Number 1 rank Defense

[pack4to84]

Right, who cares? Both are very good at it. Vikes D is better imo. It's the pass rush that's the difference.

So you would rather have a Defense that get sacks and not turnovers? Would rather have a Defense that forces the QB to have a bad rating GB 71.1 vs MN 88.1?

[Fred's Slacks]

I agree that points should be the top consideration. However it doesn't tell the whole story. If MN's special teams were as atrocious as ours, they'd have given up a lot more points then they have. With that said, I still think their defense should get a slight edge only because they have more playmakers in their front 7.

My only beef with our D is that it seems to ALWAYS give up a TD when given the short field. I know they were put in a shitty situation but it would be nice if they held them to a FG once in a while (and not head butt anyone giving them another shot) when put in that situation.

I like our D and we are light years ahead of where we were last year. It's nice to have a very good D again.

[Smidgeon]

I still think their defense should get a slight edge only because they have more playmakers in their front 7.

I see your slight edge in Minn's front 7 and raise you GB's secondary...

[MichiganPackerFan]

Defense preventing points is important (Partials post is certainly valid)
Defense scoring points is a bonus
Defense creating turnovers takes the opponents opportunity to score and gives it to your offense. Thats a +2 opportunity to score swing.

Because it's a team game, its not a cookie cutter on which is the best way to go. If your offense cant score points (Im talking to you redskins) then your defense needs to score a couple and provide lots of opportunities. If your offense can score at will (saints) Simply limiting the opponent a bit is enough to win.

[sharpe1027]

how is forcing one turnover and giving up 27 points better than not forcing a turnover but pitching a shutout

How is forcing 100 turnovers and giving up 3 points not better than 0 turnovers and pitching a shutout?

[Partial]

how is forcing one turnover and giving up 27 points better than not forcing a turnover but pitching a shutout

How is forcing 100 turnovers and giving up 3 points not better than 0 turnovers and pitching a shutout?

Because if I force 100 turnovers and don't score 3 points, I lose. Worst case scenario if I give up 0 points I tie.

[3irty1]

I give credit to Dom Capers but I definitely believe that the defensive improvement is mostly addition by subtraction of Bob Sanders. Nobody in the NFL was doing less with more.

[sharpe1027]

how is forcing one turnover and giving up 27 points better than not forcing a turnover but pitching a shutout

How is forcing 100 turnovers and giving up 3 points not better than 0 turnovers and pitching a shutout?

Because if I force 100 turnovers and don't score 3 points, I lose. Worst case scenario if I give up 0 points I tie.

Yet, you ignore the absurdity of your hypothetical, which misses the point completely. No defense will shutout every team, even the best are lucky if it happens once a year. So you need to score points to win (or to tie...because that's a really common occurrence). Arguing that points given up is the only relevant stat is poor analysis.

On any given drive, the best thing a defense can do is score a touchdown or a safety. The second best thing a defense can do is to force a turnover. The third best thing is to force a punt. Fourth would probably be a field goal. The worst thing is giving up a TD.

[ThunderDan]

how is forcing one turnover and giving up 27 points better than not forcing a turnover but pitching a shutout

How is forcing 100 turnovers and giving up 3 points not better than 0 turnovers and pitching a shutout?

Because if I force 100 turnovers and don't score 3 points, I lose. Worst case scenario if I give up 0 points I tie.

Yet, you ignore the absurdity of your hypothetical, which misses the point completely. No defense will shutout every team, even the best are lucky if it happens once a year. So you need to score points to win (or to tie...because that's a really common occurrence). Arguing that points given up is the only relevant stat is poor analysis.

On any given drive, the best thing a defense can do is score a touchdown or a safety. The second best thing a defense can do is to force a turnover. The third best thing is to force a punt. Fourth would probably be a field goal. The worst thing is giving up a TD.

This is why I actual like the YPG number as a "pretty" good gauge of a defense.

