Packers watching orakpo closely

[Gunakor]

Oddly enough, Corey Williams would be a great guy for us to have now, possibly even at the money he's getting. I'd be happy to give up Brohm for him...

Maybe, but not at the money he's getting. 3-4 DE's shouldn't be paid like that. It's not unheard of, but it's more than I'd want to pay at that position. His cap number this year is 8.83 million dollars. Next year his cap number is 8.23 million. That's ALOT of money for a 3-4 DE.

And I'm not so certain I'm ready to give up on Brohm either. Keep in mind it took Rodgers a couple years working with MM before he got it, and that seemed to turn out okay. MM is a fantastic QB coach. He even got a good year or two out of Aaron Brooks in New Orleans, as others have noted. With time I think Brohm could develop into a starting caliber QB. Then, after several years having a pretty good to great backup QB, we can trade him to a QB deprived team (outside the NFC North) to recoup the pick spent on him.

[wist43]

LAZY? WHERE? I'VE SEEN ZERO INDICATION THAT HE IS LAZY. FAT? HE'S A DEFENSIVE TACKLE. IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE SLIM? BY DEFENSIVE TACKLE STANDARDS, HE IS HARDLY FAT.

YOU'RE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Partial, this just ain't been your year.

Do you have your underwear on too tight or something?

Most of your shit this year has been bad news.

Try to pick it up, willya?

Easy for a 60 year old guy to say... sittin there in ur easy chair

[KYPack]

LAZY? WHERE? I'VE SEEN ZERO INDICATION THAT HE IS LAZY. FAT? HE'S A DEFENSIVE TACKLE. IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE SLIM? BY DEFENSIVE TACKLE STANDARDS, HE IS HARDLY FAT.

YOU'RE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Partial, this just ain't been your year.

Do you have your underwear on too tight or something?

Most of your shit this year has been bad news.

Try to pick it up, willya?

Easy for a 60 year old guy to say... sittin there in ur easy chair

I knew I never shudda made that dern post.

Freakin' Crown Royal, anyhow.

That was little harsh on 'ol P, but sheesh! The boy has been on a bad run lately.

[Partial]

For what, exactly? You quoted me saying that Corey Williams isn't fat or lazy by DT standards. Do you have anything to counter that argument?

[Guiness]

The woman in the picture does have a nice rack, though.

Looks like Wonderbra magic to me.

[Tarlam!]

For what, exactly? You quoted me saying that Corey Williams isn't fat or lazy by DT standards. Do you have anything to counter that argument?

Apart from Williams' work ethic, your position in this argument, Partial, is just plain ornery. KY has pointed out that this has become a trend in your posting.

You always have tried to be the devil's advocate, which is fine. But lately, you've really lost a lot of credibility due to what seems to be just plain stubbornness, or, sadly, ignorance.

I have never claimed know much about football, but I read the positions of the posters here quite carefully. You are living on an island with your positions, Mate.

[Fritz]

For what, exactly? You quoted me saying that Corey Williams isn't fat or lazy by DT standards. Do you have anything to counter that argument?

Apart from Williams' work ethic, your position in this argument, Partial, is just plain ornery. KY has pointed out that this has become a trend in your posting.

You always have tried to be the devil's advocate, which is fine. But lately, you've really lost a lot of credibility due to what seems to be just plain stubbornness, or, sadly, ignorance.

I have never claimed know much about football, but I read the positions of the posters here quite carefully. You are living on an island with your positions, Mate.

You could, though, say that his opinions are Partially correct.

[Partial]

Nah, somehow people judge me because I don't think Aaron Rodgers is excellent. That's really what it all comes down to. Corey Williams was a great player for us, and was very successful. He was a better pass rusher than a run defender, and when asked to be a 3 down player (aka not the rotation that the rest of the defensive linemen play in -- outside Kampman), he wasn't as effective. Go figure.

This is a completely logical and fair argument. He was very, very good for us. So much so that he had premiere sack numbers for a defensive tackle in his two years prior to departing.

I'm saying value is relative. Corey Williams was a way more valuable part time player to us, when he could be fresh and excellent at his craft. When he was asked to be an every down player, he became only average at everything.

Everyone says he's not worth it, but inside pass rush is the most difficult thing to find in the NFL. Since he left, we haven't had any, we've had poor depth on the line, and we've had overall poor performances on the line. He certainly brought plenty of value.

So, where, exactly, is the opinion arrogant, or ornery-ness. I don't see it at all.

