Nelson or Jones

[Fritz]

Interesting. The above stats suggest that each player has specific strengths and weaknesses...looks like Jones can jump higher and has a better burst and shuttle, but that Nelson is faster and taller.

Don't know what that means in terms of football skills, but real information during a debate - how cool is that? Thanks, PB, for attempting to inject some fact into this discussion.

[pbmax]

Quoted from earlier, replies in bold:

Jones stayed close to home for school.
Jones is from San Jose, he went to San Jose St.
Nelson is from Manhattan Kansas and went to Kansas St. Which is located in Manhattan, Kansas.

I really don't have a problem with that and neither should you.
No one has a problem with it because no one else has mentioned it, except for now. But the beauty is that one receiver is named, and then the fact associated with it is used to question someone else's credentials. Despite the fact that both stayed close home. And that this point makes no sense.

That's the only reason he was the more decorated college receiver.
So receivers who play close to home always have tremendous success. Of course, it all makes perfect sense.

That, and the fact Jordy played in a pass first offense with a quarterback who went as a #1.
Did you ever see San Jose St. play?

As for your memories, of course you will have more of them for Ruvell and James. They have been here longer.

[Partial]

Are you implying that San Jose State is as good of a football school as KS?

I have seen SJS play. They're on ESPN a lot on Friday nights I feel like. I certainly don't think they've had a Josh Freeman type QB, though.

[MJZiggy]

THE QB ISN'T EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!

Good Lord, it's a team sport. Dilfer went to a SuperBowl remember...

[Partial]

James Jones is the more athletically gifted of the 2 and the one who is more apt to get you YAC.

It's absolutely fair to compare a Cali athlete to a Kansas athlete, too, while we're at it with the eye rolling

Beautiful. Absent facts, one person compares "athletics" and the other their state. More and more I am surprised that we all don't still believe the world is flat.

Wide Receivers...School.........Ht......Wt  	 40    	20    	10  	Vert.  	Broad  	Shuttle  	3Cone
Jordy Nelson  	Kansas State   6'3  	217  	4.51  	2.64  	1.57  	31  	 10'03"  	4.35  	  7.03
Jones, James  	San Jose St.   6'1" 	207  	4.54  	2.65  	1.54     34"   	9'11"     4.20       7.06

And as you can see, they're close. My point is saying the state was it takes a heck of a lot more to be recognized in Cali than it does in Kansas. Far more good athletes due to higher population.

[Partial]

THE QB ISN'T EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!

Good Lord, it's a team sport. Dilfer went to a SuperBowl remember...

Yes, with an all-world defense. QB is by far the most important position. Don't be ignorant. Put a good quarterback on the Badgers and they're a contender. Leave Sherer as the starter and they're a below .500 club.

I've posted this time and time again, but look at the super bowl winners of the past 20 years and you tell me theirs not a trend of star QBs.

[MJZiggy]

Is it a trend of star QBs, or are the QBs stars for having won Super Bowls? Put a stellar QB on a team with a crappy WR corps and see how much success he has and then have him hit free agency and move to a team with a better set of WRs or a better line or killer RBs and see how much more success he has. Suddenly he's "broken out" and is a "star QB." Don't kid yourself.

[Gunakor]

Is it a trend of star QBs, or are the QBs stars for having won Super Bowls? Put a stellar QB on a team with a crappy WR corps and see how much success he has and then have him hit free agency and move to a team with a better set of WRs or a better line or killer RBs and see how much more success he has. Suddenly he's "broken out" and is a "star QB." Don't kid yourself.

Good point. Did the star QB make the team a Super Bowl winner, or did a Super Bowl winning team make the QB a star?

[MJZiggy]

Is it a trend of star QBs, or are the QBs stars for having won Super Bowls? Put a stellar QB on a team with a crappy WR corps and see how much success he has and then have him hit free agency and move to a team with a better set of WRs or a better line or killer RBs and see how much more success he has. Suddenly he's "broken out" and is a "star QB." Don't kid yourself.

Good point. Did the star QB make the team a Super Bowl winner, or did a Super Bowl winning team make the QB a star?

Never mind. P has such a QB hard on that he'll never think critically enough to see the distinction. Not sure why I'm wasting my time with it.

And by the way, I'm thinking it will truly depend on what they want the #3 receiver to do. I see Jones as being a more finesse receiver and Nelson able to absorb and blow off a hit. The #3 decision will ultimately depend on how they decide to use #3 in this offense. I think the bigger question is whether this is the year Jennings fully supplants Driver in the #1 spot.

