LeRoy Butler says

[Partial]

Ellerson played in the NFL almost 20 years ago, and if Butler was so knowledgeble about football he would have landed that coaching job he has been seeking for the better part of 5 years.

What 3 days into training camp? Nice to know that certain players are adjusting to the scheme, but Thompson was reported a day or so ago as getting lit up.

I'm just reporting it the way they said it. Note I haven't expressed an opinion either way because I have no idea what this team will do.

[pbmax]

JSOnline had Harris getting beaten in coverage in practices #3 and #4. Woodson looking All-Pro. Williams also had some struggles.

Giacomini has looked good, esp. footwork and agility. But not as good as Barbre. They had Lang getting abused a few plays when he was with the 2s after Clifton stepped out.

They said they could hear when Q Johnson was FB, but he was having a terrible time catching the football.

Colledge had a quad seize up on him and came out. Moll promptly got steamed rolled by Jenkins when he went in at LG.

Spitz/Wells/Sitton rotating through Center and Right Guard (Spitz only one playing both).

[Bossman641]

Everything I've read has said that Thompson hasn't been very strong at the point of attack while Matthews has held up pretty well.

[CaptainD]

Re: LeRoy Butler says

That Bishop and Thompson look very good, and should be starting over Matthews and Hawk (I'm pretty sure Thompson is starting, but LeRoy is convinced Matthews will ultimately get the nod due to his draft spot).

He said Bishop is by far the best linebacker out there. He is a torpedo that is bowling people over. He said the collision between Bishop and Johnson yesterday was one for the ages.

Evidently Johnson is just a throwback, vintage fullback. He is evidently standing out in practice big time said the WSSP crew, and while he can't catch the ball, he will knock you on your ass and the job is his to lose as lead blocker.

Interesting observations from two former Packers, Gary Ellerson and LeRoy Butler.

I was at camp all weekend. Leroy is full of crap. So is Bedard. Hawk looked fine except they kept putting him in coverage and not attacking.
The other issue was and is that are DT wasn't holding the O-lineman long enough which made the MLB look stupid including Bishop.

Thompson looked like shit on Sunday . he was slow and was replaced on the depth chart today by Matthews who is not that great. I saw Clifton pancake him on two separate occasions.

Bottom line it's way too early to draw any conclusions about any of them yet.

[pbmax]

Both publications had Matthews as getting reasonable pressure as well. Clifton pancaking a rookie LB might not be too odd. Did he may any hay against Clifton at all in pass rush?

[Fritz]

Can we somehow get "waffling" included in the football vernacular?

[SkinBasket]

Re: LeRoy Butler says

That Bishop and Thompson look very good, and should be starting over Matthews and Hawk (I'm pretty sure Thompson is starting, but LeRoy is convinced Matthews will ultimately get the nod due to his draft spot).

He said Bishop is by far the best linebacker out there. He is a torpedo that is bowling people over. He said the collision between Bishop and Johnson yesterday was one for the ages.

Evidently Johnson is just a throwback, vintage fullback. He is evidently standing out in practice big time said the WSSP crew, and while he can't catch the ball, he will knock you on your ass and the job is his to lose as lead blocker.

Interesting observations from two former Packers, Gary Ellerson and LeRoy Butler.

Where are you reading/hearing this stuff?

WSSP. He frequently hosts the afternoon show with Gary Ellerson and a couple of other guys.

Hey nutz, is that the radio show you listened to while painting our house? The one where I would walk outside to people just yelling, "BITCH!!!!" and that made you a lot less than lucid by the end of the day, heat stroke notwithstanding?

[sharpe1027]

Sharpe,

I'm off the opinion that a general manager has far more influence over a starting lineup than first glance would reveal.

What if I told you it was my sixth glance?

Of course he has some input, but bottom line, it is not his decision.

[ND72]

Sharpe,

I'm off the opinion that a general manager has far more influence over a starting lineup than first glance would reveal.

What if I told you it was my sixth glance?

Of course he has some input, but bottom line, it is not his decision.

depends on the GM, Jerry Jones...

[Bretsky]

Dude should sign up for Packerrats then.

Robert Meacham- Future Pro Bowl; mark it down

[Waldo]

One of the big things I liked about MM and TT in the beginning was the declaration that they didn't care where you were drafted or what you were paid, the best player would get the job. Several years later I am disappointed as they must have meant: I don't care where Sherman drafted you or pays you, but if you are my guy then you will be handed the job.

Last year Chillar was by far the best LB on the team but almost never started. It sounds like he is lights out so far this year, and if it continues and he doesn't start I will begin to join those who question the current regime. Same with BJack last year as he was clearly superior to Grant early on, but we paid grant so..........

