Bad locker room in Miami?

[denverYooper]

What we have here is a failure, to communicate.

Sources: Ireland suggested that Martin confront Incognito physically

Jeff Ireland, in a conversation with Martin's agent proposed that Martin confront Incognito, this would be prior to his departure last month. Punch him, is what the advice was.

So, was Incognito clueless enough to think Martin saw him as a friend? Was Martin friendless enough that prominent teammates could mistake the relationship for a friendship?


You know all the talk and work Rodgers puts into getting to know the players so he can effectively lead and communicate with them? He should get a raise.

Seeing some more piling on Ireland today:

Tom Pelissero @TomPelissero 7m
It probably was just a matter of time before Martin's camp targeted Jeff Ireland. He is to say the least not well-liked in agent community.

Sage Rosenfels @SageRosenfels18 20m
I played for 5 teams and 9 GMs and Ireland is the only 1 I had a problem with. I was also traded 3 times and cut twice. Yes, I was average.

[pbmax]

Not unique to Miami: Here is the Bear's Hunter Hillenmeyer on Olin Kruetz

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/07/hillenmeyer-hated-coming-in-to-work-because-of-kruetz/

[pbmax]

Here's one that surprisingly involves KGB and Kyle Turley. Not as specific as others, but Turley seems to confirm the suggestion by Murtha that coaches would ask Incognito to whip Martin into shape.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-farmer-turley-incognito-20131107,0,4724400.column#axzz2jyYnPnUg

[pbmax]

Perhaps the reason NFL teams do not want someone thought of as soft or sensitive is that they have no effective means of working with them otherwise. From the Turley article above:

Turley said he has spoken to people with knowledge of the situation in Miami — including a brief exchange with Incognito using direct messages on Twitter — and believes that Incognito's gruff approach coupled with Martin's fragile psyche created "a recipe for disaster."

"What everybody else in the locker room considers just football, obviously [Martin] was completely the opposite and very sensitive to what was going on and didn't buy into that," Turley said. "When you've got a guy like Richie, who's been enlisted as your leader to motivate these guys, to get them in shape, get them in check, personally, I feel like the Dolphins kind of set them up.

"They set Jonathan Martin up for failure, and they set Richie Incognito up for failure."

[Pugger]

They might bring him back to get someone to toughen up Sherrod.

A guy who can come back from that horrendous injury isn't one who's toughness should be questioned.

[Pugger]

It looks to me like Incognito has serious issues that might indeed call for some help in the realm of proper mental health.

Translation ... He might need to have his head checked out.

And this isn't the first time Incognito made himself unwelcome in a locker room.

[Pugger]

I am playing devils advocate to a point. I however have no sympathy for a man that gets bullied that does nothing but cry to his parents. You are an adult, talk to the position coach, talk to the OC, talk to the HC, talk to other players you can't tell me that he had no friends on the team or around the league, talk to the GM. I am not saying he has to fight Incognito because that dude sounds like a brawler and could kick some ass but you also can't be a person that allows this to happen.

Now if he did do all that I said then I do have some sympathy if he is just an elite athlete smart nerd that cant make friends and has never stood up for himself.

From what I understand Martin did go to the GM who told him to punch Incognito in the nose. MM won't tolerate this kind of behavior so I find it incredible Philbin didn't know what was going on. If he didn't he doesn't have control of that locker room and this might be why this situation got to a point where Martin felt the only recourse he had was to leave and then the whole world would see the crap going on.

[Tony Oday]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/former-dolphins-lineman-lydon-murtha-explains-jonathan-martin-165157389--nfl.html

Just another person in support of an evil bigot that picked on "Big Weirdo"

[Tony Oday]

Is this trophy business a real thing? I mean, my kids are just starting out in sports and all but no one handed my daughter a trophy for coming in last in her first running race.

did she get a medal? That is what my son gets for just about everything, got a trophy last year in baseball where they didn't keep score. His response, "Dad this is cool but how much cooler will it be when I actually earn it?!" Yes my son you are doing it right.

[NewsBruin]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...7389--nfl.html

Just another person in support of an evil bigot that picked on "Big Weirdo"

This refers to the MMQB link that Patler posted earlier, and I think of any single source, it's the most helpful.

Martin's side got to the media first, and was able to frame this story with true, but selective details. I'm sticking by my assessment that he didn't have the social/emotional skills to handle the Dolphins' lockerroom, even if by account he was all aces at Stanford. Hell, in a guy's mid-twenties, I think it's a miracle if he does have his stuff together.

