Rodgers' Pocket Sense Deteriorating?

[Fritz]

Rodgers hangs on to the ball forever back there; I can't believe no one is getting open at all.

Having said that, am I the only one who sees the outside pass rushers collapsing the edges of the pocket every damn pass play? Doesn't matter whether it's Clifton or Lang, Tauscher or Barbre - both offensive tackles seem to get pushed right back into Rodgers's body. Even when he gets a pass off, it looks like it's coming out of a forest of bodies.

There is no pocket at all for the guy. There's always someone within a foot of the guy. And yes, he's holding on too long. I know that. It's frustrating. But the guy has no pocket around him at all.

[3irty1]

Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.

When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?

Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.

You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.

MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.

AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.

This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.

[g4orce]

Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.

When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?

Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.

You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.

MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.

AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.

This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.

First off, Waldo, that is excellent writing and straight to the point. Awesome post!

Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again. Ya you can feed us those oh he only won one super bowl while he was here but great teams win super bowls, great quarterbacks can still win you games. Aaron Rodgers so far has failed as a QB in the NFL. Why? Because he fails when the balls in his hands and his teammates are looking at him to get the job done, plain and simple.

[gex]

Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.

When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?

Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.

You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.

MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.

AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.

This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.

First off, Waldo, that is excellent writing and straight to the point. Awesome post!

Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again. Ya you can feed us those oh he only won one super bowl while he was here but great teams win super bowls, great quarterbacks can still win you games. Aaron Rodgers so far has failed as a QB in the NFL. Why? Because he fails when the balls in his hands and his teammates are looking at him to get the job done, plain and simple.

As someone who loves what Favre has done for our organization, I think your being to hard on A-rod. The kid is doing all that he can and putting up great stats to go along with it. There is only a few elite qb's in the game that could overcome the weakness's of this team. I would put A-rod in the top 10-12 range of qb's as he does put up points.

[Scott Campbell]

Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again.

The 3 picks yesterday reminded me a lot of Old Favre.

[g4orce]

Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.

When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?

Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.

You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.

MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.

AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.

This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.

First off, Waldo, that is excellent writing and straight to the point. Awesome post!

Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again. Ya you can feed us those oh he only won one super bowl while he was here but great teams win super bowls, great quarterbacks can still win you games. Aaron Rodgers so far has failed as a QB in the NFL. Why? Because he fails when the balls in his hands and his teammates are looking at him to get the job done, plain and simple.

As someone who loves what Favre has done for our organization, I think your being to hard on A-rod. The kid is doing all that he can and putting up great stats to go along with it. There is only a few elite qb's in the game that could overcome the weakness's of this team. I would put A-rod in the top 10-12 range of qb's as he does put up points.

Maybe I am being "too hard" on Arod. But I don't want to start thinking this is what I have to look forward to with the Packers. We won a lotta games the past 2 decades and I don't want us to start going into seasons not knowing how good we'll be. I loved going into a season and knowing 10 wins was about right where we'd be and if we got some luck, or a few players turned out better, we'd have a couple more wins and at least have a shot in the playoffs. Ya, it only worked once, but its a lot better than the bullshit 4-12, 6-10, and pretty soon to be 6-10 team I'm watching this year. I dont want to keep putting up with it and I hope other Packer fans are as sick to their stomachs about the man in charge of this team as I am.

[g4orce]

Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again.

The 3 picks yesterday reminded me a lot of Old Favre.

Let me know the day when Arod gets us even in the playoffs... thanks for playing.

[gex]

Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again.

The 3 picks yesterday reminded me a lot of Old Favre.

Your not banned yet?

[mraynrand]

Second, you're right, hes never gonna be Favre. But even us "Favre lovers" as we're called are just sick of the guy not getting it done when the games on the line. We had that for so long, maybe we're spolied and maybe we're not, but we want that again.

http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view&current=favremoonshot.flv

http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view&current=favrebailout.flv

http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view&current=favreslastGBtoss.flv

[sharpe1027]

This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.

I agree that a comparison to Favre is incorrect and not fair. That being said, IMHO, Rogers held the ball too long and seemed to have plent yof time to throw to WRs even for his strengths. I don't recall him holding the ball that long last year. Something's changed.

[Scott Campbell]

I agree that a comparison to Favre is incorrect and not fair. That being said, IMHO, Rogers held the ball too long and seemed to have plent yof time to throw to WRs even for his strengths. I don't recall him holding the ball that long last year. Something's changed.

Totally agreed. It looked like he was starting to get it out quicker in the 2nd half against MN, but regressed badly in this game. He seemingly got worse as the game wore on. It was his worst game of the season by far.

[mraynrand]

I agree that a comparison to Favre is incorrect and not fair. That being said, IMHO, Rogers held the ball too long and seemed to have plent yof time to throw to WRs even for his strengths. I don't recall him holding the ball that long last year. Something's changed.

Totally agreed. It looked like he was starting to get it out quicker in the 2nd half against MN, but regressed badly in this game. He seemingly got worse as the game wore on. It was his worst game of the season by far.

