Breaking News on Brett Favre!

[Gunakor]

This will only be his second system as the Vikings run the same system as the Packers do, the WCO.

Sherman's version of the WCO was hardly the WCO that Favre was most successful with. Minnesota will be no different. Pure WCO offenses use the short, high percentage passing game to set up the run. Minnesota does the opposite. While they do incorporate some aspects of the WCO into their offensive scheme, it is far from a more pure form of WCO that Favre has flourished in under Holmgren and McCarthy.

The Viking's running game allows more play action opportunities -- still a BF strength.

Agreed. But history tells the tale. Brett has historically been more successful in a pure WCO system than a Sherman/Childress hybrid system. He had those same play action opportunities under Sherman when Ahman Green was at the peak of his career, with greater WR's in Driver and Walker (not to mention a TE named Bubba Franks coming off of 3 consecutive Pro Bowls), and that never translated into anything greater than a divisional round loss for him. Both coaches who implemented a more pure WCO system for our offense have seen Favre reach greater heights. It is what it is.

[rbaloha1]

This will only be his second system as the Vikings run the same system as the Packers do, the WCO.

Sherman's version of the WCO was hardly the WCO that Favre was most successful with. Minnesota will be no different. Pure WCO offenses use the short, high percentage passing game to set up the run. Minnesota does the opposite. While they do incorporate some aspects of the WCO into their offensive scheme, it is far from a more pure form of WCO that Favre has flourished in under Holmgren and McCarthy.

The Viking's running game allows more play action opportunities -- still a BF strength.

Agreed. But history tells the tale. Brett has historically been more successful in a pure WCO system than a Sherman/Childress hybrid system. He had those same play action opportunities under Sherman when Ahman Green was at the peak of his career, with greater WR's in Driver and Walker (not to mention a TE named Bubba Franks coming off of 3 consecutive Pro Bowls), and that never translated into anything greater than a divisional round loss for him. Both coaches who implemented a more pure WCO system for our offense have seen Favre reach greater heights. It is what it is.

The greatest success was when Favre was younger with Pro Bowl players like: Chewy, Jackson, Rison, Freeman, Levens and very good players like Brooks, Bebbe, etc.

A potent running game with more basic stuff allows Favre to flourish despite age and declining skills. Also a good defense (like Favre possessed during his MVP years) makes the team less reliant on Favre.

[LP]

I don't think Favre's success has as much to do with a "pure" WCO as it is discipline. Holmgren and McCarthy held his feet to the fire and made him responsible for his mistake's. Sherman and Bevell never did, and I don't think Childress/Bevell will be any different.

[Zool]

I don't think Favre's success has as much to do with a "pure" WCO as it is discipline. Holmgren and McCarthy held his feet to the fire and made him responsible for his mistake's. Sherman and Bevell never did, and I don't think Childress/Bevell will be any different.

And there it is. The reason so many Viking fans around here are not in the least bit happy about the whole thing. That and they have an undying hatred of Favre.

[Fritz]

Several years ago, I was out on a lake in Minnesota, and I saw, in the distance, a man in a rent-a-boat with an outboard motor. His wife or girlfriend was sitting in the middle, paying him no mind, trying to put the oars in while he stared perplexedly at the outboard, which had clearly died. Then I saw him reach for the pull cord, just as the woman was leaning toward the back to put an oar in its lock.

There was nothing I could do. I knew damn well exactly what was going to happen, but I was too far away to be yelling and there were too many boats on the water for anyone to know whom I was yelling at.. Besides, I was mesmerized.

I saw the guy grip the cord, I saw the woman focusing on the oar and the lock in the slightly choppy water, and I saw exactly, exactly what was going to happen. It was a disaster, and I couldn't not watch.

And yes, of course it did. He yanked that outboard cord just as hard as he could, and bam! Punched that woman right in the mouth.

The weirdest part was just before it happened, knowing, just knowing, exactly what was going to happen. It was the suspension of time in the moment just before the disaster.

Yup, I remember that.