We see hurting people, and empathetically, we want to help them or stick up for them. I mentioned my past being bullied and mentioned that I didn't know how to stand up for myself (which isn't the same as dropping gloves with a bully) or how to believe in my worth in the absence of external approval. I'm kinda pleased that I was right on this one, but I'm biased to my experiences.

The more details that come out, the more human everyone seems. Even the nimrod GM (unfortunately a Baylor Bear) reminds me of the principals and gym teachers who shrugged and told me to fight back.

I think this will end like Hamlet. Everyone loses in the end.

One thing that we gotta give Lombardi credit for is that for all his hard-ass reputation, he knew what buttons to press on each player. I think it was Maraniss' book that mentions him berating Horning while privately criticizing McGee (I think) and telling the team no abuse was tolerated on one closeted player.

I don't have a great bow to wrap this all up in, but the more nuance we see, the more we can use this to tell folks how to handle conflicts and anxiety without reducing it to knee-jerk rules and intelligence-insulting, unrealistic skits.

(Of course, expect this to lead to knee-jerk rules and intelligence-insulting skits.)

[bobblehead]

Martin's side got to the media first, and was able to frame this story with true, but selective details.

Did you actually read it? It clearly says that Martin hasn't said anything at all yet. The only thing his side did was release a voicemail to the media. Yes, that is a selective detail, but its the only response in any way Martin has given so far.

He may have told Big Dick that it had nothing to do with him, but that is also a good way of saying "I am not having this conversation with you asshole, and this is the best way to stop you from bothering me."

I had this king kong jack off of a boss once at a financial firm not to be named. I knew he wasn't going anywhere so I positioned myself to leave and when he asked me why I didn't feel like talking to him so I said "just time for a change." I could have said "because you are a fucking assmunch and I don't want to work with you or for you for ten more minutes." That however would have lead to him acting stunned, asking for explanations and engaging in conversations that weren't worth my time (he wasn't changing and I wasn't staying). Like Martin, I simply tipped the fuck out the door.

[NewsBruin]

Did you actually read it? It clearly says that Martin hasn't said anything at all yet. The only thing his side did was release a voicemail to the media. Yes, that is a selective detail, but its the only response in any way Martin has given so far.

He may have told Big Dick that it had nothing to do with him, but that is also a good way of saying "I am not having this conversation with you asshole, and this is the best way to stop you from bothering me."

See, I was thinking about the details that were described when this story first came out. Initially, it was "Martin didn't return after an incident in the cafeteria." That was a straight-up report that could have come from anyone.

The next details that came out were the standing-up-and-walking-off description and then the background that Incognito had asked him for $15,000 for an offseason Vegas trip that Martin didn't go on. We were all left to draw our own conclusions. Only the offensive line would have known about the trip, and (unless you can name me a more likely source) only someone associated with Martin would have mentioned that snippet in relation to Martin's absence from the team. Also, any other offensive lineman would have said that the walkout prank had been pulled before on other linemen (if those unattributed reports are true).

In addition, those background details came out around the same time as the updates to Martin's location (checked into hospital for emotional stress, now in Cali). The initial info seems very favorable to Martin's side of things and very plugged in to his whereabouts.

It took until Tuesday for the o-line to violate the gag order, Incognito's been a Twitter laureate, the Dolphin office staff has only said enough to CYA, and Martin's been incommunicado. I'm not sure whom else would have put out the details. I surmise that the local press found out about the walkout and the rest has been backed by Martin's side. Not that they're wrong to do that (nor do I know how much they knew about the trip), but the full picture's taken a while to develop.

[denverYooper]

It took until Tuesday for the o-line to violate the gag order, Incognito's been a Twitter laureate, the Dolphin office staff has only said enough to CYA, and Martin's been incommunicado. I'm not sure whom else would have put out the details. I surmise that the local press found out about the walkout and the rest has been backed by Martin's side. Not that they're wrong to do that (nor do I know how much they knew about the trip), but the full picture's taken a while to develop.

One thing's for sure, Martin has killer representation: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...nathan-martin/

[Joemailman]

One thing's for sure, Martin has killer representation: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...nathan-martin/

The attorney's statement does bring up an issue I'd been thinking about. Statements have been made by Dolphin players that Martin and Incognito seemed to be friends. Did Martin try to befriend Incognito in the hope that that would make the harassment stop? Just speculating here, but it's possible.

[Patler]

The attorney's statement does bring up an issue I'd been thinking about. Statements have been made by Dolphin players that Martin and Incognito seemed to be friends. Did Martin try to befriend Incognito in the hope that that would make the harassment stop? Just speculating here, but it's possible.

Perhaps even likely.