Rodgers' Pocket Sense Deteriorating?

[gex]

I don't think he has lost it at least not like Carr. Carr was ruined because he was physically dominated until he couldn't help but be afraid. Rodgers doesn't fear the pass rush he just ignores it trying to make a play. If he had average NFL protection I think this issue would disappear.

I dunno. Mebbe if I mixed it up and diddnt have drives of all runs den drives of all 30 yard padderns - ya no, sorda mix it up with checkdowns andda few more screens ta take da pressr ofda QB A BIT.

LOL

[gex]

Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.

.

Is this a fact or just your opinion?

[Brandon494]

Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.

.

Is this a fact or just your opinion?

fact

[th87]

Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.

.

Is this a fact or just your opinion?

Be honest - do you ever remember guys coming after Favre this quickly?

But in any case, Favre's instincts are better than Rodgers'. He was born with it. Rodgers has to learn it. And as a result, Rodgers needs an environment that is conducive to learning.

And there seems to be some mental block with him - he'll be able to march the team back to ALMOST a win, but some self-sabotage kicks in right as he's on the verge of a victory. It's really weird.

Check this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyJ4XMoQAwU

USC-Cal, 2004. Cal has the ball, 1st down at the USC 9, ready to score the winning TD. Rodgers almost gets it done, but falls just short. It always seems that he's on the verge of success, but can't get that extra bit. I wonder what it is.

[packerbacker1234]

Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.

.

Is this a fact or just your opinion?

fact

Last year Rodgers had the exact same OL Favre had in 2007. This year, this game, with tausch back, the only change on the OL from what favre had was Sitton over Spitz at G.

And you know what, it wasn't SItton that was the problem. Yes College, I am looking at your shitty ass.

Worse then any favre played behind? He had virtually the same line in 07. For how SUPERIOR the vikings line is, Favre is getting spanked the most since 1999. I mean, favre is getting sacked and hammered. The only reason he isn't sacked as much as AR is because of pocket awareness.

[Brohm]

The playcalling has changed with Farve gone and MM thinks this team is better than it is (or thought after this game). Can't run a deep ball Offense with the line we have. This is no longer a WCO. Slant/YAC are gone, now it's just sack/yak.

[pbmax]

Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.

.

Is this a fact or just your opinion?

Of course it is my opinion. I know of no easily obtainable stat to prove to you that Favre's early career lines were better. But while they couldn't run block for beans at times, they could pass block better than the current line while sleeping.

In 92 he had
LT Ken Ruettgers (1st round)
LG Frank Winters (10th)
LG Rich Moran (3rd)
C James Campen (undrafted I think)
RG Ron Hallstrom (1st)
RT Tootie Robbins (4th)
Ruettgers (30 bum knee) and Hallstrom (34) were high draft picks getting up in years. Robbins was a FA stop gap, but a stop gap that wasn't a turnstile. Frankie was just nasty but not really a guard. He stepped in when Moran got hurt. Robbins was not exactly a cap casualty yet, but his type was easier to get prior to teams figuring out the cap. But he was close to done. It took Wolf until Aaron Taylor to finally get a top notch guard. Then being Wolf he found Timmerman under a rock in Brookings SD in 1995. Please forgive errors of my own causing in this brief and un-annotated Packer History. the Browns did not leave in 1994, so I was only paying partial attention to the Packers at this time.

In 93,
LT Ken Ruettgers
LG Doug Widell (2)
LG Frank Winters
C Frank Winters
RG Harry Galbreath (8th)
RT Tootie Robbins
RT Joe Sims (11th)
Campen's career has ended due to injury and Winters steps in after filling in for guard. Widell is a Bronco high draft pick that simply performed well enough to be replaced the next year after playing in 9 games. Sims briefly made people think we had a RT of the future, but he never got it all figured out. Glabreath was this year's cagey vet signing from the Dolphins I think. But physically, he was about done. He could not be fooled though, so opponents had to beat him physically, which gave everyone a chance. This might have been Favre's most brutal year until 4-12.

In 94, the year he figures it out after nearly being replaced by Mark Brunell,
LT Ken Ruettgers
LG Guy McIntyre (3rd)
LG Frank Winters
C Frank Winters
C Jamie Dukes (undrafted former starter for Atlanta)
RG Harry Galbreath
RT Joe Sims
McIntyre is this year's cagey vet signing and he is even closer to the end than Galbreath who by now looks like a FA steal. But McIntyre is not so lucky and lasts one year. Frankie must have had to cover for Guy as Dukes got 6 starts at center. I remember nothing about him. Sims lasts one year but is inconsistent and gets Wally Pipp'd by Dotson the next year. McIntyre gets replaced by Aaron Taylor and Ruettgers is nearly at the end. But this line can pass block and run a screen. Usually to Ken R's left side or the middle.

[Waldo]

Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.

When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?

Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.

You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.

MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.

AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.

[Partial]

Well said, Waldo.

[pbmax]

Last year Rodgers had the exact same OL Favre had in 2007. This year, this game, with tausch back, the only change on the OL from what favre had was Sitton over Spitz at G.

Not sure the point here. The offense wasn't the problem with the team last year. Remember they kept the offensive staff and fired the other side of the ball? Rodgers most definitely does not have Favre's clock or sliding ability in the pocket. He showed it somewhat this preseason, but it has disappeared and the pressure keeps coming. By the way, the 2008 line, while the same cast of characters, did not pass block the same way as 2007. Tauscher (in addition to getting hurt and missing 4 games) and Clifton each had their worst pass block year since 2000.

And you know what, it wasn't SItton that was the problem. Yes College, I am looking at your shitty ass.

can't argue this. He has been way up or way down. He is a better run blocker, but versus the Bucs, he was getting torched on pass blocking.