[swede]

Several years ago, I was out on a lake in Minnesota, and I saw, in the distance, a man in a rent-a-boat with an outboard motor. His wife or girlfriend was sitting in the middle, paying him no mind, trying to put the oars in while he stared perplexedly at the outboard, which had clearly died. Then I saw him reach for the pull cord, just as the woman was leaning toward the back to put an oar in its lock.

There was nothing I could do. I knew damn well exactly what was going to happen, but I was too far away to be yelling and there were too many boats on the water for anyone to know whom I was yelling at.. Besides, I was mesmerized.

I saw the guy grip the cord, I saw the woman focusing on the oar and the lock in the slightly choppy water, and I saw exactly, exactly what was going to happen. It was a disaster, and I couldn't not watch.

And yes, of course it did. He yanked that outboard cord just as hard as he could, and bam! Punched that woman right in the mouth.

The weirdest part was just before it happened, knowing, just knowing, exactly what was going to happen. It was the suspension of time in the moment just before the disaster.

Yup, I remember that.

And...the Vikings are the woman's mouth and Brett Favre is the fist?

Or...are the Vikings the dead engine?

[Gunakor]

Several years ago, I was out on a lake in Minnesota, and I saw, in the distance, a man in a rent-a-boat with an outboard motor. His wife or girlfriend was sitting in the middle, paying him no mind, trying to put the oars in while he stared perplexedly at the outboard, which had clearly died. Then I saw him reach for the pull cord, just as the woman was leaning toward the back to put an oar in its lock.

There was nothing I could do. I knew damn well exactly what was going to happen, but I was too far away to be yelling and there were too many boats on the water for anyone to know whom I was yelling at.. Besides, I was mesmerized.

I saw the guy grip the cord, I saw the woman focusing on the oar and the lock in the slightly choppy water, and I saw exactly, exactly what was going to happen. It was a disaster, and I couldn't not watch.

And yes, of course it did. He yanked that outboard cord just as hard as he could, and bam! Punched that woman right in the mouth.

The weirdest part was just before it happened, knowing, just knowing, exactly what was going to happen. It was the suspension of time in the moment just before the disaster.

Yup, I remember that.

And...the Vikings are the woman's mouth and Brett Favre is the fist?

Or...are the Vikings the dead engine?

Brett Favre is the dead engine. The Vikings are pulling the cord, and Rosenfels is the woman that gets punched in the mouth.

[CaptainD]

There are such things as dignity, class, and grace.
There are also things like pettiness, egotism, and selfishness.
For me, the inability to win when the chips were on the line has never outweighed the often thrilling plays -but I can at least understand the adulation heaped on #4 by some, especially those too young to remember Starr and the Glory Years.
But the diva mindset revealed over the last few years has taken things over the top. Too much!
Now, instead of thinking of him as a player who provided some fine Packer football memories, the mention of his name evokes the term 'self-centered asshat'.
Sorry, Cult.

The Shadow - I am only 20, you are an older fan, correct? I have noticed many of the older fans (not just here) are on Favre's side. If I am correct, that you are of the older generation, why are you different to the rest?

I am 38 and the other forum I post on the majority are older folks . About 98% NOT backing Favre over there. I think it's really a matter of the group of fans you hang with rather then age but a great question that made me ponder a bit.

[PlantPage55]

I have a hypothesis about the older generation. And I fully admit that it probably IS a stereotype, but it's my impression from living in Wisconsin and talking football with a LOT of old people.

a. Older people in Wisconsin LOVE to say "you weren't around when the Packers didn't have a quarterback for 20 years!!!"

b. Older fans in Wisconsin seem to have a VERY negative view of management. The old guys that I've talked to for years have never mentioned anything but distaste for every one of our GMs, going back to even Ron Wolf! ("all he ever did was find Brett Favre and sign Reggie White!" - yes, I've actually heard this)

They seem to side with the players on everything. Perhaps their own bias in their daily lives have pitted them against management over the years, because of what they themselves experienced in the work force?

They seem to feel that winning football has nothing to do with "guys that have never stepped on the field" - and I've had to remind a handful of them that Ted Thompson DID play football at one time. "That *** played football?!" responded one old man.

