Packers watching orakpo closely

[rbaloha1]

Corey Williams=Cleditus Hunt

[Partial]

Of course his effectiveness went down in playing more. Everyone's does. Look at KGB and how valuable he was in that pass rushing role. When he was a part time player, he was far more effective and more worth his salary.

2nd round pick carrying more value is pure opinion at this point. Did we get more value last year? No way, especially given our poor depth on the line.

Everyone is talking about 'mediocre' he is, yet these same people talk about 3-4 ends and how they are tireless workers doing the dirty work, etc.

Value is relative, as I said. I think Corey Williams would not be worth that money as an every down player. I think he'd be worth every penny if he was used only in passing situations.

Like KGB, when he was started and expected to do everything, he didn't do anything well and his value was diminished. When he was a situational rusher, he was great and his value was through the roof. Williams is a very similiar situation. We cannot all of a sudden neglect his top-tier sack production and pressure for a DT.

That said, had they opted to sign Williams early, they probably could have gotten him cheaper ala Jenkins. In retrospect, give me Williams over walking injured Jenkins any day of the week.

[Guiness]

Corey Williams=Cleditus Hunt

Dunno how you can that. CW kept playing, kept working hard, as far as anyone can tell. He just wanted to go for the max money, and was willing to risk injury while waiting for FA instead of signing early. He got his money (elsewere) and kept playing. As far as I've heard, still a pretty hard worker, etc. The Browns gave him a ridiculous contract for a 3-4 DE (He was paid like a top flight 4-3 DT) but that's not our problem.

CH took his money, sat in a stool in front of his fridge, and got up in time to waddle to TC.

[KYPack]

Corey Williams=Cleditus Hunt

Dunno how you can that. CW kept playing, kept working hard, as far as anyone can tell. He just wanted to go for the max money, and was willing to risk injury while waiting for FA instead of signing early. He got his money (elsewere) and kept playing. As far as I've heard, still a pretty hard worker, etc. The Browns gave him a ridiculous contract for a 3-4 DE (He was paid like a top flight 4-3 DT) but that's not our problem.

CH took his money, sat in a stool in front of his fridge, and got up in time to waddle to TC.

Another thing about the Williams move. Cleve took a serviceable 4-3 DT and made him a LDE in a 3-4. Talk about a fish out of water. Admittedly an end in a 3-4 doesn't do or get a lot. Williams was completely lost at the job. now we are trying to do the same move with Jolly. Makes me wonder if it will work

[Gunakor]

Of course his effectiveness went down in playing more. Everyone's does. Look at KGB and how valuable he was in that pass rushing role. When he was a part time player, he was far more effective and more worth his salary.

2nd round pick carrying more value is pure opinion at this point. Did we get more value last year? No way, especially given our poor depth on the line.

Everyone is talking about 'mediocre' he is, yet these same people talk about 3-4 ends and how they are tireless workers doing the dirty work, etc.

Value is relative, as I said. I think Corey Williams would not be worth that money as an every down player. I think he'd be worth every penny if he was used only in passing situations.

Like KGB, when he was started and expected to do everything, he didn't do anything well and his value was diminished. When he was a situational rusher, he was great and his value was through the roof. Williams is a very similiar situation. We cannot all of a sudden neglect his top-tier sack production and pressure for a DT.

That said, had they opted to sign Williams early, they probably could have gotten him cheaper ala Jenkins. In retrospect, give me Williams over walking injured Jenkins any day of the week.

Partial, Williams' production just didn't go down when named a starter. He disappeared when named a starter. Did next to nothing worthwhile as a starter. As in he wasn't a starter. Isn't a starter. Doesn't deserve a starters salary. Got one from someone else, glad he didn't get one from us.

Give me Jenkins at Jenkins salary over Williams at Williams' salary any day of the week. The Browns regret paying Williams as much as they did, and we would have if we had signed him also. Williams would not have signed for less money with us. You are assuming that without doing any research into the matter whatsoever, just like all of your assumptions. Had we offered him a backups salary he'd have just went to FA where he could get starters money. We tagged him so we could trade him and get something in return.

At no point were we willing to pay him the money he was asking for, because at no point in his career was he worth that salary. Kudos TT for making that trade happen, as we got a highly rated prospect at a much more valuable position in return for dumping that lazy ass.

