TED THOMPSON---WORTHY OF CRITICISM ???????????????????????????

[Bretsky]

Everyone's shorts are in a bunch because either:

1) Flynn should have been signed earlier

2) A near-certain number 2 should have been in camp at the end of July, not Coleman and Harrell.

But really, the specifics reasons don't matter as most of the crowd who now want to know why Flynn wasn't signed earlier were calling for him to be replaced by Tolzien at halftime of the Falcons game. The only solution or reasoning that would satisfy them would either be Rodgers not getting hurt or spending more money on a backup QB.

They only see the risk, not the payoff of being young and cheap back there. Rest assured, if money was spent to bring in Hasselback, we would have wailing that there is no money to sign core Packer FAs.

I'm on record...multiple times, in saying in was a HUGE error by MM to start Tolzien over Flynn against Minnesota. Started a thread the week before suggesting that.

That cost us IMO the game and that is on the Packers staff.

Didn't call for Hasselbeck; in fact if I was polled earlier this year I would have been in the who really cares who are backup is because odds are Rodgers won't get hurt again.

But IMO MM reacted poorly after it happened. Tolzien to me never stood out in College. He ws smart and he needed several years to absolutely master the offense before being above average. The same IMO would hold true in Green Bay.

I didn't want to see him on Game Day until next year. He needs that mastery to have a chance. He was never the guy.....ever.

[Bretsky]

He has failed to secure a starting job with the Packers, the Seahawks, the Raiders and the Bills. He has started so few games that his record doesn't make much of a dent in that fact, but he is 2-3 in his starts. His career passer rating is 87.4. Its 81.4 this year in Green Bay.

He is so well thought of by the Packer staff that they avoided signing him twice before bringing him in when Wallace was hurt and they were down to one healthy QB.

It is sometimes said that there are not really 32 starting quality QBs in the League. He is 33rd or perhaps lower.

As I said he is a bad starter, but OK for a backup.

Agree with you here; call a spade a spade. Matt Flynn is an avergage backup. He'd probably win 40% of our games with this team. It's hard for me to say he failed to be a starter in Green Bay or Seattle though. He had no chance to beat our studs like AROD or Russell. Then in Oakland their OL was absolute junk, and he never had a lenghty shot in Buffalo as they have their guy.

With that being said, he's a middle of the road backup QB who may have a roached shoulder. We need AROD back or our playaoff dreams....and yes this year might be a dream....will be done in a hurry

[pbmax]

I'm on record...multiple times, in saying in was a HUGE error by MM to start Tolzien over Flynn against Minnesota. Started a thread the week before suggesting that.

That cost us IMO the game and that is on the Packers staff.

Didn't call for Hasselbeck; in fact if I was polled earlier this year I would have been in the who really cares who are backup is because odds are Rodgers won't get hurt again.

But IMO MM reacted poorly after it happened. Tolzien to me never stood out in College. He ws smart and he needed several years to absolutely master the offense before being above average. The same IMO would hold true in Green Bay.

I didn't want to see him on Game Day until next year. He needs that mastery to have a chance. He was never the guy.....ever.

I think part of his success is the fact that he was unscouted versus Minny. In fact, both Tolzien's appearance and Flynn's (not so much Wallace's relief appearance) were testaments to surprising the opponents.

I do agree that starting Flynn with no prep might have produced a better effort the following week. He gets the practice reps and moves his acclimation ahead a week.

Cowboys aren't going to be a great test of Flynn, though it will be on the road. Flynn will not meet the equivalent of Detroit's defense on the road until Chicago and that defense would need to be playing better to match the effectiveness of the Lions T-Day effort.

[run pMc]

I can't say how he is as a starter. He hasn't had enough sample size to be sure. I think he could be a bottom 1/3 starter in this league. Lead a solid team to 10-6. I think he would lead a team to a record that resembled the talent. If he were to be starter in GB for an entire season I think 10-6 or 11-5 would be likely. I don't think they avoided bringing him in because of him, as much as 1) his salary and 2) not changing from tolzien too fast. When he cleared waivers and wallace was hurt we brought him in.

If he had been available at the beginning of the season at league minimum I think he would have been the backup then.

Flynn is a decent backup QB, but not a good starter QB. If everyone one O and D were healthy and he was the starting QB, I think this team would struggle to do better than 8-8. IMO he'd need a top 5 defense and solid ST (or a LOT of luck) to make noise the playoffs. A step up from Ponder, but he's no Russell Wilson. Maybe on par with Josh McCown, but without the benefit of a full offseason with the team.

