Aaron Rodgers now..

[pbmax]

Someone is going to have to get into the meat of the methodology before drawing conclusions because the Stats Inc. numbers cited by Waldo are a LITTLE different from ESPN.

Overall YAC Rank Team Name Yards YAC % Passing Yards

6. Packers 1378 [47.67%]
10. Vikings 1293 [51.91%]
14. Bears 1227 [51.13%]
15. Lions 1222 [52.40%]

[ThunderDan]

Someone is going to have to get into the meat of the methodology before drawing conclusions because the Stats Inc. numbers cited by Waldo are a LITTLE different from ESPN.

Overall YAC Rank Team Name Yards YAC % Passing Yards

6. Packers 1378 [47.67%]
10. Vikings 1293 [51.91%]
14. Bears 1227 [51.13%]
15. Lions 1222 [52.40%]

I can't find YAC anywhere on the ESPN site. Where did you find this?

[pbmax]

Advanced NFL Stats

Air Yards - The QB dependent portion of Passing Yards

Money Paragraph

Air Yds/Completion accounts for 56% of the variance in Yds/Attempt, while YAC/Completion accounts for 20% of the variance. As a proportion of the total variance explained by both variables, Air Yds accounts for 74%, and YAC accounts for the other 26%. Put simply, Air Yards are 3 times as important than YAC in producing total passing efficiency.

Who Gets Credit For YAC

[pbmax]

Someone is going to have to get into the meat of the methodology before drawing conclusions because the Stats Inc. numbers cited by Waldo are a LITTLE different from ESPN.

Overall YAC Rank Team Name Yards YAC % Passing Yards

6. Packers 1378 [47.67%]
10. Vikings 1293 [51.91%]
14. Bears 1227 [51.13%]
15. Lions 1222 [52.40%]

I can't find YAC anywhere on the ESPN site. Where did you find this?

Bobblehead got his YAC numebrs from one of the ESPN NFL blogs.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/11318/air-and-space-talkin-yac-in-the-nfc-north

My data is from Waldo's earlier post from Stat's Inc.

[sharpe1027]

Someone is going to have to get into the meat of the methodology before drawing conclusions because the Stats Inc. numbers cited by Waldo are a LITTLE different from ESPN.

Overall YAC Rank Team Name Yards YAC % Passing Yards

6. Packers 1378 [47.67%]
10. Vikings 1293 [51.91%]
14. Bears 1227 [51.13%]
15. Lions 1222 [52.40%]

I think the blog was an older date.

[Packers4Ever]

[quote="packers11"]Partial will never let this fking argument up. I am so sick of watching this shit in every fking Rodgers thread..

K ...

Tom Brady sucks (moss-welker make him) Look at the "stats" he never threw over 30 td's before they came... His surrounding cast makes him ...

Brees sucks. 8-8 last year with all those weapons?! Are you kidding me, that explosive offense and you cannot get past 8-8, your just a product of the system...

Partial, I never bash posters, and i've let all your rambling pass by me, but man, you just are going way to far with this shit...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
So why are you reading his threads? Just pass them by, man....it's
that easy !!

[RashanGary]

Just dropping in to give Partial some public credit that I think he's owed from me. This seems like as good of thread as any to do it.

He's argued something has been wrong with the QB position since Favre left and I agree. Rodgers has really cost us up until these last couple weeks and I was unable to see it because of the stats.

In some ways, I think Favre masked coaching flaws in McCarthy. From what I understand of McCarthy's offense, there are different progressions for each passing play depending on defense and then checks if the play is just bad all together. The problem with that is defenses are paid too. They can easily show one thing and then do another. If a QB goes to the line, thinks he's getting cover 3 and sets his progression, he's going to be in a world of hurt when he finds out the corners are sitting short and now he has to start flipping through his progressions.

It seems like Rodgers is running into a lot of problems with masked coverage (much more earlier in the season). Several times I heard McCarthy talk about defenses masking coverages, causing Rodgers to go through his reads a little more and then they blamed the OL.

