Is Packers' McCarthy the NFL's best coach?

[Patler]

I think Coughlin probably deserves the honor of top coach right now based on record. That team are amazing road warriors and nobody has done more with less than Coughlin IMO. I'm not sure what his recipe is but it certainly works.

Yet, at one time, some thought Coughlin might be one of those guys who just didn't have what it takes to be successful in the post season. Eleven years as a head coach with somewhat so-so results.

[pbmax]

McCarthy might also be the League's best wedding/proposal photographer.

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[Fritz]

I may never shed my 70's football mentality, and so I will probably always be uncomfortable with MM's run/pass ratio. But he's got a fine record and he's won a Superbowl. More recently, by the way, than Bretsky's vaunted "Hoody Genius."

I think there's a lot of pressure on MM in this "draft and develop" regime. He doesn't get much time to get rookies and first year guys ready and productive, since it's all about rolling over the roster so you don't end up with weird cap perambulations. If he had the luxury Lombardi did in terms of grooming young players, imagine what he could do.

Ah, if only players were shackled to their teams forever, like in the good ol' days...

[wist43]

I may never shed my 70's football mentality, and so I will probably always be uncomfortable with MM's run/pass ratio. But he's got a fine record and he's won a Superbowl. More recently, by the way, than Bretsky's vaunted "Hoody Genius."

I think there's a lot of pressure on MM in this "draft and develop" regime. He doesn't get much time to get rookies and first year guys ready and productive, since it's all about rolling over the roster so you don't end up with weird cap perambulations. If he had the luxury Lombardi did in terms of grooming young players, imagine what he could do.

Ah, if only players were shackled to their teams forever, like in the good ol' days...

I don't think there's much pressure to win in Green Bay right now... it seems everyone is content with having won a SB a couple of years ago, and as long as we just keep to TT's draft and develop program, all will be well - whether we win the SB or not... although I don't consider us to be a legit contender.

We'll be a perennial playoff team, and should win our division for another year or two... that's good enough for most Packer fans.

With TT living by the draft and street FA's only, the draft is our Superbowl.

[Fritz]

I don't think there's much pressure to win in Green Bay right now... it seems everyone is content with having won a SB a couple of years ago, and as long as we just keep to TT's draft and develop program, all will be well - whether we win the SB or not... although I don't consider us to be a legit contender.

We'll be a perennial playoff team, and should win our division for another year or two... that's good enough for most Packer fans.

With TT living by the draft and street FA's only, the draft is our Superbowl.

"The draft is our Superbowl" is a term used in cities like Detroit and Miami, which haven't sniffed at a SB in years and years and years. You get your team into the playoffs, and it's all a big roll of the dice from there.

Come on, Wist. Your narrative is flat out wrong. Enjoy what is one of the premier organizations in the NFL. This is a good ride, especially if you grew up in the 70's and 80's like I did and had to endure horrible GM-ing (the John Hadle trade, drafting Rich Campbell) and indifferent teams.

[pbmax]

Considering how many callers on sports talk radio are screaming for Thompson to sign somebody, I doubt all of Green Bay is happy with good enough. People are still calling for his head.

But it is true that one Super Bowl win puts a different spin on his method. The papers would be shouting from the rooftops otherwise.

[3irty1]

I may never shed my 70's football mentality, and so I will probably always be uncomfortable with MM's run/pass ratio. But he's got a fine record and he's won a Superbowl. More recently, by the way, than Bretsky's vaunted "Hoody Genius."

I think there's a lot of pressure on MM in this "draft and develop" regime. He doesn't get much time to get rookies and first year guys ready and productive, since it's all about rolling over the roster so you don't end up with weird cap perambulations. If he had the luxury Lombardi did in terms of grooming young players, imagine what he could do.

Ah, if only players were shackled to their teams forever, like in the good ol' days...

Understand why McCarthy's run/pass philosophy is what it is. The truth is that running the ball has diminishing returns for a good team, even if the running is very effective. What I mean by that is that running the ball effectively shortens the game since it keeps the clock moving. In a shorter game, the better team has less opportunities to be better... leading to upsets. This is fundamentally why running is an underdog strategy in today's NFL. In theory, to maximize our advantage of having the best QB in the league (and by far the best QB at throwing down the sidelines) we should be running the ball just enough to open up the whole playbook. Also in obvious helpful situations like to close out the end of a game with the lead.