Where do you guys get this stuff. He can blitz, he can cover. Vs. the run, he is the least stout and worst linebacker on the roster, by a decent margin. Barnett, Hawk, Pops, Bishop, and Lansanah were all better run stopping backers. Chillar doesn't have very good feel for run plays and overpursues, and is easily blocked out of a play. He absolutely blows at controlling a gap. There is a reason that the basement dweller Rams had no interest in resigning him. Being good in coverage does not a good linebacker make. That's what DB's are for.

Chillar is basically a SS.

[Lurker64]

Chillar is basically a SS.

Well, if we ever decide to make heavy use out of the "Big Nickel" package, we have our third safety right there!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Reports I've read say Hawk looks outstanding. They also said Thompson was real soft, and Clay took over the starting ROLB spot today. I've heard Johnson makes big hits, but that he runs too high and can't catch. He has some work to do. Funny how different reporters can see different things.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090803/PKR01/90803149/1058

Matthews working with starting defense

It took Clay Matthews three training camp practices to work his way into the Green Bay Packers’ starting lineup. In the first major lineup change of camp, Matthews moved up from the second unit Monday and worked as the starting right outside linebacker, surpassing second-year pro Jeremy Thompson.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/52366632.html

Johnson runs way too high

q johnson can block but he can't catch today

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/ic/blogs/insider/index.shtml

Defensive standout of the day: Hawk, who was a difference-maker in the running game. Most notable, he shed Finley to stuff RB Ryan Grant for a loss in team run; absolutely blew up a power run to Grant in red zone; and got outside to stop RB Kregg Lumpkin for a loss on a toss left.

We also had the first apparent depth-chart jump of camp: rookie Clay Matthews leap-frogging Jeremy Thompson as the first-team right outside linebacker. Coach Mike McCarthy and others downplayed the significance of the switch, but Matthews spent the entire practice with the No. 1 defense while Thompson worked with the 2s and 3s. Matthews seems to be stronger at the point and showed some cover ability when he ran with TE Evan Moore about 15 yards downfield to break up a pass during red-zone work.

[bobblehead]

The only problem with your logic, Bobble, is that Chillar was a TT signing.

Small money and not a high profile draft pick. He should have been playing from about week 3.

My point is that they are "falling in love" with certain guys and giving them extra credit for it. I'm a results kinda guy. The only LB I saw cover anyone last year was Chillar and he was ok against the run as well. I don't recall Barnett before the injury, but we all agree Hawk was playing hurt....Chillar wsa healthy and outplaying him badly, he should have been in the lineup.

[bobblehead]

One of the big things I liked about MM and TT in the beginning was the declaration that they didn't care where you were drafted or what you were paid, the best player would get the job. Several years later I am disappointed as they must have meant: I don't care where Sherman drafted you or pays you, but if you are my guy then you will be handed the job.

Last year Chillar was by far the best LB on the team but almost never started. It sounds like he is lights out so far this year, and if it continues and he doesn't start I will begin to join those who question the current regime. Same with BJack last year as he was clearly superior to Grant early on, but we paid grant so..........

1.) Chillar was not a Sherman pick.
2.) Chillar was the 14th highest salary; Poppinga was the 12th highest. It doesn't get much closer than that.
3.) Why are you hung up on "starter" vs. "nonstarter"? They played Chillar alot, and did so to play to his strength last year, pass coverage.
4.) What the hell does MM care about TT's guys vs. Sherman's guys? TT doesn't set the starting lineup.

Perhaps you have an axe to grind and are seeing conspiracies where there are none because of it? If something like this does not make you sit back and reflect on your feelings/objectivity...

I would say you misread my post. I would also say you have a preconceived notion about me and my objectivity. I'm a huge TT and MM fan in the way they go about business.

1) Never said he was. But he wasn't a TT pick either. He came in as a role player to cover non blocking TE's that Popp couldn't handle. As I said above he outplayed Hawk badly and should have been starting instead of Hawk.
2) Popp is a TT pick and his deal was worth far more overall than Chillars. You are comparing base salaries I believe.
3) I'm hung up on the fact that Chillar was the BEST LB we had last year and didn't play enough. He got on the field later when too many injuriees and bad play mounted. I also pointed out the BJack vs. Grant situation, the guy who got paid got the carries even when BJack was outplaying him badly.
4) If you think MM doesn't care about TT's guys you dont' understand the relationship of a hand picked coach and his GM. They discuss most everything from draft picks to player cuts.

I'm not sure what axe you think I have to grind. I've been a huge supporter of TT and MM going back thousands of posts. I criticize when I think its correct and I back them when I think they are right. I don't know what you mean by me seeing conspiracies and questioning my objectivity. Hell, I'm not even sure why you chose to make this a personal dig....If that doesn't make you sit back and reflect on your self esteem..........