Favre wasn't so robotic in the offense. Sometimes, If Favre saw a corner 4 yards off, knew his receiver was running a slant and knew he could count on him to make a touch catch, Favre would just take what he saw as a sure thing instead of trying to run the perfect play. Favre seems to rely more on just making good, old fashioned plays. McCarthy seems to want the QB to get in a perfect play and go through the perfect progression, but what about when a defense does something completely different after the snap. Now the QB has to change his presnap thinking and go to plan B. The result is sacks.


McCarthy never learned because Favre never let him. If something wasn't working, I get the impression Favre just did what he wanted instead of finding out the hard way. McCarthy and Rodgers found out the hard way this year.


I'm not sure Rodgers can be a real great QB. Despite his numbers, those sacks have been completely unacceptable and IMO should knock his QB rating down at least 10 pts if not more.



Rodger is finally starting to truly play great IMO (last couple weeks) but even that hasn't happened consistently enough for me to really believe in this McCarthy/Rodgers pair.

Partial has been right up until now IMO. Stats aside, until recently I don't think Rodgers has done as good of job as we're used to, leading a team to points and long drives. Until the last few weeks (compared to Favre) he's been a big reason we weren't as good as we were with him. Favre wasn't a big play guy in the sense that he made more big, crazy throws than Rodgers. Rodgers makes more WOW plays IMO. More last year and way more this year than Favre has made in years. Favre gives a big mother fucking WOW for how he manages an offense, sustains drives and scores points. Favre's WOW isn't individual big plays like Rodgers last year and part of this year, it's scoring points.

[Smidgeon]

Just dropping in to give Partial some public credit that I think he's owed from me. This seems like as good of thread as any to do it.

He's argued something has been wrong with the QB position since Favre left and I agree. Rodgers has really cost us up until these last couple weeks and I was unable to see it because of the stats.

In some ways, I think Favre masked coaching flaws in McCarthy. From what I understand of McCarthy's offense, there are different progressions for each passing play depending on defense and then checks if the play is just bad all together. The problem with that is defenses are paid too. They can easily show one thing and then do another. If a QB goes to the line, thinks he's getting cover 3 and sets his progression, he's going to be in a world of hurt when he finds out the corners are sitting short and now he has to start flipping through his progressions.

It seems like Rodgers is running into a lot of problems with masked coverage (much more earlier in the season). Several times I heard McCarthy talk about defenses masking coverages, causing Rodgers to go through his reads a little more and then they blamed the OL.

Favre wasn't so robotic in the offense. Sometimes, If Favre saw a corner 4 yards off, knew his receiver was running a slant and knew he could count on him to make a touch catch, Favre would just take what he saw as a sure thing instead of trying to run the perfect play. Favre seems to rely more on just making good, old fashioned plays. McCarthy seems to want the QB to get in a perfect play and go through the perfect progression, but what about when a defense does something completely different after the snap. Now the QB has to change his presnap thinking and go to plan B. The result is sacks.


McCarthy never learned because Favre never let him. If something wasn't working, I get the impression Favre just did what he wanted instead of finding out the hard way. McCarthy and Rodgers found out the hard way this year.


I'm not sure Rodgers can be a real great QB. Despite his numbers, those sacks have been completely unacceptable and IMO should knock his QB rating down at least 10 pts if not more.



Rodger is finally starting to truly play great IMO (last couple weeks) but even that hasn't happened consistently enough for me to really believe in this McCarthy/Rodgers pair.

Partial has been right up until now IMO. Stats aside, until recently I don't think Rodgers has done as good of job as we're used to, leading a team to points and long drives. Until the last few weeks (compared to Favre) he's been a big reason we weren't as good as we were with him. Favre wasn't a big play guy in the sense that he made more big, crazy throws than Rodgers. Rodgers makes more WOW plays IMO. More last year and way more this year than Favre has made in years. Favre gives a big mother fucking WOW for how he manages an offense, sustains drives and scores points. Favre's WOW isn't individual big plays like Rodgers last year and part of this year, it's scoring points.

