Packers, Finley leaning towards long-term deal, agent says

[KYPack]

Maybe in your eyes and the writer but I don't remember seeing any quote stating that.

Perhaps you should explain to me how breaking out of his slant route in 3 steps instead of 5 caused Rodgers to overthrow a wide open Finley? The only thing Finley did was get open 2 steps quicker. Bottom line Rodgers should have made the throw and 9 times out of 10 does make it.

Listen to Uncle Patler, Brandon.

This is an example of one of Finely greatest sins. He's a sloppy route runner. He has a tendency to not be precise in his pattern. The most important part of a pass route ain't getting open in a spot. It's the rhythmn of the route. Especially in the Packer O, you must run your route precisely. You should come open at just the proper time, so ARod can put the ball in the spot with flawless timing. JF will run a sloppy route bc in he's in hurry to get his hands on the ball. He's still learning his role in the big picture. it will help him in the long run. When he learns how to run the slant right, it will set him up for the sluggo. Now he doesn't get sluggo's because the DBacks don't respect his slants. The kid is so talanted, he gets away with a ton of mistakes, becuase of his brilliant ability.

All that shit said, he will be back. The franchise number for TE's will be about 5.5 million per year. This kid is still only 24. the team will try like hell to sign him to a long term deal, but at the minimum they will franchise him.

[mraynrand]

All that may be true, KY, but Rodgers still coulda put the ball on him.

[Brandon494]

I understand how important route running is but on that play he was WIDE OPEN! Finley breaking out of his route 2 steps quicker had nothing to do with Rodgers trying to throw a bullet to a wide open reiever and over throwing him.

[Patler]

Maybe in your eyes and the writer but I don't remember seeing any quote stating that.

Perhaps you should explain to me how breaking out of his slant route in 3 steps instead of 5 caused Rodgers to overthrow a wide open Finley? The only thing Finley did was get open 2 steps quicker. Bottom line Rodgers should have made the throw and 9 times out of 10 does make it.

McAdoo quote from print:
“What happened is, he hit the hole and he got there a little bit quick. And that forced him to throttle down, as opposed to taking five (steps) and getting there in stride,” McAdoo explained. “And it kind of threw the timing between him and the quarterback off a little bit.
“One more step and it’s a completion and we’re looking at a different ballgame possibly.”

McCarthy quote from video of press conference:
"You want him to run 5, so the quarterback can clearly look off, then establish where to throw the ball to, like Aaron was doing on that play."


Why does 3 steps instead of 5 cause an incompletion? Tonight I will look again at the game. My recollection is that Rodgers was releasing the ball before Finley made his break, or at least as Finley started to break, before he expected Finley to make his break. He was throwing to where he expected Finley would be after completing a five step route. Finley came up two strides short of where he should have been. Rarely does a QB have the luxury of throwing to where a receiver is. He throws to where he expects the player to be when the ball gets there, based on the route he expects the receiver to run.

[mraynrand]

I still don't get it. If Finley runs 3 steps throttled down compared to 5 steps at the right speed, the play should be about the same.

I'm guessing the coaches are saying that Finley broke too soon, throttled down, and Rodgers threw as though Finley were running full speed after what should have been a 5 step pattern and break, which is what he expected. But, Rodgers isn't throwing blind. he's still looking at the receiver - and he did look at Finley on that play, albeit briefly, after coming back to the right. He can still put the ball on Finley, even if he's running a different speed and/or depth.

I'm not going to put a percent fault breakdown on it, but given how football is played there's no way I'm pinning the majority of the blame on Finley.

[Patler]

I understand how important route running is but on that play he was WIDE OPEN! Finley breaking out of his route 2 steps quicker had nothing to do with Rodgers trying to throw a bullet to a wide open reiever and over throwing him.

Actually, having just listened to McCarthy and thinking about it a little more, with what you remember of Finley being wide open at the time of the throw (I remember it a bit differently, but I will accept yours for now) what probably happened was this:

Rodgers was looking the other direction intentionally to influence coverage, both he and MM stated such.
He came back to Finley, expecting to see Finley still in his route, but instead may have seen him done or just completing it.
Realizing Finley was a lot early, Rodgers hurried his release and tried to rifle the ball to get it there before the DB recovered.

It jives with all of the comments:
McAdoo saying the timing was off.
McAdoo saying that just one more step would have lead to a completion (More time, different location).
MM saying you need 5 steps to give QB enough time to look off and then come back with time to establish his target and throw.
AR saying he missed his target a little.

[Smidgeon]

I feel that way too. Is Rodgers such a robot he can't recalculate a receiver bumped slightly off a route or making a two-step error? This wasn't a back shoulder throw, it was a slant.

