Favre: the man, the legend. Are we having fun yet?

[Bossman641]

A top level executive always wants to be the reason for the success.

Marginal top level executives perhaps. The best I've been around just want the business model to thrive, and aren't so paranoid about who gets credit for what.

Bingo

TT doesn't seem like the type to stand in the spotlight. Maybe he went home at night and basked in the team's success, but I don't recall him taking any credit during the run to the NFC Champ. game. Also, let's not forget that at the GM meeting where he was to receive his Executive of the Year award he left early so he could go scout some kid from Middle of Nowhere A&M.

[pbmax]

Yes, the oddest rumor-fueled speculation to percolate through the intertubes is that Thompson is some egomanical monster that wants all the credit and could not share any of it with his star QB or veterans. Have the supporters of this explanation ever seen this guy talk in public? This guy craves public adulation and credit?

There is scant evidence of this and seems made up entirely of after the fact speculation about preferring younger players to veterans, even when it came to Favre. I am not a knee jerk organization supporter, so I don't think we know or have explanations for everything that went down, but this vein of thinking is just ludicrous and untestable. Perfect fodder for conspiracy theorists.

The only thing Thompson has done that does not seem easily explained by his draft and youth philosophy is the switch from Brandt to Ball.

[RIPackerFan]

Sorry - I disagree with you. Maybe I mis-wrote, but I don't think TT wants to be the only reason for success. However, he believes and wants others to believe that under his tuteledge, the Pack has been successful. This may not be driven by an outward need to be on every talk show or every news network, but it is a driver with every executive.

Why? Because it is a driver of their authority (more respect, more leeway to do what they want). It is a driver for what they get paid. It is the driver of whether he is employed or not.

To say that TT doesn't care if he is seen as successful is wrong. While I don't think that he does it for "showy" accolades, every executive does it to increase power, prestige and pay.

[Bossman641]

To say that TT doesn't care if he is seen as successful is wrong. While I don't think that he does it for "showy" accolades, every executive does it to increase power, prestige and pay.

This is an entirely different argument. Of course he wants to be successful. I don't think he would threaten that success by getting rid of players he thinks could help him be successful just so he could say he did it with his guys though.

[RIPackerFan]

Just so we are clear - I think TT thinks Arod is a more than acceptible replacement for Favre.

I also think that as long as Favre was here - there was little ability for him to bench or replace Favre. (Heck - Favre is no longer on the team and many people think he is still better than Arod - imagine if he was still on the team). TT needed a catalyst to drive his agenda - which was to get Arod into the starting position.

The retirement gave him that authority and leverage.

[Scott Campbell]

TT needed a catalyst to drive his agenda - which was to get Arod into the starting position.

I disagree with all this "agenda" garbage too. The goal is to win - not to put his favorites into the lineup.

I think you've been exposed to too many crappy low level executives that are paranoid about getting fired.

[pbmax]

Just so we are clear - I think TT thinks Arod is a more than acceptible replacement for Favre.

I also think that as long as Favre was here - there was little ability for him to bench or replace Favre. (Heck - Favre is no longer on the team and many people think he is still better than Arod - imagine if he was still on the team). TT needed a catalyst to drive his agenda - which was to get Arod into the starting position.

The retirement gave him that authority and leverage.

But what do you think his agenda is? Is it simply to put his players into position to maximize his leverage? Or do you think he, McCarthy and the football operation people felt like Favre was on a significant downslope?

I can't speak for the man, but he would be nuts to do it for any reason other than what McGinn proposed last August: that Favre could no longer be counted on for success in a deep playoff run or in the cold.

[Scott Campbell]

A top level executive always wants to be the reason for the success.

[Scott Campbell]

......

[RIPackerFan]

His agenda was the Packers success - which will ultimately lead to his success.

I stated that TT thought that Arod was a more than acceptible (i.e. better) QB than Favre.

He could not change out Favre while Favre was there.

Therefore, he needed leverage which the retirement bought him. Remember, this all goes back to the "fact" that when Favre wanted to come back in March - the Packers were going to open up their arms for him. I stated I did not believe that was the case - I personally believe they were going to go down there to convince him to stay retired.

[cpk1994]

His agenda was the Packers success - which will ultimately lead to his success.

I stated that TT thought that Arod was a more than acceptible (i.e. better) QB than Favre.