Now where are you comparing Rodgers to Favre? Rodgers to Favre with 17 years of experience, with 15 years, 10 years, or the same 1.5 years that Rodgers has? It seems based on your argument that Favre could do it and Rodgers can't that Rodgers may never be great. Give him the same experience Favre had, then let's compare how well he makes those adjustments at the line...

[RashanGary]

Hopefully it was a matter of getting a couple seasons under his belt and the recent Rodgers is the real Rodgers. If that's the case, he can be one of the special players that helps lead us to a championship.

If he plays like he played for his first year and half starting (stats aside), I don't think we can win.



Comparing Favre to Rodgers:

Rodgers should knock 15 pts off his QB rating for all the dumb sacks and when you do that, I think the numbers show what really happened, we took a step back. Hopefully it was a step back to take two forward, but I agree with Partial now, we took a step back and a significant one.

[RashanGary]

Now where are you comparing Rodgers to Favre? Rodgers to Favre with 17 years of experience, with 15 years, 10 years, or the same 1.5 years that Rodgers has? It seems based on your argument that Favre could do it and Rodgers can't that Rodgers may never be great. Give him the same experience Favre had, then let's compare how well he makes those adjustments at the line...

That's true. But Favre was such a physical specimen. I don't think Rodgers will be able to play in the NFL at 40. Favre's physical ability allowed him to get that experience.

I'm hopeful that Rodgers can learn quicker though. Rodgers seems like a qucker study than Favre. I'm certainly not saying Rodgers can't be a great QB.

[RashanGary]

If Rodgers can quickly become a cerebral QB like Manning and Brady did, look the hell out. Rodgers, IMO, can throw the football with the greatest of the great.

Now can he take the next step and do all of it without getting sacked like the great ones too? If he does that the Packers are looking at entering a special era. The way he's played the last couple weeks (Dallas, SF, DET) I think he's been one of the greatest players in the NFL. Is it real though? Is this him growing or is he going to go back to the Rodgers we're used to?

[esoxx]

Wow, look who crawled in during the dark of night.

I know, you'll start out with your mild and mainstream view of things, soft pedaling your points so nicely.

Seems like a rationale fellow.

But Sybil isn't far underneath the surface. Hey, is that Bill Bixby over there?

By Day #2 you'll start a twisted thread about good and evil, right and wrong, blah, blah, blah.

Or is that Day #3?

Anyways, nice to have you back Alonzo.

[channtheman]

I disagree that we took a step back and I also don't think Favre would be playing so well if he was still with the Packers.

Favre in Green Bay could do no wrong. Yes, we all screamed at the TV at the stupid INT's but if he was still in Green Bay, we would excuse it for all the plays he made.

TT shipped Favre outta town and he wanted to prove to TT he could still do it. He got hurt in New York and from then I think he realized he couldn't make all the throws. That along with wanting to get back at TT has made Favre, now more than ever, play within the system. He takes what the defense gives him and when he goes deep it is to 1 on 1 coverage or the guy is open. You don't see those lame duck passes from Favre anymore. Favre in his younger years never stayed in the system and always thought he could fit it in there, leading to a lot of unnecessary INT's in the red zone and on 1st down.

[bobblehead]

Wow, look who crawled in during the dark of night.

I know, you'll start out with your mild and mainstream view of things, soft pedaling your points so nicely.

Seems like a rationale fellow.

But Sybil isn't far underneath the surface. Hey, is that Bill Bixby over there?

By Day #2 you'll start a twisted thread about good and evil, right and wrong, blah, blah, blah.

Or is that Day #3?

Anyways, nice to have you back Alonzo.

At least he is bothering to take a day of good cause....and your incredible civility shown here I'm sure makes it easier for him to continue posting politely.

[3irty1]

The Favre/Rodgers comparisons are failing to recognize the dramatic improvements in Favre. He took a monster step forward in 2007 and another monster step this year. I believe his time away from football has given him a new mindset. He has realized his own limits and is now playing within those limits. Until the last few years I'd much prefer to have the Aaron Rodgers over the player Favre was for most of his career.

The arguments against Rodgers are getting thinner and thinner. He might now be Peyton Manning but IMO he's at least as good as Big Ben and asking for more than that is just being greedy.