The Official Gameweek Discussion thread: 2013 Season Opener: Packers v 49ers

[pbmax]

That is a difficult read. Lots of insider terminology and jargon. I think i need a Tylenol

Yeah, I started getting lost after inside and outside shoulder diagrams looked exactly alike. Also, the read and veer options they are diagramming are not exactly what the 49ers ran.

[wist43]

Aranda is saying specifically NOT to target the QB, but to muddy the waters to get back the 4 on 4 matchup. Exotic pressures give the advantage to the QB. Give him no clean reads. 2 gap across the board. That's what I read.

I agree with the no clean reads. I like having Matthews set up inside more - esp if the OLBs play off more and read. Will be interesting to see how often Perry and Neal are at OLB with Matthews inside, if at all.

Yes, that's what he said - and I don't agree with that.

I want to bloody Kapnerfucker up from the first snap. If you control the LOS with your down lineman (which Aranda did say to do), you can send Matthews or Perry right after Kapnerfucker, and smack him in the mouth every play - eventually, it'll get in his head and wear him down.

Mr. Holdingintheendzone will send in a pistol call, and Kapnercoward will call another play in the huddle - tired of getting smacked around.

Q: who ya gonna have 2-gapping?? You gonna scrap the 2-4 on 3rd and 8??

As I said, you can say Jolly and Pickett can 2-gap, but that's it - and what are the odds that they will be on the field together very much?? and, we all know Capers will be in a 2-4 on 3rd and 8 - and he absolutely won't have 4 DL on the field at the same time. See the problem with translating Aranda's remedy to our personnel and what Capers is likely to do??

The results we will be evaluating come Monday can't possibly be as bad as the 579 turd Capers laid 8 months ago, but I seriously doubt he will make the changes necessary to slow the Niners down much. Capers is who he is... a leopard doesn't change his spots.

Capers believes coverage trumps run defense and pressure every time - it will be a mighty internal struggle for him to come off of that core belief.

He can't possibly be as inept as he was 8 months ago, but I suspect we're in for another ass-whoopin on Sunday. They stomped us last year - twice, and the only upgrade we've got coming in is D. Jones.

Kapnermoron won't run for another 181, but we're still undermanned up front - at least the way Mr. Spraypaintedhair approaches front six play.

[mraynrand]

Yes, that's what he said - and I don't agree with that.

I want to bloody Kapup from the first snap. If you control the LOS with your down lineman (which Aranda did say to do), you can send Matthews or Perry right after Kap and smack him in the mouth every play - eventually, it'll get in his head and wear him down.

This seems overly simplistic. You want to rush both OLBs on every play? I would think a high school QB could dissect that, and the RO will destroy it.

Capers is not an incompetent. See for example his defense of Vick in 2010 playoffs (note that Vick came into the reg season game after Kolb got concussed and lit the Packers up). Capers adjusted and mixed up the pressure (recall sending Bishop on first play). That was a pretty high powered offense (though slightly handicapped with injury to #10. Kap is better than Vick and SF O-line is superior to Philly. Have to recognize that SF has too many options for GB to play some kind of predictable vanilla bob defense. Also recall that Clay got controlled in the playoffs.


BTW, Rush Limbaugh is talking about Clay, Kap, the RO, NFL safety rules and the comments by Clay and Hairball!

[mraynrand]

As I said, you can say Jolly and Pickett can 2-gap, but that's it - and what are the odds that they will be on the field together very much?? and, we all know Capers will be in a 2-4 on 3rd and 8 - and he absolutely won't have 4 DL on the field at the same time. See the problem with translating Aranda's remedy to our personnel and what Capers is likely to do??.

That's the interesting point. I think Wilson can 2-gap, but I think Capers will do something different, like bring Matthews from different positions, while Perry and perhaps Neal secure the edge. In other words, you may only need one or two DL 2-gapping, if you have matthews shooting another gap

[mraynrand]

In the first half the Ravens were sending a safety down on every read option play into the alley of that play. In a position to force on a give but free enough to pursue the QB wide. You should be able to pass on such an alignment and CK missed a couple of opportunities early. But they took full advantage in the 2nd Half.