Agree they didn't sign him earlier because he needed to clear waivers or else GB would've been on the hook for his salary. I don't have issues with TT waiting for him to clear, especially if that cap money goes to sign Shields or JJ.

[run pMc]

Cowboys aren't going to be a great test of Flynn, though it will be on the road. Flynn will not meet the equivalent of Detroit's defense on the road until Chicago and that defense would need to be playing better to match the effectiveness of the Lions T-Day effort.

Cowboys are a much better team at home, and they are playing to catch up with PHI. Is Flynn a Texas kid? I think it's a toss-up...Dallas' D didn't look very good. Will Lacy play? This would be a good game for Starks and one of the WR's to step up and the defense to play like they did vs. ATL 2nd half.

[ThunderDan]

Agree with you here; call a spade a spade. Matt Flynn is an avergage backup. He'd probably win 40% of our games with this team. It's hard for me to say he failed to be a starter in Green Bay or Seattle though. He had no chance to beat our studs like AROD or Russell. Then in Oakland their OL was absolute junk, and he never had a lenghty shot in Buffalo as they have their guy.

With that being said, he's a middle of the road backup QB who may have a roached shoulder. We need AROD back or our playaoff dreams....and yes this year might be a dream....will be done in a hurry

Go to call you out on the SEA comment.

Flynn was paid "good" starter money to go to SEA and be their starting QB. Wilson wasn't on the team when Flynn signed. Wilson "fell" to SEA and Wilson beat Flynn out in camp. Flynn was given every opportunity to win the starting position.

[ThunderDan]

The defense played well in Atlanta. Look, blaming TT for lack of an all pro back up QB is comical. Its reaching. Its desperate. Its sort of like the democrats blaming the GOP for not fixing THEIR healthcare law.

COME ON, KEEP THE POLITICAL SHIT IN FYI!!!!

THAT'S IS WHAT IT IS FOR!!!

[Cleft Crusty]

. Flynn will not meet the equivalent of Detroit's defense on the road until Chicago and that defense would need to be playing better to match the effectiveness of the Lions T-Day effort.

Have you been sniffing glue? Chicago's defense is nowhere near as good as Detroit's. Although, there is some truth in what you suggest in that Detroit's effectiveness depends a lot on whether they decide to actually play or not. Chicago has virtually nothing on Defense. Peppers takes off 2 of every three plays, McGuffin is a horrible as an end, and their secondary is awful. LBs are marginal without Briggs, and are only average with him.

Packers defense will get eaten alive by the current Chicago offense that is on an absolute roll, unless of course Cutler comes back and ruins the whole thing.

[pbmax]

Have you been sniffing glue? Chicago's defense is nowhere near as good as Detroit's. Although, there is some truth in what you suggest in that Detroit's effectiveness depends a lot on whether they decide to actually play or not. Chicago has virtually nothing on Defense. Peppers takes off 2 of every three plays, McGuffin is a horrible as an end, and their secondary is awful. LBs are marginal without Briggs, and are only average with him.

Packers defense will get eaten alive by the current Chicago offense that is on an absolute roll, unless of course Cutler comes back and ruins the whole thing.

Hey let's leave my personal life out of this.

I meant only to suggest that the Bears D is less than the Lions NOW. I know Briggs is not back yet but am unsure about Tillman or others so I feel unqualified to say for certain. Peppers always seems to get up for the Packers.

And the Bears are the only capable D left on the road schedule. Pittsburgh is both a shell of itself and at Lambeau.

[Cleft Crusty]

Hey let's leave my personal life out of this.

I meant only to suggest that the Bears D is less than the Lions NOW. I know Briggs is not back yet but am unsure about Tillman or others so I feel unqualified to say for certain. Peppers always seems to get up for the Packers.

And the Bears are the only capable D left on the road schedule. Pittsburgh is both a shell of itself and at Lambeau.

OK, OK, so maybe it was only Elmer's School Glue.

[woodbuck27]

When TT came he drafted football players until he rebuilt the roster mostly. Now he is gambling more on hitting a homerun on a talent. I prefer the first method as you can improve ones physical skills easier than attitude/instinct. I wish he would get back to drafting football players.

Wow..this is a long post...make a sandwich. Grab a beer.

I'm just now reviewing this thread and will respond to this and maybe? I already have... yet here goes:

TT has as a main approach to draft the life blood for the team and develop that over 2-4 years time.