[Zool]

Fans who call in to radio talk shows ranting, I equate to the barking dog down the street. They don't actually know why they're barking but they've been doing it so long they don't know how to stop. How many teams are legit superbowl contenders multiple years running? Are there any other than the Patriots of the early 00's? If being a playoff team year after year isn't enough, then you're not watching for the enjoyment. You're watching to have something to bitch about.

[Smeefers]

I think Wist is right. There isn't much pressure. The reason is because we keep getting to the playoffs. We're consistently a contender and won a super bowl not so long ago, so a lot of people have backed off and simply hope for the best.

I'm one of those people. I'm not worried about the team. We're probably getting back to the playoffs again this year, we'll probably win the division. Depending on how we play through the season, we might get to the super bowl. If a couple calls go our way, a couple guys don't get injured and we make a couple plays, there's a very real possibility that we could win it. When you have the tools to go deep in the playoffs, which I believe we have, that's usually all it comes down to. A play here and there.

Hell, even last year during the San Fran game, I didn't think we played so poorly that there's no reason we should have even been in the building with them. Come halftime we were tied up. Then San Fran went on a run and we could never catch up. Stuff happens, but I honestly think that we could have been the team that went on the run or at the very least, with our offense, we could have stayed even with them. I don't think their team was hand and fist better than ours. If a handful of plays had went our way instead of theirs, we could have easily been in the super bowl.

I think we have the same shot this year and who knows, those plays or calls might just go our way. No need to worry about something like that in April. I don't believe there is any move or moves we could make that would guarantee us a super bowl win.

[Fritz]

Fans who call in to radio talk shows ranting, I equate to the barking dog down the street. They don't actually know why they're barking but they've been doing it so long they don't know how to stop. How many teams are legit superbowl contenders multiple years running? Are there any other than the Patriots of the early 00's? If being a playoff team year after year isn't enough, then you're not watching for the enjoyment. You're watching to have something to bitch about.

What he said.

[wist43]

"The draft is our Superbowl" is a term used in cities like Detroit and Miami, which haven't sniffed at a SB in years and years and years. You get your team into the playoffs, and it's all a big roll of the dice from there.

Come on, Wist. Your narrative is flat out wrong. Enjoy what is one of the premier organizations in the NFL. This is a good ride, especially if you grew up in the 70's and 80's like I did and had to endure horrible GM-ing (the John Hadle trade, drafting Rich Campbell) and indifferent teams.

The playoffs can be a crapshoot to be sure - our run to the SB a few years ago atests to that. We caught fire, faced favorable matchups for our style of play, and, as Ron Wolf says... a fart in the wind.

The landscape has changed in the NFC... too many good power teams. We were the 6th seed when we won the SB, but all of the teams in front of us were flawed and/or finesse teams.

SF stomping us twice last year was not an accident. It's gonna happen again - unless we get tougher in the trenches - which I don't think is going to happen. I think we'll be better next year with Perry and Worthy coming back, and all of the young guys having a year in an NFL conditioning program.

Even with improvement however, our finesse philosophy doesn't matchup against power - SF pushed us around in the trenches on both sides of the ball - they can dominate us physically, and proved it twice... can't sidestep that.

[woodbuck27]

"The draft is our Superbowl" is a term used in cities like Detroit and Miami, which haven't sniffed at a SB in years and years and years. You get your team into the playoffs, and it's all a big roll of the dice from there.

Come on, Wist. Your narrative is flat out wrong. Enjoy what is one of the premier organizations in the NFL. This is a good ride, especially if you grew up in the 70's and 80's like I did and had to endure horrible GM-ing (the John Hadle trade, drafting Rich Campbell) and indifferent teams.

The 1970's - 80's were the equivalent to this period 'depicted below' for Packer fans:



THE DARK AGES.

[pbmax]

I think we all vastly underestimate the pressure these guys are under. This isn't the Falcons where most of the city only notices if the playoffs happen to come by. Same with Miami.

Its a step down from Pittsburgh and New York, mainly due to size. Maybe New England though that is an entirely recent development.

[Fritz]

The playoffs can be a crapshoot to be sure - our run to the SB a few years ago atests to that. We caught fire, faced favorable matchups for our style of play, and, as Ron Wolf says... a fart in the wind.

The landscape has changed in the NFC... too many good power teams. We were the 6th seed when we won the SB, but all of the teams in front of us were flawed and/or finesse teams.