I don't think the Packers crashed as hard towards CK necessarily, but Walden was scraping inside to squeeze the give (he did not get off these blocks well enough) but help to the outside was late in coming. Specifically, the 56 yard TD, Jones got fascinated by the give, hesitated, and whether CK saw this or not, left the entire wide right side (offense) open.

The way the 49ers double teamed Raji, it was really a 3 on 2 play. QB, RB, blocking FB going against an ILB and an OLB. Aranda's advice would apply here. If you are going to run that alignment, you must NOT charge into the backfield. You need the uncertainty to allow the safety and CB to get over to help. That makes the matchup 3 on 3.

perfect summary.

in general, you really need patience and discipline. I think back to the play where Kap threw the short toss to Gore, with Woodson in coverage. Woodson left Gore for Kap too soon and gave up a huge play. Better to play off and be able to stop Gore for a 5-10 yard completion or maybe even less yards if Kap keeps it. That play reminded me of the abysmal start to the wildcard game against MN in 2004. Gotta be disciplined, gotta contain first with a dynamic player like Kap and that offense.

[Zool]

That's the interesting point. I think Wilson can 2-gap, but I think Capers will do something different, like bring Matthews from different positions, while Perry and perhaps Neal secure the edge. In other words, you may only need one or two DL 2-gapping, if you have matthews shooting another gap

I think they made Neal a OLB so that they can a sort of run a 4-3 with him and Perry as the ends and CM3 going where ever he chooses on a play. Can overload and have one of Perry/Neal drop into a zone.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Classic two gap D-lineman.

[mraynrand]

Classic two gap D-lineman.

LOL. That would be even better if the teeth were really missing, not just photoshopped out.

[pittstang5]

Question

Was Neal, Perry and Mathews on the field at the same time at any point during the preseason. I only remember seeing Mathews and Perry, then Perry and Neal at OLB. Heck, I don't even remember Neal playing DE much, if at all.

[bobblehead]

But that is precisely WHY it works now in the pros. Aranda and Capers refer to it in the article I linked to above. At least since Lawrence Taylor and often well before that, ends in the pros have been asked to get upfield and put pressure on the QB. The read option, if an end gives the QB that quick of a read, will devastate the defense because that end has vacated one of two gaps and the O line is double teaming the only guy (DT) who could squeeze the interior one. Its 4 on 3 if the end gives you a quick read.

Unlike a traditional belly option (or triple option) you don't get to have your DT and DE play one assignment each versus the option.

Your DE is ignored and your DT is double teamed. You need time to get a linebacker into the area and bring a safety down the alley. Not to mention having the CB read to stop pitch/wide QB run.

Yes, it helps the run game. Its not a coincidence that Willis McGehee looked young again when Tebow took over at QB 2 years ago. But running isn't important anyway. Its a passers league I keep being told. Its not a big deal, so force the damn handoff Walden and give up 6 yards so long as Kapernick isn't scampering 80 yards around the outside to a TD.

If your QB is a very good passer the RO is a big help, however, I don't think any of the RO QB's are good enough passers at this point to worry about. Give up the extra yardage in the run game, wait for the impatience to set in and win the game. Obviously if you can get really good with safety support and LB play to stuff the run cold in the RO, thats a bonus.

[mraynrand]

Yes, it helps the run game. Its not a coincidence that Willis McGehee looked young again when Tebow took over at QB 2 years ago. But running isn't important anyway. Its a passers league I keep being told. Its not a big deal, so force the damn handoff Walden and give up 6 yards so long as Kapernick isn't scampering 80 yards around the outside to a TD.

If your QB is a very good passer the RO is a big help, however, I don't think any of the RO QB's are good enough passers at this point to worry about. Give up the extra yardage in the run game, wait for the impatience to set in and win the game. Obviously if you can get really good with safety support and LB play to stuff the run cold in the RO, thats a bonus.