It's clear the Green Bay Packers as a team isn't as strong as we may have imagined RE:

(a) The loss of Aaron Rodgers to injury as one very heavily weighted factor (see backup QB's >>> see backup @ Center and disruption to the OL in terms of OL depth. IMO the OL was thin in terms of both roster spots and talent/depth (See Marshall Newhouse) from the outset of this season.

and/or

(b) the accumulative effect of the adversity we've seen the team have to try to absorb this season or the loss of AR, Bryan Bulaga, Randall Cobb, Casey Hayward, and the cumulative effect added to that in terms of all the games lost to injury and others like CM III and Sam Shields, Nick Perry and James Jones etc.

You prefer that TT draft pure football players. ie ?? Lunch pail style Pro's that just get it done week in and out. ??

I agree with you as there are so few CM III's available on a 'We sure hit that one right and believed we would'. That's far from the anology in retrospect of 'the Draft is simply a crap shoot'.

I've studied Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy fairly closely. I've had to decide to give both of then all the respect they deserve and not simply exercise an option of being 'a constant boo bird' and those guys. I know that 'the TRUTH' is always reached. I believe first in the health of the team in terms of any real chance to be competitive with the best in the NFL.

My concerns are real:

a) The team 'only' has so much of an open window to win another Super Bowl with a GREAT QB or Aaron Rodgers.

b) With a 100% Aaron Rodgers the Packers won't win that Super Bowl with the team's defense we see now or with a DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATING of YES GET THIS: 31st

C) If the teams defense is ranked where it is at present and that's shockingly bad. The ST's effort better rank right up there and 'in fact' the Packers are a worst in the NFCN division 21st Ranking on ST's.

The question we must then ask ourselves is why is it that way? Why?:

I) If it's coaching and scheme? Then TT and MM must make a big change in the team's coaching in this off season. That decision must be made one to three weeks ago. Certainly not the day after the season ends. Why? The loss of Aaron Rodgers has certainly exposed the quality of the team and the success of TT and MM and his coaching staff to work with what TT supplies them.

Clearly the Packers roster needs a lot more and at most positions. That doesn't get done on any basis of .... soon.

II ) If it's roster personnel then TT and MM must cut a load of deadwood this off season and re-build where necessary with an objective to building back momentum in maybe two more years's time.

I believe that the Green Bay Packers have realistically shifted into a new gear. Their in the time to weigh it all mode... and everyone is playing for their job. If I'm wrong I shouldn't be.

Last weekend the Green Bay Packers and Packer Coach's and (even Ted Thompson) received *** BOO's from Packer fans at Lambeau Field.

Mike McCarthy ( the Ohh so naïve one !?) acted as if he was surprized. He was surprized !?? *** Why was Mike McCarthy surprized?

Is MM really that out of touch or has he that big of ego to not realize where his team was at the end of the first half Vs Atlanta?

It was certainly hit the 'all systems go' button... Mike.

The Packer team and MM and TT all certainly deserved those BOO's. I'm not a fan that could possibly BOO my team. Normally that is boorish and makes little sense but not last Sunday. If the Packer team and MM and TT ever received a wake up call it came in the form of those BOO's.

Fans are not going to HOO HUM a 1-3-1 record and in the next game be able to suck up the stinking performance from the Packers in the first half of that Atlanta game. The BOO's said clearly:

The Fans have had enough. The Packer fan wants to win...again...now and isn't going to excuse the 'no Aaron Rodgers excuse'. Especially against a team ranked as low as the Atlanta Falcons. Enough was in effect and ... just that ....or enough. The Green Bay Packer fans were at Lambeau Field to cheer the Aaron Rodgers deprived Green Bay Packers Vs the Atlanta Falcons (a warm weather team) that came within a wisker of driving a steak into the Packers collective ass's.

Did that team or MM and his coach's understand all that was in stake in that game? Down what? 21-10 at the half and having just made an (arguably) senseless offensive call that hobbled his RB. MM cannot understand or is surprized at the BOO"s.

That takes the cake and that HC.

Does he understand that the window for the Green Bay Packers and Aaron Rodgers to win their next Super Bowl is closing? if so has he discussed that with >>> TT or TT >>> MM?

I say they have a mess on their hands. I say they have a bad defense and maybe the worst I've seen in 30 yrs. It's clearly in the chalk and over there >>> the chalk board. These are far smarter football people than I am. I see it and I 'll keep paying attention to see if they see it. I'll do all in my power to help with any discussion aimed at a consensus of Packerrats arriving at >>> seeing it.