[Gunakor]

b. Older fans in Wisconsin seem to have a VERY negative view of management. The old guys that I've talked to for years have never mentioned anything but distaste for every one of our GMs, going back to even Ron Wolf! ("all he ever did was find Brett Favre and sign Reggie White!" - yes, I've actually heard this)

What GM in the history of sports hasn't traded for a Brett Favre and signed a Reggie White? Christ, moves like these should be the bare minimum expectations of any competent GM!

They seem to feel that winning football has nothing to do with "guys that have never stepped on the field" - and I've had to remind a handful of them that Ted Thompson DID play football at one time. "That *** played football?!" responded one old man.

For quite awhile, too!

Old people are funny sometimes

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Shadow - I am only 20, you are an older fan, correct? I have noticed many of the older fans (not just here) are on Favre's side. If I am correct, that you are of the older generation, why are you different to the rest?

I am 38 and the other forum I post on the majority are older folks . About 98% NOT backing Favre over there. I think it's really a matter of the group of fans you hang with rather then age but a great question that made me ponder a bit.

I'd agree. Most of the older fans aren't in Favre's corner like people my age (38). Unless you consider 38 to be the older folks?

[MJZiggy]

The Shadow - I am only 20, you are an older fan, correct? I have noticed many of the older fans (not just here) are on Favre's side. If I am correct, that you are of the older generation, why are you different to the rest?

I am 38 and the other forum I post on the majority are older folks . About 98% NOT backing Favre over there. I think it's really a matter of the group of fans you hang with rather then age but a great question that made me ponder a bit.

I'd agree. Most of the older fans aren't in Favre's corner like people my age (38). Unless you consider 38 to be the older folks?

Old fart...

[cheesner]

I have a hypothesis about the older generation. And I fully admit that it probably IS a stereotype, but it's my impression from living in Wisconsin and talking football with a LOT of old people.

a. Older people in Wisconsin LOVE to say "you weren't around when the Packers didn't have a quarterback for 20 years!!!"

b. Older fans in Wisconsin seem to have a VERY negative view of management. The old guys that I've talked to for years have never mentioned anything but distaste for every one of our GMs, going back to even Ron Wolf! ("all he ever did was find Brett Favre and sign Reggie White!" - yes, I've actually heard this)

They seem to side with the players on everything. Perhaps their own bias in their daily lives have pitted them against management over the years, because of what they themselves experienced in the work force?

They seem to feel that winning football has nothing to do with "guys that have never stepped on the field" - and I've had to remind a handful of them that Ted Thompson DID play football at one time. "That *** played football?!" responded one old man.

I have a hypothesis about you. You work in an old folks home with a lot of senile dumb-asses.

My experience is just the opposite, the youngsters in my family back Favre and the older folks back management. All my neices and nephews are too young to remember any other QB, and growing up Favre = Packers. Us older folks were fans before Brett was even born. We feel the Packers are far bigger than any single player, or GM for that matter.

Thing is, it was time for BF to go. Had the Packers not moved on, I would have turned on TT for not making the Packers as competitive as possible. Good thing he is not the sentimental sort.

[PlantPage55]

I have a hypothesis about you. You work in an old folks home with a lot of senile dumb-asses.

My experience is just the opposite, the youngsters in my family back Favre and the older folks back management. All my neices and nephews are too young to remember any other QB, and growing up Favre = Packers. Us older folks were fans before Brett was even born. We feel the Packers are far bigger than any single player, or GM for that matter.

Thing is, it was time for BF to go. Had the Packers not moved on, I would have turned on TT for not making the Packers as competitive as possible. Good thing he is not the sentimental sort.

That's an interesting perspective too - and one that I'm sure proves that it ISN'T an age thing.

[th87]

Strangely enough, those who are analytical about their football, and like to break down their points with statistics and quotes, for example, appear to favor TT's approach to Favre's situation.

Those who value the emotional aspect of football, with respect to loyalty, nostalgia, veneration, and entertainment value appear to side with Favre far more.

In other words, evidence versus intuition, or left brain versus right brain. Neither are superior.

These people can be young or old, so I don't think there's any way to divide it in that way.