[Gunakor]

Is it a trend of star QBs, or are the QBs stars for having won Super Bowls? Put a stellar QB on a team with a crappy WR corps and see how much success he has and then have him hit free agency and move to a team with a better set of WRs or a better line or killer RBs and see how much more success he has. Suddenly he's "broken out" and is a "star QB." Don't kid yourself.

Good point. Did the star QB make the team a Super Bowl winner, or did a Super Bowl winning team make the QB a star?

Never mind. P has such a QB hard on that he'll never think critically enough to see the distinction. Not sure why I'm wasting my time with it.

And by the way, I'm thinking it will truly depend on what they want the #3 receiver to do. I see Jones as being a more finesse receiver and Nelson able to absorb and blow off a hit. The #3 decision will ultimately depend on how they decide to use #3 in this offense. I think the bigger question is whether this is the year Jennings fully supplants Driver in the #1 spot.

I honestly don't think it matters w/ Jennings and Driver being #1 or #2. They'll likely both be on the field together for most offensive snaps, and MM will probably have them each playing both sides of the line on occasion. They to me are more like 1a and 1b. And if the Packers were regularly going with 4 WR sets, you could make the argument that Jones and Nelson are 3a and 3b.

The question here is, in 3 WR sets, who's the 3rd guy? The reason I'd go with Nelson in this formation is because Nelson provides a much more reliable pair of hands, but the truth is I'd rather spread the field early and often (like 2007) so that I can get them both on the field.

[Partial]

Is it a trend of star QBs, or are the QBs stars for having won Super Bowls? Put a stellar QB on a team with a crappy WR corps and see how much success he has and then have him hit free agency and move to a team with a better set of WRs or a better line or killer RBs and see how much more success he has. Suddenly he's "broken out" and is a "star QB." Don't kid yourself.

Your thought process doesn't make a lot of sense here. I'm sure Steve Young, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Big Ben are all just average players... Not playmakers at all! Hell, plug in Heath Shuler and you'd still win the big game!

You can tout the ravens card, but anyone who has any understanding of statistics at all can look at the raw data and decipher that is clearly a statistically anomaly.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me realize why people around here think Rodgers is such a stud. They think every QB in the NFL is average and don't understand the importance.

Having a quality QB makes an even bigger difference in college than it does in the NFL imo.

With that said, Jones is a finesse receiver and Nelson can absorb the blows? I've seen Jones take far more big hits and stay upright than Nelson. I've also seen Jones produce in the NFL, which I haven't seen from Nelson. Like I said, I have no idea who's going to be better, but there isn't anything that stands out to me about Nelson the way there is about Jones.

[Scott Campbell]

Your knowledge of football is clearly limited.

[pbmax]

Your knowledge of football is clearly limited. I'm sure Steve Young, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Big Ben are all just average players... Not playmakers at all!

Archie Manning, Bert Jones, Jim Plunkett (the Patriots version) Steve Young (prior to the 49ers), Johnny Unitas (after being cut by the Steelers) and the collegiate Tom Brady would all like a word with you.

[pbmax]

Are you implying that San Jose State is as good of a football school as KS?

I have seen SJS play. They're on ESPN a lot on Friday nights I feel like. I certainly don't think they've had a Josh Freeman type QB, though.

I don't know how they would compare straight up, but they don't compete against the same quality of opposition as Kansas St. would either. WAC versus Big 12. And the pass first K State offense isn't quite as pass first as you seem to imply. And San Jose St. isn't exactly 3 yards and a cloud of dust either.

And so we are left with an argument that A is better than B because of Factor Y. Yet it is ignored that Factor Y cuts for and against both sides of the argument. So as per usual, we are left with nothing but heated words and a position unestablished by any fact.

And by the way, if Nelson can produce numbers at the combine while 2 inches taller and 10 lbs heavier, I think by definition he might be the better athlete and again by definition, a better pro prospect.

Which was my original point. Jones has done more so far and has two years in. I think he has the inside position to be #3. But Nelson is going to make a leap this year and next, and if he capitalizes on his gifts, he stands to be the better pro.

[pbmax]

Attempts:

Kansas St.
2008
425 pass
408 rush
2007
510 pass
351 rush
2006
415 pass
372 rush

San Jose St.
2008
383 pass
386 rush
2007
450 pass
385 rush
2006
294 pass
489 rush
2005
360 pass
389 rush