Hargrove out 8 games

[Fritz]

I forgot about Lawrence "Justa" Guy.

Despite the fun nickname, my hope is that he learned something last year, sitting in on all those meetings, and that he can start to translate that learning to production on the field. If this kid could learn enough to contribute, that might be big. He has a more traditional 3-4 DE body, which seems to be something the Packers lack at the moment.

I wonder how good this kid could be? Anybody see enough or know enough to hazard a guess as to his level of talent and ability to learn?

[hoosier]

I forgot about Lawrence "Justa" Guy.

Despite the fun nickname, my hope is that he learned something last year, sitting in on all those meetings, and that he can start to translate that learning to production on the field. If this kid could learn enough to contribute, that might be big. He has a more traditional 3-4 DE body, which seems to be something the Packers lack at the moment.

I wonder how good this kid could be? Anybody see enough or know enough to hazard a guess as to his level of talent and ability to learn?

Wasn't guy (I think you can write out his name and nickname in one word) on IR all year? If that's right, I doubt very much that he had much opporunity to develop. TT should have cut him and then re-signed him to the PS.

[Pugger]

TT went & got Hargroves for 3 reason; he's cheap, he's a good vet & TT could stack a quality DL reserve 'cos injuries do happen! TT & the rest of the football world knew Hargroves had a suspension looming.

Yes, but its too bad it will be for 8 games instead of 4.

[MJZiggy]

TT went & got Hargroves for 3 reason; he's cheap, he's a good vet & TT could stack a quality DL reserve 'cos injuries do happen! TT & the rest of the football world knew Hargroves had a suspension looming.

I think there might have been a fourth reason; as insurance in case the draft didn't go as deliciously as it did and now as insurance in case any of the picks don't perform as advertised.

[mmmdk]

I think there might have been a fourth reason; as insurance in case the draft didn't go as deliciously as it did and now as insurance in case any of the picks don't perform as advertised.

I'll take "the 5th" reason from anyone!

[Bretsky]

I think that with the roster at 90 going in, it will be interesting to see if the Pack keeps Hargrove for tc. Let's see...there's Muir, Hargrove, Wynn, Wilson, Raji, Pickett, Neal, Daniels, Worthy...whom did I miss?

I wonder if they'll bring them all in, give less time to Hargrove and Neal, then during the four and eight game suspensions, use that time to evaluate the bubble guys.

I am still rooting for Mike Neal. If he can stay healthy and come back after four games to play well, that really frees Capers up to have some fun with the new dudes. I'd like to see Raji spelled more often, for example.

You have pretty low standards; I don't even count slugs like Wynn, Wilson, and maybe Muhr as well

[woodbuck27]

I forgot about Lawrence "Justa" Guy.

Despite the fun nickname, my hope is that he learned something last year, sitting in on all those meetings, and that he can start to translate that learning to production on the field. If this kid could learn enough to contribute, that might be big. He has a more traditional 3-4 DE body, which seems to be something the Packers lack at the moment.

I wonder how good this kid could be? Anybody see enough or know enough to hazard a guess as to his level of talent and ability to learn?

http://www.packers.com/team/roster/Lawrence-Guy/2f18669f-5105-414e-a4a8-1706d547c0e3

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20111021/PKR01/111021150/Green-Bay-Packers-change-plan-for-rookie-defensive-end-Lawrence-Guy-put-him-on-injured-reserve

[Patler]

Is Hargrove being punished for "being a good soldier"?

...on Thursday a lawyer hired by the NFL to provide independent analysis of the investigation said that Hargrove “he was told to lie about it and he did when he was asked about it in 2010 by the NFL investigators.”
The attorney, Mary Jo White, declined to say who told Hargrove to lie, although she said Hargrove did reveal that information to investigators.

He later came clean about the program, signing an affidavit for the league outlining the details he knew. Apparently that wasn't enough to escape being punished worse than any player but Vilma. Worse than even Smith who the league believes contributed significant sums of money (which the league says has been verified by multiple sources), who the league believes participated in administering the program, and who still today denies any involvement in it what so ever.

Should Hargrove be punished more than Smith, who apparently continues to lie about it, if he (Smith) has not been unjustly convicted? If Smith were to decide to come clean and admit to it, should he receive additional punishment for having lied? If the league has the facts correct, Smith's involvement seems greater than Hargrove's.

If Hargrove had continued in his denials, as Smith has, would Hargrove have been punished at all, or at least no more than Smith?