Btw, don't do the math in your head or Hoosier will mock you. This site demands slide rule accuracy, and that's okay.
Peer pressure makes us grate.

I don't have the play available to review. Did Rodgers throw the ball before Finley's break or after?

[sharpe1027]

It seems to me that: In the first instance his cut occurs at 3 yards and he basically stops running to sit in a pocket of the defense. In the second instance, his cut occurs 2 yards later (difference in both timing and location) and he is running at full speed when the pass is thrown. The difference is 2 yards, timing and being stopped vs. running at full speed. I'm not saying that Rodgers couldn't have adjusted for the shorter route, but it certainly seems like a pretty big difference in where the pass needs to be thrown.

I'd like to see it again to get a better idea of the timing.

[mraynrand]

I don't have the play available to review. Did Rodgers throw the ball before Finley's break or after?

I'm pretty sure it was after. If you think about it, it had to be. If he only ran three steps and cut, he wold be into his cut well before Rodgers was going to come back to him. Therefore, the throttle-down, therefore, the missed timing on the throw, assuming Rodgers robotically threw it to a spot.

[swede]

Slide rule? Loser!

Get real! When I was in high school a rig like that cost 300 bucks. I can't imagine how much they are now.!

[sharpe1027]

If Rodgers was looking away and then came back and threw immediately, I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that he would throw the pass expecting Finley to be running a slant per the play call rather than stopping. How can we expect Rodgers to process, in a split second, the fact that Finley is not only through his cut 2 yards early, but also stopping his route because of it? I readily admit that it still was not the best throw, but pretending that running a 3 yard route instead of a 5 yard route doesn't make any difference seems unrealistic to me.

[denverYooper]

This is the downside of the adjustments QBs and receivers make that are not in the playbook, or are options depending on the coverage/defense. It works great when both are on the same page (see back shoulder throws) but when they are off, it makes a simple play look bad. Even McCarthy said Finley wasn't the first receiver to run 3 steps and cut on that route, the unspoken intention of which is to probably to the open zone faster and more directly. And he admitted that adjustment has worked for others before. Not saying that Finley was correct, but clearly something about that route begs it to be cut short.

The culprit in this case, I would be willing to bet, is Rodgers internal clock. While the Packers did a good job on the initial Giants pass rush, Rodgers did not have a clean pocket for long in that game and he took to bailing quicker than normal. And he bailed not just when there were free rushers, but when lineman got close even with blockers around.

If his head had given him permission to wait for a half second, he would have thrown a different ball. As it was, they should have, as a group, dumped the mini adjustments and just run the play cold. I think that Finley has more trouble with those in route adjustments (and is less predictable) and that is a large reason why half of the passes to Finley looked either off target or got to him while he was in an awkward position.

This brings up another possible reason for Finley's problems this year: he's been expected to do a lot more. I remember an article from earlier in the year where M3 stated that Finley had to know basically all of the WR and TE routes + adjustments. I think that some of that might be the impetus behind Baratz trying to push for the WR tag on Fin--because his client had to know all of the WR positions.

It also makes sense that M3 would defend Jermichael as he has because he knows this and he figures that once the playbook has sunk in enough Finley will be a monster. One thing he always emphasizes is that Finley is still very young so I think they will give Finley a good year or three to mature and grow within their system.

As far as the play being discussed, the Pack dumping their route adjustments might very well have brought a level of comfort back in a stressful situation, but I've never noticed McCarthy make such an in-game adjustment. For the most part it seems that they will run their offense in all of its formational glory into the ground, if need be, with the expectation that it will pay off in the long run. This is likely a discussion that will be had in the offseason but there is a good chance that the right "adjustment" for Finley to make there might have been none at all and that is what McAdoo was getting at.

[swede]

The culprit in this case, I would be willing to bet, is Rodgers internal clock. While the Packers did a good job on the initial Giants pass rush, Rodgers did not have a clean pocket for long in that game and he took to bailing quicker than normal. And he bailed not just when there were free rushers, but when lineman got close even with blockers around.

Good post. I'm buying that. I don't understand it as well as you do but I am buying it.

Rodgers, as good as he was that day, was rattled by the pressure and lack of mojo with his receivers. The only thing left to do is throw earlier and harder.

[smuggler]

Get real! When I was in high school a rig like that cost 300 bucks. I can't imagine how much they are now.!

Much less, as with many technologies, the prices trend down.

[MJZiggy]

Get real! When I was in high school a rig like that cost 300 bucks. I can't imagine how much they are now.!

$99.