to scream your answer.

[Gunakor]

HOW MUCH DOES HE EVEN GET PAID IN GUARANTEES?

16.3 million guaranteed, roughly half his contract total.

You forgot to scream your answer.

No, I'm only gonna do that once, and hope realizes that it's best not to scream the question in the first place.

[Fritz]

CAPS...

Partial, Williams' production just didn't go down when named a starter. He disappeared when named a starter. Did next to nothing worthwhile as a starter. As in he wasn't a starter. Isn't a starter. Doesn't deserve a starters salary. Got one from someone else, glad he didn't get one from us.

WHAT DEFINES A STARTER? HE PLAYED A FAIR AMOUNT OF SNAPS, AS WE SPEND MORE TIME IN NICKEL THAN THE BASE DEFENSE ANYWAY. HE'S NOT A GREAT RUN DEFENDER, BUT HE IS AN EXCELLENT PASS RUSHER FROM INSIDE AS HE HAS SHOWN WITH HIS NUMBERS OVER THE COURSE OF TWO YEARS BEING ELITE.

KGB DID NEXT TO NOTHING AS A STARTER. AS A MATTER OF FACT, THERE ARE PLENTY OF PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE WHO ARE MUCH BETTER PASS RUSHERS THAN RUN DEFENDERS, AND ARE PAID ACCORDINGLY. I THINK YOUR DEFINITION IS REALLY RIGID AND QUITE FRANKLY OUTDATED WITH THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED TODAY.

THE FACT IS COREY WILLIAMS WAS A VERY EFFECTIVE PLAYER WHEN IN A SOLID ROTATION. AS WE SAW LAST YEAR, WHEN THERE ISN'T ANY DEPTH, IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ANY PLAYER TO BE EFFECTIVE.

CULLEN JENKINS IS LOVED ON THIS BOARD, YET HE HAS DONE NEXT TO NOTHING AS A STARTER. HE HAD 4 GREAT WEEKS, A YEAR BELOW THE COACHES EXPECTATIONS, AND AN INJURED YEAR. I DON'T SEE HOW ONE CAN LOVE CULLEN AND THINK HE IS A SOLID/GOOD/GREAT PLAYER WHEN SAID PERSON THINKS COREY WILLIAMS WAS A POOR PLAYER AND STARTER.


Give me Jenkins at Jenkins salary over Williams at Williams' salary any day of the week. The Browns regret paying Williams as much as they did, and we would have if we had signed him also.

SOURCE? AGAIN, MORE SPECULATION.

Williams would not have signed for less money with us. You are assuming that without doing any research into the matter whatsoever, just like all of your assumptions. Had we offered him a backups salary he'd have just went to FA where he could get starters money. We tagged him so we could trade him and get something in return.

I AGREE WE DON'T KNOW IF HE'D SIGN FOR LESS THE YEAR BEFORE. I DON'T THINK THEY MADE MUCH ATTEMPT TO. HOW MUCH DOES HE EVEN GET PAID IN GUARANTEES?

YOU'D TAKE A PLAYER WHO CAN'T STAY ON THE FIELD AND PRODUCE OVER A PLAYER WHO HAS BEEN HEALTHY AND PRODUCTIVE HIS ENTIRE CAREER? COREY WILLIAMS WAS A DAMN GOOD PASS RUSHER FOR US... ARE YOU KIDDING ME DUDE?

At no point were we willing to pay him the money he was asking for, because at no point in his career was he worth that salary. Kudos TT for making that trade happen, as we got a highly rated prospect at a much more valuable position in return for dumping that lazy ass.

LAZY? WHERE? I'VE SEEN ZERO INDICATION THAT HE IS LAZY. FAT? HE'S A DEFENSIVE TACKLE. IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE SLIM? BY DEFENSIVE TACKLE STANDARDS, HE IS HARDLY FAT.

YOU'RE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

DID YOU EVEN WATCH A SNAP OF HIM IN CLEVELAND THIS YEAR? READ ANY REPORTS COMING OUT OF CLEVELAND ABOUT THEIR EVALUATION OF HIM? YOU ARE THE ONE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH!!! GO DO SOME RESEARCH ON THE TOPIC AND GET BACK TO ME!!!!

Yeah Waldo, I know. I was only using caps to respond to his post directed at me that was all caps. Hopefully it pissed him off as much as it did you, and he won't do it again.

The woman in the picture does have a nice rack, though.

[KYPack]

LAZY? WHERE? I'VE SEEN ZERO INDICATION THAT HE IS LAZY. FAT? HE'S A DEFENSIVE TACKLE. IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE SLIM? BY DEFENSIVE TACKLE STANDARDS, HE IS HARDLY FAT.

YOU'RE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Partial, this just ain't been your year.

Do you have your underwear on too tight or something?

Most of your shit this year has been bad news.

Try to pick it up, willya?

[Rastak]

What I've gotten from this argument is that you can't assume a guy who plays well in a 4-3 can do it in a 3-4.

[Partial]

You guys are whack. How do you know they regret it? Have they cut him lose? Have they expressed this at all. Clearly they thought he was worth it 11 months ago, or they wouldn't have traded.

He's playing a different position. His stats are going to be different as he plays a different role.

But at the same time, considering that the Cleveland GM just got fired, that it might have been a slight miscalculation by Cleveland to trade for a 4-3 DT who was absolutely fabulous at shooting a gap, and converting him to a 3-4 DE who is responsible for controlling two gaps?

Williams is a great physical specimen for 3-4 DE, but his skillset makes him much better for a 1-gap 3-4 than a 2-gap 3-4. Cleveland simply doesn't have the personnel for the 2-gap 3-4, but they're unlikely to change since they replaced a New England guy with a New England guy, and the only people running the 2-gap 3-4 in the NFL these days are Belichik and his disciples.

Oddly enough, Corey Williams would be a great guy for us to have now, possibly even at the money he's getting. I'd be happy to give up Brohm for him...

I think this is probably right on. I don't think Cleveland is in any tough position where they are overpaying big time for a horrendous player in Williams. He's a solid starter for them. Maybe not producing to their standards that they paid him, but there are plenty of explanations for that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What I've gotten from this argument is that you can't assume a guy who plays well in a 4-3 can do it in a 3-4.

Or you can expect a pass rushing 4-3 DT to do well as a run stuffing 3-4 DE. I'm not sure we have any good pass rushing 4-3 DTs anymore.