If you only give up 280 ypg and the opponent starts on their own 20 yard line. They hypothetically will be able to score 3 touchdowns and a very long FG attempt. The reality is offenses get 8-10 drives a game. If my D gives up 280 yards a game that's 28-35 yards a drive. As long as I don't lose the field position game my D should be stout.

Now, the teams that win the turnover game and have excellent special teams can significantly change the field position game. A D can give up 38 yards and 21 points (TB game anyone) but it should never happen.

So back to above, the Packers ST suck. Now lets say the opponent starts on their own 40 yard line. 280 yards now gives up 4 TD and a midrange FG. Now my offense needs to score an additional TD a game also to keep even. If I am still starting on my 20 because the other teams ST is OK I need 370 yards of O to try and put up the same numbers.

280 yards for them vs 370 for us. That's 32% more offense needed. Hmmm... and just magically our D gives up 281 ypg and our O generates 382 ypg. No wonder why I have felt very unsecure during most Packer games this year.

[RashanGary]

ST's (all of them and no improvement has been shown so far)
Penalties (slight improvement lately but not nearly enough)
Red Zone Defense
Red Zone Offense


That's how I order our issues right now. The defense does need to get better in the redzone. 60% fail rate isn't too good.

[Smidgeon]

I think one part of the ST equation will correct itself depending on what they do with Blackman in the offseason. Doesn't he have (supposedly) elite stop, change direction, and start speeds? Granted, it doesn't solve even most of the equation, but having a punt returner who can do something certainly helps.

[MJZiggy]

how is forcing one turnover and giving up 27 points better than not forcing a turnover but pitching a shutout

How is forcing 100 turnovers and giving up 3 points not better than 0 turnovers and pitching a shutout?

Because if I force 100 turnovers and don't score 3 points, I lose. Worst case scenario if I give up 0 points I tie.

If you force 100 turnovers and your offense does not score more than 3 points, they need to be taken out back and shot...or at least fired or something.

[Partial]

how is forcing one turnover and giving up 27 points better than not forcing a turnover but pitching a shutout

How is forcing 100 turnovers and giving up 3 points not better than 0 turnovers and pitching a shutout?

Because if I force 100 turnovers and don't score 3 points, I lose. Worst case scenario if I give up 0 points I tie.

Yet, you ignore the absurdity of your hypothetical, which misses the point completely. No defense will shutout every team, even the best are lucky if it happens once a year. So you need to score points to win (or to tie...because that's a really common occurrence). Arguing that points given up is the only relevant stat is poor analysis.

On any given drive, the best thing a defense can do is score a touchdown or a safety. The second best thing a defense can do is to force a turnover. The third best thing is to force a punt. Fourth would probably be a field goal. The worst thing is giving up a TD.

Who is making a hypothetical? Surely not I. I called you on the outrageousness of your statement. Why not own up to it that you slipped up and let it go. No big thang.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

how is forcing one turnover and giving up 27 points better than not forcing a turnover but pitching a shutout

How is forcing 100 turnovers and giving up 3 points not better than 0 turnovers and pitching a shutout?

Because if I force 100 turnovers and don't score 3 points, I lose. Worst case scenario if I give up 0 points I tie.

Yet, you ignore the absurdity of your hypothetical, which misses the point completely. No defense will shutout every team, even the best are lucky if it happens once a year. So you need to score points to win (or to tie...because that's a really common occurrence). Arguing that points given up is the only relevant stat is poor analysis.

On any given drive, the best thing a defense can do is score a touchdown or a safety. The second best thing a defense can do is to force a turnover. The third best thing is to force a punt. Fourth would probably be a field goal. The worst thing is giving up a TD.

Who is making a hypothetical? Surely not I. I called you on the outrageousness of your statement. Why not own up to it that you slipped up and let it go. No big thang.

Irony alert!!!!

[ThunderDan]

Last year PITT had the top rated D in the NFL at 13.9 ppg and 237 ypg.

PITT only had 1 shutout the whole season. A 31-0 beating of CLE in the last game of the season. They forced 2 TOs that game.