He could not change out Favre while Favre was there.

Therefore, he needed leverage which the retirement bought him. Remember, this all goes back to the "fact" that when Favre wanted to come back in March - the Packers were going to open up their arms for him. I stated I did not believe that was the case - I personally believe they were going to go down there to convince him to stay retired.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I totally disagree. This is footbal, a much different world than regular Corporate America. I When you win a SB, no one remebers who spacifically are your guys. Winning a SB with ARod doesn't give him any more success than if he had won one with Favre. Winning a SB means a ring on your finger and a job well done for the year.

I aslo disagree heartily with your opinion that they were going down to convinve him to stay retired simply for the fact that if they had they would have looke worse than they appeared when they went down there at the end of July. That meeting surely would have been leaked by the Favre camp if the Packers took that route. By the time they were accused of doing so, Brett was already throwing his childish temper tantrums, ESPN, MJS and others were trashing the Packers left and right, and they already took a big PR hit. Going sown to Mississippi to remind of the marketing offer they made doesn't make them look any worse. But if they had tried to convince him to stay retired only one month after his "retirement" announcement?
Yeah. It would be moronic to say the least if they tried that.

GM's are always preparing for the long term future. That is why ARod was drafted when the opportunity arose. THey got tired of Favre's waffling so when he finally said enough, they took him at his word. It didn't matter who they had to replace him, they got tired of Favre's childish and selfish diva act.

[Chevelle2]

Can someone with HBO give a play-by-play account of what is happening, once this gets underway?

[woodbuck27]

Thompson is a terrible GM, if you want to defend a man who has presided over the worst span of Packer football in 20 years while running the man who took Green Bay back to national prominence out of town then by all means do so, you will look quite foolish doing so, to me anyway. What about Thompson's Kool-Aid is so tasty that fans like you can't resist it? Is it his remarkable 31-33 record since taking over as GM? Was it his bumbling of the situation with Favre that made you a believer? Was it last years 7 game backslide? I need to know what it is that makes people blindly defend the man, it's quite interesting to me. Ted Thompson has one more year left in Green Bay, then hopefully after this years 7-9 campaign the Board of Directors will come to their senses and fire this horrible GM who has tainted the good name of this organization.

Why don't you make up more statistics to support your point?!?

GB Packers 88-91 under Infante were 24-40. But don't let facts stop your rant.

Look at it this way, TD, As a GM, you don't look at what happened 10 years ago (Favre singlehandedly bringing the franchise back without any help from his line, receivers, kickass special teams--who was the SB MVP again?--or amazing defense), you look to what is going to make your team stronger for the NEXT 10 years. And I would ask, if the GM is responsible for the 10 game backslide, he's also responsible for the record you backslid FROM. Ted Thompson got his team to one interception from the SuperBowl. He was named Exec of the Year and is most certainly not on the hot seat now. I suggest you get used to his presence because even if you whine yourself blue in the face (which may have already happened for all I know), he will still be there.

Ron Wolf Mike Holmgren, Brett Favre, and Reggie White. Ron Wolf hired Mike Holmgren, trade a number one draft pick for Favre.

Favre plays game against a Philly with Reggie White in 1992. Favre seperates his left shoulder after taking a crushing hit from Reggie White. White thinks Favre is done. Next series Favre comes running back on the field to lead the Packers back to win the game in the second half. Reggie is astounded by the heart and leadership of a young Favre.

White is free agent in 2003, he can chose to go any where he wants for any amount of money. Wolf offers White 17 million dollars. He chooses Green Bay, because of God, and the money, but also he realized he had a QB on his team that could take this team further than he had ever been in the playoffs.

White starts slowly recruiting defensive players to come to Green Bay, Sean Jones, Santana Dotson, and Keith Jackson on offense.

The best player on offense that Favre ever played with was Sterling Sharpe. He was lost in 1995 before the Packers ever made the Super Bowl, was never on a team that went to an NFC Championship game. Favre had a pretty ordinary offensive line in the 1990s the only Pro Bowl linemen was Frank Winters, and I think he was an alternate. Ziggy, without looking it up(which you will) name the starting left tackle in the 1996 Super Bowl for the Packers.

How many pro bowls did any running back, tight end, wide receiver make after playing with Favre?