[rbaloha1]

Corey Williams=Cleditus Hunt

Dunno how you can that. CW kept playing, kept working hard, as far as anyone can tell. He just wanted to go for the max money, and was willing to risk injury while waiting for FA instead of signing early. He got his money (elsewere) and kept playing. As far as I've heard, still a pretty hard worker, etc. The Browns gave him a ridiculous contract for a 3-4 DE (He was paid like a top flight 4-3 DT) but that's not our problem.

CH took his money, sat in a stool in front of his fridge, and got up in time to waddle to TC.

Another thing about the Williams move. Cleve took a serviceable 4-3 DT and made him a LDE in a 3-4. Talk about a fish out of water. Admittedly an end in a 3-4 doesn't do or get a lot. Williams was completely lost at the job. now we are trying to do the same move with Jolly. Makes me wonder if it will work

Check out comments from the Browns questioning CW's heart and commitment.

[Partial]

CAPS...

Partial, Williams' production just didn't go down when named a starter. He disappeared when named a starter. Did next to nothing worthwhile as a starter. As in he wasn't a starter. Isn't a starter. Doesn't deserve a starters salary. Got one from someone else, glad he didn't get one from us.

WHAT DEFINES A STARTER? HE PLAYED A FAIR AMOUNT OF SNAPS, AS WE SPEND MORE TIME IN NICKEL THAN THE BASE DEFENSE ANYWAY. HE'S NOT A GREAT RUN DEFENDER, BUT HE IS AN EXCELLENT PASS RUSHER FROM INSIDE AS HE HAS SHOWN WITH HIS NUMBERS OVER THE COURSE OF TWO YEARS BEING ELITE.

KGB DID NEXT TO NOTHING AS A STARTER. AS A MATTER OF FACT, THERE ARE PLENTY OF PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE WHO ARE MUCH BETTER PASS RUSHERS THAN RUN DEFENDERS, AND ARE PAID ACCORDINGLY. I THINK YOUR DEFINITION IS REALLY RIGID AND QUITE FRANKLY OUTDATED WITH THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED TODAY.

THE FACT IS COREY WILLIAMS WAS A VERY EFFECTIVE PLAYER WHEN IN A SOLID ROTATION. AS WE SAW LAST YEAR, WHEN THERE ISN'T ANY DEPTH, IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ANY PLAYER TO BE EFFECTIVE.

CULLEN JENKINS IS LOVED ON THIS BOARD, YET HE HAS DONE NEXT TO NOTHING AS A STARTER. HE HAD 4 GREAT WEEKS, A YEAR BELOW THE COACHES EXPECTATIONS, AND AN INJURED YEAR. I DON'T SEE HOW ONE CAN LOVE CULLEN AND THINK HE IS A SOLID/GOOD/GREAT PLAYER WHEN SAID PERSON THINKS COREY WILLIAMS WAS A POOR PLAYER AND STARTER.


Give me Jenkins at Jenkins salary over Williams at Williams' salary any day of the week. The Browns regret paying Williams as much as they did, and we would have if we had signed him also.

SOURCE? AGAIN, MORE SPECULATION.

Williams would not have signed for less money with us. You are assuming that without doing any research into the matter whatsoever, just like all of your assumptions. Had we offered him a backups salary he'd have just went to FA where he could get starters money. We tagged him so we could trade him and get something in return.

I AGREE WE DON'T KNOW IF HE'D SIGN FOR LESS THE YEAR BEFORE. I DON'T THINK THEY MADE MUCH ATTEMPT TO. HOW MUCH DOES HE EVEN GET PAID IN GUARANTEES?

YOU'D TAKE A PLAYER WHO CAN'T STAY ON THE FIELD AND PRODUCE OVER A PLAYER WHO HAS BEEN HEALTHY AND PRODUCTIVE HIS ENTIRE CAREER? COREY WILLIAMS WAS A DAMN GOOD PASS RUSHER FOR US... ARE YOU KIDDING ME DUDE?

At no point were we willing to pay him the money he was asking for, because at no point in his career was he worth that salary. Kudos TT for making that trade happen, as we got a highly rated prospect at a much more valuable position in return for dumping that lazy ass.

LAZY? WHERE? I'VE SEEN ZERO INDICATION THAT HE IS LAZY. FAT? HE'S A DEFENSIVE TACKLE. IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE SLIM? BY DEFENSIVE TACKLE STANDARDS, HE IS HARDLY FAT.