[pbmax]

The NFLPA is also in a bind as they turned over what is now being termed a declaration from Hargrove to the League. The League did not prepare it for Hargrove. He signed it without a notary, otherwise it would be an signed affidavit from legal counsel. He may have been thinking of later denying the declaration because its a forgery.

It almost seems like all involved parties are simply screwing up enough to be punished because there isn't any plausible excuse left.

I think the NFL has the inside track because as long as they have evidence payments were discussed (check) and payments were made (uncheck, but no outsiders have seen all the evidence yet) it can claim that a violation of the CBA occurred without having to prove anyone got hurt and without having to explain why no flags were thrown on some of the hits in question. But the interesting part is that a CBA violation might have to go to a Special Master for appeal rather than Goodell under the Player Conduct Policy.

BTW, the Williams' were able to prolong the StarCaps debacle in part because the Drug Policy has mediation/arbitration outside of Goodell's scope. And then they were able to get to the Courts.

Going to be a fun summer.

[Smidgeon]

Is Hargrove being punished for "being a good soldier"?

He later came clean about the program, signing an affidavit for the league outlining the details he knew. Apparently that wasn't enough to escape being punished worse than any player but Vilma. Worse than even Smith who the league believes contributed significant sums of money (which the league says has been verified by multiple sources), who the league believes participated in administering the program, and who still today denies any involvement in it what so ever.

Should Hargrove be punished more than Smith, who apparently continues to lie about it, if he (Smith) has not been unjustly convicted? If Smith were to decide to come clean and admit to it, should he receive additional punishment for having lied? If the league has the facts correct, Smith's involvement seems greater than Hargrove's.

If Hargrove had continued in his denials, as Smith has, would Hargrove have been punished at all, or at least no more than Smith?

That was my initial thought too...until it came out that Hargrove did that for the NFLPA and not for the NFL. Hand in the cookie jar? Caught for lying?

[Smeefers]

It's also possible that in the signed affidavits he admitted to paying people or accepting money for a big hit. If he hadn't of told the truth, he could have been suspended a full year a-la Vilma. We simply don't know and to speculate is just that, speculation. People are clamoring for the evidence, but it may be being kept out of the public eye to protect the players. If they really do go through with an appeal, I'm sure much of this will come to light. How would you play against a guy who paid someone to take out one of your team mates?

[MadScientist]

Is Hargrove being punished for "being a good soldier"?

He later came clean about the program, signing an affidavit for the league outlining the details he knew. Apparently that wasn't enough to escape being punished worse than any player but Vilma. Worse than even Smith who the league believes contributed significant sums of money (which the league says has been verified by multiple sources), who the league believes participated in administering the program, and who still today denies any involvement in it what so ever.

Should Hargrove be punished more than Smith, who apparently continues to lie about it, if he (Smith) has not been unjustly convicted? If Smith were to decide to come clean and admit to it, should he receive additional punishment for having lied? If the league has the facts correct, Smith's involvement seems greater than Hargrove's.

If Hargrove had continued in his denials, as Smith has, would Hargrove have been punished at all, or at least no more than Smith?

Had he continued in the denials, he would likely have been hit harder.

He was in a fucked position, since the team was doing something well outside the rules and he was told to lie about it, presumably by a higher up in the organization. Either he goes against the team and nobody trusts him afterwards, or he lies to the NFL and gets whacked now.

[mraynrand]

Hargrove's penalty seems just. Smith seems to be getting away with something. Perhaps he has pictures.

[Patler]

You guys seem to be missing my point.

The NFL has released fairly informative statements on the involvements of the suspended players. The major difference between their statements about Hargrove and Smith is that Hargrove lied when initial questions. Well, if they are correct in punishing Smith, he is continuing to lie to them. The NFL has pretty clearly indicated their belief that Smith contributed a lot of money to the program. The have even stated that this fact was corroborated by numerous sources. They made no such allegation against Hargrove, which I am fairly certain they would have if they have any evidence of it. The have identified numerous sources of money funding the program.

I'm not disputing Hargrove's punishment as much as I am trying to justify why he would get twice as much as Smith. I hate to say this, but I think Hargrove has been punished more severely because:

- of his actions in the "Favre is done" incident
- he has admitted to lying, while other continue do so. He has no defense to it.
- Hargrove is a "throw away" player. He is not a big name, probably is less likely or able to pose a significant individual defense, and it is easy for the league to say, "look how tough we are on this" with him rather than other big name players. Vilma's involvement made his suspension a no-brainer.

[Patler]

Hargrove's penalty seems just. Smith seems to be getting away with something. Perhaps he has pictures.

I agree with that completely. Smith should be punished at least as significantly as Hargrove, and maybe even more.