Worse then any favre played behind? He had virtually the same line in 07. For how SUPERIOR the vikings line is, Favre is getting spanked the most since 1999. I mean, favre is getting sacked and hammered. The only reason he isn't sacked as much as AR is because of pocket awareness.

Vikings are giving up sacks, but some of that is Favre, who is refusing to throw into crowds and is taking sacks instead this year. At this rate he will set a career low record for INTs. That alone is increasing his sacks. He also no longer has any mobility. That is not helping either. When the hit is coming, he just goes down (except versus Pack). Just think how many more sacks the Packers would have yielded if Rodgers could not escape the pocket.

Your last assertion, that it is pocket awareness alone protecting him from the same harm as Rodgers is lunacy. While I would not want the paycheck for the LT AND LG, I would switch O lines with the Vikings any day.

[th87]

Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.

When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?

Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.

You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.

MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.

AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.

So what do you think happened from last year to this year?

I had a feeling he'd hit a bit of a sophomore slump this year, because he's still trying to figure out what he can get away with. I admit that I thought that it would manifest itself in gambling, resulting in more interceptions, but the reality is that he's gambling by waiting on the big play.

If Carritis doesn't set in, I think next year is when we see the Rodgers that knows when to pick his spots.

[th87]

Rodgers line is far worse than any Favre played behind.

.

Is this a fact or just your opinion?

Of course it is my opinion. I know of no easily obtainable stat to prove to you that Favre's early career lines were better. But while they couldn't run block for beans at times, they could pass block better than the current line while sleeping.

In 92 he had
LT Ken Ruettgers (1st round)
LG Frank Winters (10th)
LG Rich Moran (3rd)
C James Campen (undrafted I think)
RG Ron Hallstrom (1st)
RT Tootie Robbins (4th)
Ruettgers (30 bum knee) and Hallstrom (34) were high draft picks getting up in years. Robbins was a FA stop gap, but a stop gap that wasn't a turnstile. Frankie was just nasty but not really a guard. He stepped in when Moran got hurt. Robbins was not exactly a cap casualty yet, but his type was easier to get prior to teams figuring out the cap. But he was close to done. It took Wolf until Aaron Taylor to finally get a top notch guard. Then being Wolf he found Timmerman under a rock in Brookings SD in 1995. Please forgive errors of my own causing in this brief and un-annotated Packer History. the Browns did not leave in 1994, so I was only paying partial attention to the Packers at this time.

In 93,
LT Ken Ruettgers
LG Doug Widell (2)
LG Frank Winters
C Frank Winters
RG Harry Galbreath (8th)
RT Tootie Robbins
RT Joe Sims (11th)
Campen's career has ended due to injury and Winters steps in after filling in for guard. Widell is a Bronco high draft pick that simply performed well enough to be replaced the next year after playing in 9 games. Sims briefly made people think we had a RT of the future, but he never got it all figured out. Glabreath was this year's cagey vet signing from the Dolphins I think. But physically, he was about done. He could not be fooled though, so opponents had to beat him physically, which gave everyone a chance. This might have been Favre's most brutal year until 4-12.

In 94, the year he figures it out after nearly being replaced by Mark Brunell,
LT Ken Ruettgers
LG Guy McIntyre (3rd)
LG Frank Winters
C Frank Winters
C Jamie Dukes (undrafted former starter for Atlanta)
RG Harry Galbreath
RT Joe Sims
McIntyre is this year's cagey vet signing and he is even closer to the end than Galbreath who by now looks like a FA steal. But McIntyre is not so lucky and lasts one year. Frankie must have had to cover for Guy as Dukes got 6 starts at center. I remember nothing about him. Sims lasts one year but is inconsistent and gets Wally Pipp'd by Dotson the next year. McIntyre gets replaced by Aaron Taylor and Ruettgers is nearly at the end. But this line can pass block and run a screen. Usually to Ken R's left side or the middle.

Great analysis. Young Favre's line wasn't close to as bad as this season's. I've never seen collapsing and breached pockets so quickly.

The pro-Favre guys need to watch the games impartially.

[mmmdk]

McCarthy is either an idiot or a liar; Andy Reid [Eagles] would adjust & actually FIX IT. More quick outs, slants & screens; a guy like Reid calls to his players advantage plus acknowledges the limits of whole offense. McCarthy doesn't get it then how can our young QB?

McCarthy is QB coach at best; not a playcaller & not a headcoach worth much - other than he's owed a lot of money.

Imagine Rodgers with a better offense & headcoach - make your pick there but Rodgers would not get destroyed. AR has taked a step back due to poor OL, lousy headcoach and AR is to blame for believing in his own playmaking abilities - almost to a fault. Even the poor ST destroys ya.

AR is fine...still...I agree with the Carr syndrome.

[elkopackfan]

I just fear ARodg is going to get a season ending injury, which being later in the season could roll over into next season.

[pbmax]

McCarthy is either an idiot or a liar; Andy Reid [Eagles] would adjust & actually FIX IT. More quick outs, slants & screens; a guy like Reid calls to his players advantage plus acknowledges the limits of whole offense. McCarthy doesn't get it then how can our young QB?

McCarthy is QB coach at best; not a playcaller & not a headcoach worth much - other than he's owed a lot of money.

Imagine Rodgers with a better offense & headcoach - make your pick there but Rodgers would not get destroyed. AR has taked a step back due to poor OL, lousy headcoach and AR is to blame for believing in his own playmaking abilities - almost to a fault. Even the poor ST destroys ya.

AR is fine...still...I agree with the Carr syndrome.

Reid gets hammered just like McCarthy for being stubborn and passing all the time. Also for years of not having a go to receiver. The big difference is that he spends a lot of high picks and FA money for his lines. It was a very mixed bag this year, esp. on the offensive line.