YOU'RE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

[Waldo]

Corey Williams=Cleditus Hunt

Dunno how you can that. CW kept playing, kept working hard, as far as anyone can tell. He just wanted to go for the max money, and was willing to risk injury while waiting for FA instead of signing early. He got his money (elsewere) and kept playing. As far as I've heard, still a pretty hard worker, etc. The Browns gave him a ridiculous contract for a 3-4 DE (He was paid like a top flight 4-3 DT) but that's not our problem.

CH took his money, sat in a stool in front of his fridge, and got up in time to waddle to TC.

Another thing about the Williams move. Cleve took a serviceable 4-3 DT and made him a LDE in a 3-4. Talk about a fish out of water. Admittedly an end in a 3-4 doesn't do or get a lot. Williams was completely lost at the job. now we are trying to do the same move with Jolly. Makes me wonder if it will work

They made him a 2 gap DE. It is fairly obvious that Williams in not a 2 gap lineman, he needs to shoot into a single gap the be effective, when asked to control the gaps on both sides of the guy in front of him, he is pretty worthless, which is why Jolly beat him out in the first place.

Our DE's are going to be 1 gap DE's, and aggressively fire into gaps at the snap. Williams would fit this scheme much better than Cleveland's.

[texaspackerbacker]

Corey Williams was like a lot of the stuff you see in those late night infomercials--perfectly fine ........ just way too expensive.

[Zool]

Corey Williams was like a lot of the stuff you see in those late night infomercials--perfectly fine ........ just way too expensive.

If we order a Williams in the next 10 minutes, we get a second one absolutely free. (just pay $7.2mil in shipping and handling)

[wist43]

In the end, and even the homers can't argue against this, a productive member of the DL rototation is gone

Nope. Disagree. It was known VERY early by the public that Williams was hell bent on becoming a FA. That would mean TT knew even earlier.

William's agent came out and stated TT had approached him, IIRC.

Fair enough... don't remember TT approaching his agent though, but that's probably my faulty memory, as the distractions of life have been getting the better of me for the past couple of years

Still in Germany Tar??? Get that job you were after??? Last I remember you were lamenting a bad interview... happens to all of us, lol

[wist43]

I think the bone of contention in letting Williams go was in terms of not pursueing a preemptive signing... TT made the decision b/4 that draft, when CW still had a year on his contract, that he was going to boot CW out the door.

In the end, and even the homers can't argue against this, a productive member of the DL rototation is gone; and has been replaced by a non-productive blob... and a 1st round pick was used in the process.

You guys keep trying to defend it all... but that's the end result.

You keep forgetting about cost here wist. Would you have paid Williams what it would have cost to keep him here, even knowing that his production would not warrant that cost? That's the crux of the deal here. Williams is being overpaid. He was going to be overpaid by us, or be overpaid by someone else. It turns out he's being overpaid by someone else. Isn't that a good thing?

No I wouldn't have paid him what he ended up getting... but, as I've said about most of these young, productive guys... sign 'em early. If Tar's memory is correct though, and I'm sure it's better than mine, then Williams would have walked under my watch as well...

At this point, the only guy I'm reasonably sure he'll make sure he gets signed early is Jennings... GJ is the only jewel in TT's crown, so he'll likely move heaven and earth to get him signed.

[RashanGary]

gunakor,

You summed up Corey Williams very well. Also, there was talk about resigning Williams, but he refused. He had 8 sacks the year before and wanted to get paid like an 8 sack DT (36 mil). Cleveland did it, and now regrets it. We did not.

Did it hurt to lose him? Yes. Would it have hurt more to resign him? Yes.

Good decision as the pluses outweighed the minuses (like you explained perfectly)

[Partial]

You guys are whack. How do you know they regret it? Have they cut him lose? Have they expressed this at all. Clearly they thought he was worth it 11 months ago, or they wouldn't have traded.

He's playing a different position. His stats are going to be different as he plays a different role.

[RashanGary]

One thing you almost never see the people who are consistently negative do is weight the positives and negatives and come up with their view of a "whole scope" of a decision.

They're very good at harping on the minuses of a decision, but they are unable to see the whole effect of said decision. It's very hard for me to relate to, but it's something many people are not capable of thinking outside of, so the debates roll on.