Was it because I used caps? I did that because it is irritating to break things down by paragraphs and add quote tags to each paragraph.

[Tarlam!]

The fact is, Parsch, value is perception. Perception, in business (especially if your the customer), is truth. That's about the first thing I teach my sales people when they begin their trainingg.

And the perception around these parts is that Cleveland got no value, but the Packers did in the Williams trade.

You've stopped short of saying outrightly TT should have paid Williams all that money that Savage did. But you have insinuated it. Should TT have paid all that money, Partial??

We have already established Williams was never going to extend prior to or during his last season, so, if you continue to claim TT should have re-signed him early, then, that is plain stubborn or ignorant. He tried and was dissed by the agent. It was on JSO.

P.S. Arrogant is your word- Ornery and stubbon with the possibility of ignorance are mine.

[Fritz]

Partial, I don't think people dismiss you because you don't love Aaron Rodgers. I think it's that when people try to point out facts that don't support your assertions, you seem to try to backtrack and claim you meant something else, or that those particular facts don't matter. In other words, you seem unwilling to acknowledge that you might, perhaps, be wrong, or that your opinion is only an opinion and that others' opinions might be as good or perhaps better.

Sometimes people make claims that they just can't support - and that's okay, as long as you can admit to that.

I've seen threads where people completely agree with you. Heck, I've agreed with your opinion on a few occasions.

[Partial]

The fact is, Parsch, value is perception. Perception, in business (especially if your the customer), is truth. That's about the first thing I teach my sales people when they begin their trainingg.

And the perception around these parts is that Cleveland got no value, but the Packers did in the Williams trade.

You've stopped short of saying outrightly TT should have paid Williams all that money that Savage did. But you have insinuated it. Should TT have paid all that money, Partial??

We have already established Williams was never going to extend prior to or during his last season, so, if you continue to claim TT should have re-signed him early, then, that is plain stubborn or ignorant. He tried and was dissed by the agent. It was on JSO.

P.S. Arrogant is your word- Ornery and stubbon with the possibility of ignorance are mine.

No, I don't think he should have paid him that much. Do I think he had to? Not necessarily. Do I think he should have been resigned? Maybe. Not sure.

He was a very good player here and excelled in his defined role. The market dictated a price for him, and Cleveland paid it. Do I think they regret that decision? No, because it shows the fans they're willing to try to improve at the very least.

Chris Canty, a 3-4 end, was significantly less productive # wise than Williams, and he signed for more money a year later.

My point is that value is relative, and Williams was not worthless. In fact, he was very valuable to us, and definitely hurt our team when he left.

[Dylan McKay]

I am trying to follow this thread from the Williams point on, the argument on one side was that he was a valuable player to the Packers, but was he valuable enough to resign? Was his value enough to warrant a trade for 2nd round pick? Was he valuable enough to sign for 7.2 million dollars?

Williams had his role on the Packers and he performed quite well as an inside pass rushers. He wasn't a player that could play 60 snaps a game as a tackle. To me you don't pay him as a top ten tackle if he can't control the line of scrimmage on a full time basis. I think getting a 2nd pick for guy that was a part time player that you weren't interested in signing for the longterm was a damn good move on Thompson's part.

[texaspackerbacker]

In reply to partial's post two up from here:

True, but that only became the case when Jenkins went down--in addition to Harrell not playing, KGB fading away, the LB injuries, the Safety injuries, etc.

Some might call it an injury-ruined season.

[Lurker64]

Chris Canty, a 3-4 end, was significantly less productive # wise than Williams, and he signed for more money a year later.

Chris Canty is no longer a 3-4 End, he was paid to play under tackle in the 4-3, which is a significantly higher money position (it's Kevin Williams' and Albert Haynesworth's position). The Giants are taking the same risk in paying Canty big money for a position switch (Canty had played DE in the 3-4 since College) that the Browns took paying Williams big money for a position switch. I'm not sure how wise either move is.

[Bretsky]

The Williams trade wouldn't chaff nearly as bad if TTT used the pick to select somebody who showed something right off the bat. But he went for a backup QB pretty high when many were high with AROD love...which it looks like was well deserved.

ThAT Brohm looked poor (not that abnormal for a first year QB) and the seventh rounder outperformed him......bites even a bit more in the short term.

I would not have paid Williams the money he received; but he was a valuable part to this defense in that rotation.

So the combo of Harrell sucking wind so far and Brohm being the pick rather than somebody who might help sooner still makes me a bit sick about all of these decisions.