And then McCarthy doesn't help him much either. Switches to all run when they're up by 5, has some success, and then completely ignores the run when down by three, even with almost 5 minutes left. Much of the blame can go to Rodgers, but a little balance might have helped him out.

[Scott Campbell]

I guess it's really difficult to gauge exactly how bad Rodgers played with the line playing this badly. I didn't notice TB bringing extra rushers. They got plenty of pressure with their front 4.

[sharpe1027]

Although this can't explain most of the issues, I think he is missing his newly found security blanket, J. Finley. They guy was a matchup problem and always seemed to be open.

[Waldo]

Maybe I'm missing some piece that all of you have.

When was the last time you recall AR throwing it at the top of his drop?
When did you last see him throw a guy open?
When did he last throw it into a tight window to a well covered receiver?
When was the last time you saw a WR cut after the ball had been thrown?

Every play seems like a broken play with AR back there. He never throws to his first read. If a guy is covered, he only throws to him on the sideline. Otherwise he only throws to wide open guys. This is the NFL. Not throwing into tight spots is not a luxury that NFL QB's have.

You know what. If he did these things, his rating would go down. His YPA would go down. His completion % would go down. His sacks would go down. 3rd and longs would go down. He would throw for a few more interceptions. He would throw more TD's. Drives would continue. He would win more games.

MM doesn't call 4 WR all go's on every play. AR chooses when and to who to throw to. Every play has a hot outlet. Every play has fast windows. Our WR's know how to sit down on zone edges and look for the ball in unexpected coverage holes. AR has to anticipate them being there. By the time they are open, they are closed. The indecisive QB will miss them all.

AR needs to ask himself. How many sacks is an int worth? Since sacks are just about as drive killing as an int. And he is choosing to take sacks to avoid ints at all costs.

This could only be written by a person who watched 700 hours of Brett Favre during their life. Favre redefined the west coast offense. NOBODY in the league throws their receivers open or unleashes the ball at the top of their drop as well as #4 and most would look like JaMarcus Russel if they tried. I agree that A-Rod gets greedy while trying to buy time and makes a bad OL look even worse but I just don't think this is A-Rods game at least not yet. A-Rod has a different set of strengths. He can't be compared to Favre or expected to win the way Favre wins. IMO he's more like Steve Young or Ben Rothesburger.

P. Manning pwns Brett at that.

This is coming from somebody that watches how guys like Romo, E. Manning, Rivers, M Ryan, Brees, etc... do it.

Early (like pre-'07) Aaron really struggled deciding what to do. He just held the ball and got sacked.

Even early in '08 (PS) these problems cropped up again.

Young starters in the NFL tend to have a dumbed down playbook and system that stresses throwing the ball fast. Aaron got that at first.

However it seems that as he has gotten more comfortable, he is regressing to a more natural version of himself and not pressing to quickly get rid of the ball.

You can tell that MM is starting to get angry about this. In the post game presser he blamed Aaron, not the line. It is not like McCarthy to call out his QB in public.

What can he do?

He can try stressing this with Aaron all he wants, what if Aaron isn't listening? Earlier in the season Aaron was nonchalant about the sacks, people pointed out to him that he was holding it too long and was a big part of the problem, and he responded with a "so".

McCarthy has been seen recently yelling at Aaron as he comes off the field after taking unnecessary sacks.

Even if he's not throwing a lot of ints, at what point do the unnecessary sacks basically become ints as it relates to the game. Does McCarthy have the nuts to pull Aaron if he truly feels that Aaron is the problem?

Of course Aaron could always pull himself by being injured. IMO Aaron has to watch his back and not get too comfortable.

Flynn very much strikes me as a Tom Brady type QB. Came into the league with a weak arm and underdeveloped body, that didn't get a chance to play much in college but was good when he did. Flynn has crazy intangibles and is one heck of a natural leader on the field. He was good in the clutch in college, and has been good in the clutch with us (though drops have really hampered a bunch of clutch plays by him, at least he had a catchable ball in the WR's hands). He's looked better than expected every time he played since family night '08. Just this week reporters commented on how sharp he looked. He had mechanics issues and strength issues when he was drafted. If those go away.....

Just like Brady, he could get his shot via injury, and not look back. Bledsoe was a good QB too. It would be preposterous to think that wimpy late round pick could take Bledsoe's job just one week before Drew got injured. The rest...is history.

Maybe that is what kept Brett on his toes for his whole career, and what has kept Brady on his toes, knowing that they were nothing until the established starter got hurt, and they stole his job. And that it is one play away from happening. Aaron doesn't seem to take that threat serious. But he should.

What would you do if Aaron broke his ankle vs Dallas, was out 7 weeks, Flynn came in, was sacked 1/3rd as much as Aaron, had a worse rating, but led the team well, saved the day twice, and went 6-1. Week 17 we're at 10-5, need a win to get the final WC spot. Who plays? That exact same decision created the 2000's Pats dynasty.