So onwards we go with all manners of hope or not after a slim one point come from behind performance from the Matt Flynn led offense and the Packers. The Green bay Packers defeated the lowly Atlanta Falcons by one lousy point. Isn't that great ! No it wasn't great and it was very much luck that gave the Packers that win. Do you recall all the Falcon dropped pass's?

If that secondary doesn't clue in @ Dallas that Packer secondary gets eaten alive by a very desperate for a BIG WIN QB...Tony Romo. There's no way that Tony Romo must lose that game. It will take an entire team effort on behalf of the Green Bay Packers to deny Tony Romo in his house.

Yes it sure is. I believed we would see a Packer win in Week 14. Not a tremendous faith, yet, real faith.

This week we play the NFL team with the 30th ranked 'D'. The Packers have the 31st Ranked 'D'.

Dallas has the 8th Ranked 'O Vs the Packers 10th Ranked 'O'.

How do we measure Vs the Cowboys on ST's:

The Dallas Cowboys have the 8th ranked ST's and the Green Bay Packers the 21st Ranked ST's.

We play the Boys in their house.

It's a franchise QB or Tony Romo Vs a questionable backup quality QB in Matt Flynn.

If I could I'd ask MM and TT:

What are you doing about it all men? Do you understand the true gravity of it all men?

I want to see the team I love deliver on what TT and MM have tried to sell me the packer fan that team as being. Certainly not a bottom feeding team without Aaron Rodgers. Certainly not at best a 6-7 win team in the NFL.

If their team doesn't win more I want TT and MM to act accordingly this off season to make all necessary repairs and do the best they can to refit the team. I cannot simply stomach anymore lame excuses. Listen to Mike McCarthy use anymore worn out sound bites. Just do all necessary to win men...just win.

GO PACK GO !

[woodbuck27]

Have you been sniffing glue? Chicago's defense is nowhere near as good as Detroit's. Although, there is some truth in what you suggest in that Detroit's effectiveness depends a lot on whether they decide to actually play or not. Chicago has virtually nothing on Defense. Peppers takes off 2 of every three plays, McGuffin is a horrible as an end, and their secondary is awful. LBs are marginal without Briggs, and are only average with him.

Packers defense will get eaten alive by the current Chicago offense that is on an absolute roll, unless of course Cutler comes back and ruins the whole thing.

Detroits 'D' = 14th and da Bears have the 19th Ranked 'D'. Looking more at trhe NFCN Minny's 'D' is ranked 27th. Pulling up the rear in the NFCN

the Packers 'have'.... ahh are ranked the next to worst defense or 31st.

I do like the Bears offense with JM and agree that jay Cutler offers to them 'only' a liability. I'm a big Marc Trestman fan and for the life of me I know he's loyal and respectful to his players but Cutler in again over Josh Mac makes no sense to me.

It's not really enen there though.

We are going to get torched in Dallas as they rate higher than us across the board>>> On 'O' and 'D' and ST's the GREEN BAY PACKERS are ranked below the Dallas Cowboys. That's a lot to overcome in their house.

Tony Romo is a franchise QB and he'll be certainly ready to end our season come Sunday. Matt Flynn is at best a backup with moxy.

We do get them on a short week.

It's one week at a time Pack fans. I cannot look beyond the Boys.

MM certainly isn't looking beyond Dallas unless he's got an over abundance of energy and some to waste.

[Bretsky]

Go to call you out on the SEA comment.

Flynn was paid "good" starter money to go to SEA and be their starting QB. Wilson wasn't on the team when Flynn signed. Wilson "fell" to SEA and Wilson beat Flynn out in camp. Flynn was given every opportunity to win the starting position.

Not sure how much you are calling me out. My assertion is that Russell Wilson had far superior talent to Matt Flynn.....as a rookie and as a senior in college. This comes form a guy who admired Russell Wilson as well as any player....except for Ron Dayne...in College football (you know I bleed Badger). Talent wise, Flynn stood no chance to beat our Russell.

[pbmax]

Not sure how much you are calling me out. My assertion is that Russell Wilson had far superior talent to Matt Flynn.....as a rookie and as a senior in college. This comes form a guy who admired Russell Wilson as well as any player....except for Ron Dayne...in College football (you know I bleed Badger). Talent wise, Flynn stood no chance to beat our Russell.

Not sure about that level of surety at draft time. There is always a chance that the QB you hope drops to the third round is gone.

They had to be ready to start Flynn. I think he had a legit shot even if you believe subsequent events made it a longshot.

[bobblehead]

COME ON, KEEP THE POLITICAL SHIT IN FYI!!!!

THAT'S IS WHAT IT IS FOR!!!

I was merely using a real world analogy.