Ron Wolf was a fantastic GM, but he had his misses in the draft especially in early rounds, but he made up for it in later rounds and he did a fantastic job of acquiring veterans to blend with younger players. Wolf wasn't afraid once his roster was solidified to go after those one or two players that put the team over the top. Keith Jackson, Dotson, Eugene Robinson, Sean Jones, and Ahman Green.

Mike Homgren, biggest accomplishement was taking Favre and turning him into a three time MVP. Next was being one of the best head coaches of his time, excellent with his hiring of coaches, especially on defense. West Coast genius. Cost the Packers in 1997 another Super Bowl, with is underhanding pleading for a Job as a GM and Head coach for a team on the West Coast. Lost focus on winning the second Super Bowl. Lost focus on his 1998 team.

I will never say that Favre did it all himself. I don't think the Packers win a Super Bowl play for another one, and make four NFC Championship games without Brett Favre.

OK way to set it down Nutz. Noone's messin' with you on this post.

[woodbuck27]

Ron Wolf Mike Holmgren, Brett Favre, and Reggie White. Ron Wolf hired Mike Holmgren, trade a number one draft pick for Favre.

Favre plays game against a Philly with Reggie White in 1992. Favre seperates his left shoulder after taking a crushing hit from Reggie White. White thinks Favre is done. Next series Favre comes running back on the field to lead the Packers back to win the game in the second half. Reggie is astounded by the heart and leadership of a young Favre.

White is free agent in 2003, he can chose to go any where he wants for any amount of money. Wolf offers White 17 million dollars. He chooses Green Bay, because of God, and the money, but also he realized he had a QB on his team that could take this team further than he had ever been in the playoffs.

White starts slowly recruiting defensive players to come to Green Bay, Sean Jones, Santana Dotson, and Keith Jackson on offense.

The best player on offense that Favre ever played with was Sterling Sharpe. He was lost in 1995 before the Packers ever made the Super Bowl, was never on a team that went to an NFC Championship game. Favre had a pretty ordinary offensive line in the 1990s the only Pro Bowl linemen was Frank Winters, and I think he was an alternate. Ziggy, without looking it up(which you will) name the starting left tackle in the 1996 Super Bowl for the Packers.

How many pro bowls did any running back, tight end, wide receiver make after playing with Favre?

Ron Wolf was a fantastic GM, but he had his misses in the draft especially in early rounds, but he made up for it in later rounds and he did a fantastic job of acquiring veterans to blend with younger players. Wolf wasn't afraid once his roster was solidified to go after those one or two players that put the team over the top. Keith Jackson, Dotson, Eugene Robinson, Sean Jones, and Ahman Green.

Mike Homgren, biggest accomplishement was taking Favre and turning him into a three time MVP. Next was being one of the best head coaches of his time, excellent with his hiring of coaches, especially on defense. West Coast genius. Cost the Packers in 1997 another Super Bowl, with is underhanding pleading for a Job as a GM and Head coach for a team on the West Coast. Lost focus on winning the second Super Bowl. Lost focus on his 1998 team.

I will never say that Favre did it all himself. I don't think the Packers win a Super Bowl play for another one, and make four NFC Championship games without Brett Favre.

You don't look at what happened 10 (geez, almost 15 years ago), you look at what will make your team better for the NEXT ten years. I bet they were saying the same thing when Starr and Lombardi left. We are already much better off than we were at that point, no? How do you know Raji isn't the next White? McCarthy/Capers the Holmgren combination (he didn't do it alone either and nearly got fired in Seattle, remember?)

Oh and the name of the left tackle doesn't matter. If he didn't do his job, Favre would have spent the game on his back and we'd have lost. Without question. Hell, without Desmond Howard, we'd likely have lost. Favre was not MVP of that game for a reason (that many so EASILY forget)[/quote]

************************************************** **********

Yes Desmond Howard played a key role in that Super Bowl win and was awarded the MVP but Brett Favre played very well for us in that win.

If you had to say which player Howard or Favre played a stronger role in Packer history who would you vote for MJ? That Super Bowl win was just one game. How many times did we see Favre as a game MVP Vs Desmond Howard or any other individual Packer over the course of the years Favre wore our colors?

Therein lies a response that certainly supports Nutz's post MJ.

GO PACK GO!

[The Shadow]

Bruce Wilkerson?