Just a minor quibble about McGahee. He got 2.5 times the yards of the previous year because he got 2.5 times the carries. he got more carries because Tebow really can't run an NFL style passing offense. McGahee's average with Bal in 2009 was slightly better than 2011. When Peyton Manning rolled into town, McGahee's yards dropped off dramatically and his av slumped back to about his career average. I assume the read option helps the run game, but in the case of McGahee, his improved numbers came because they fed him the ball a hell of a lot more, not because the RO was such a threat (with Tebow it was largely a double threat, with Kap it is a triple threat)

[Fritz]

In the first half the Ravens were sending a safety down on every read option play into the alley of that play. In a position to force on a give but free enough to pursue the QB wide. You should be able to pass on such an alignment and CK missed a couple of opportunities early. But they took full advantage in the 2nd Half.

I don't think the Packers crashed as hard towards CK necessarily, but Walden was scraping inside to squeeze the give (he did not get off these blocks well enough) but help to the outside was late in coming. Specifically, the 56 yard TD, Jones got fascinated by the give, hesitated, and whether CK saw this or not, left the entire wide right side (offense) open.

The way the 49ers double teamed Raji, it was really a 3 on 2 play. QB, RB, blocking FB going against an ILB and an OLB. Aranda's advice would apply here. If you are going to run that alignment, you must NOT charge into the backfield. You need the uncertainty to allow the safety and CB to get over to help. That makes the matchup 3 on 3.

This need to contain and not attack must be difficult for NFL defenders, who tend to be, by nature, aggressive - and have been taught to be aggressive. Now you're asking these guys to contain and manage. Not easy.

The second issue is that by not attacking, the defense is allowing the QB more time to pass. This puts a lot of pressure on the defensive backs.

No wonder it's been hard to defend.

[KYPack]

That's the interesting point. I think Wilson can 2-gap, but I think Capers will do something different, like bring Matthews from different positions, while Perry and perhaps Neal secure the edge. In other words, you may only need one or two DL 2-gapping, if you have matthews shooting another gap

Nah, Rand. Wilson can't two gap. We have two DL that can two gap. Ryan Pickett and Jolly. The latter could two gap a dumptruck. This game I think you will see CMIII in coverage a lot more than people think.

I'd like to get me a time machine and go back to the 3rd quarter of that ball game last season. We had the lead. Get a safety to stay in position like Wood wasn't doing. And get a OLB to read and react properly like Walden had no clue & take Hairball's crew on. Wood and Walden hosed us big time in that game and if they'd have read their keys and played their reads, we'd have been a helluva a lot better off.

I think Jolly and his playmates will give us better coverage inside against the dive. Perry's lack of mobility at OLB MAY work in our favor. When they run the RO to the right, they don't really block the OLB. They option him. I'm hopin' Perry is better at playing the option than he is rushing the passer.

So, we stop the dive, populate K's running lanes, & cover his receivers, no 579, mebbe.

Trying to hit Super K every play is a flawed strategy. Even Stubbs didn't try to do that one. One thing I would like to see is nail K every time he runs that fake boot after the dive. Stubbs did that in the SB. Kap dropped that boot fake like a hot rock.

What did the Ravens do that we didn't when we played SF? Baltimore played Haloti Ngata. You guys seem to want all these two gappers, Ngata could two gap an ICBM. When he went out with the leg injury, SF got back in the ball game.

We need Johnny Jolly to be our Ngata.

Then we'll take 'em on, dern it!

[Fritz]

Then I hope ol' Johnny's in game shape; he could get a lot of snaps!

[pbmax]

I think they made Neal a OLB so that they can a sort of run a 4-3 with him and Perry as the ends and CM3 going where ever he chooses on a play. Can overload and have one of Perry/Neal drop into a zone.

I think this is the most obvious thing to do with Neal. I wonder if an ILB or DB comes out though. Perry and Neal are big enough to stand up to a run play. Clay in coverage would be dicey since he would have S assignments.

But if they took Hawk out and played Matthews strong side, could be interesting.

And again let me restate what control the LOS people refuse to acknowledge. On Kapernick's touchdown, Raji and Pickett got double teamed and Wilson and Matthews were backside. None of them was within five yards of the ball at any time.

Now that is not to say the D line did not have breakdowns. But those game changing plays plus his scrambles were not control the LOS issues. Ready to be proven wrong yet again, its speed, position and assignments more than beef at issue here.