SF stomping us twice last year was not an accident. It's gonna happen again - unless we get tougher in the trenches - which I don't think is going to happen. I think we'll be better next year with Perry and Worthy coming back, and all of the young guys having a year in an NFL conditioning program.

Even with improvement however, our finesse philosophy doesn't matchup against power - SF pushed us around in the trenches on both sides of the ball - they can dominate us physically, and proved it twice... can't sidestep that.

So we were somehow lucky that year, is what I read you as saying. You're discounting that Super Bowl, and you're sure that luck will not happen again because
SF is too tough, too physical for a pink-skirted team like Green Bay, which deliberately chooses to play pussyball.

Look, Wist, you can see it any way you want, but it seems clear you're never going to be happy, ever. Green Bay acheived the greatest prize in the NFL three years ago, but you think it was somehow luck and so doesn't quite count. You admire SF as more manly and better, but they haven't won a SB in many years, though they did go last year.

Sure it looks good for them, and I agree they are more physical than the Pack. But the Bears reputedly are too, as are the Giants, and neither of them got very far last year. I would like you like to see the team get more physical. I don't disagree. But I don't discount the quality of this team nor its chances as you seem to.

Watching that playoff loss was hard. The defense was awful that day - all of 'em, even Matthews. I want this year's team to be a little tougher. They could use a Wayne Simmons or two, for sure. But I'm not going to bemoan this team's chances, either. I really do think it's about, in part, catching fire and believing completely and playing out of your head when the playoffs roll around. But that's impossible to bottle up, which is partly why the playoffs are so fascinating.

[woodbuck27]

So we were somehow lucky that year, is what I read you as saying. You're discounting that Super Bowl, and you're sure that luck will not happen again because
SF is too tough, too physical for a pink-skirted team like Green Bay, which deliberately chooses to play pussyball.

Look, Wist, you can see it any way you want, but it seems clear you're never going to be happy, ever. Green Bay acheived the greatest prize in the NFL three years ago, but you think it was somehow luck and so doesn't quite count. You admire SF as more manly and better, but they haven't won a SB in many years, though they did go last year.

Sure it looks good for them, and I agree they are more physical than the Pack. But the Bears reputedly are too, as are the Giants, and neither of them got very far last year. I would like you like to see the team get more physical. I don't disagree. But I don't discount the quality of this team nor its chances as you seem to.

Watching that playoff loss was hard. The defense was awful that day - all of 'em, even Matthews. I want this year's team to be a little tougher. They could use a Wayne Simmons or two, for sure. But I'm not going to bemoan this team's chances, either. I really do think it's about, in part, catching fire and believing completely and playing out of your head when the playoffs roll around. But that's impossible to bottle up, which is partly why the playoffs are so fascinating.

Again... I looked at that exit point in the playoff's 'Green bay Packers at San Fran 49ers', few days ago.

If Jeremy Ross doesn't blow it? Poor lad! What might have changed in terms of us and momentum?

Even as that went; we went into the dressing room tied at halftime. In that first half.

Our best players were guys like DuJuan Harris, James Jones and Sam Shields. Clay Matthews was up and down but he had to face a gritty LT inspite of him not being 100%. Aaron Rodgers hit Greg Jennings early and then for the longest time he was forgotten. Why?

Sure Crabtree, Gore and Kaepernick looked good. You cannot take that away from the 49ers. Our 'D' helped them to that.

I saw it on the negative side... another way. We went flat in the second half.

The Packers ran out of gas. It was like there was a virus on that roster. Aaron Rodgers was certainly not 100% or under the weather. He simply couldn't get into any groove in that game. He was forever getting game time early in that game and he got restless. Aaron Rodgers is a very intense man. Yet got in there and us squared up. All the same, Aaron Rodgers never looked comfortable in that game.

Having posted that I have to add this.

On that day the Green Bay Packer were facing a very solid San Francisco 49ers team. That team 'will be' tougher this season. So will the Seattle Seahawks. So will the Atlanta Falcons.

Ted Thompson needs a killer draft. We need alot of breaks this season in the adversity Dept. to be serious contenders. The Green Bay Packers have to work their tails off. Aaron Rodgers 'again' must be the NFL MVP.

Give us all that and then 'maybe'... 'just maybe' we win the Super Bowl.

The point is this. The same goes for any serious contending team in the NFL.

So many things have to go just right for any team to be crowned Super Bowl Champions.

Will we be forgotten or mentioned as a maybe? I believe it will be the latter.

GO PACK GO !