Official 49er Playoff Week Discussion Thread

[mraynrand]

Did the Packers one-gap more when Wood and Collins were in the secondary? My recollection says yes, and I'm thinking more and more that the 2-gapping is due to terror at the backside inability to shed/avoid blocks and tackle.

[pbmax]

Did the Packers one-gap more when Wood and Collins were in the secondary? My recollection says yes, and I'm thinking more and more that the 2-gapping is due to terror at the backside inability to shed/avoid blocks and tackle.

I don't think that has changed too much. They two gap on run downs and maybe nickel. Remember though, there is a difference between 2 gapping and Double Teaming. Pickett is trying to hold onto his ground AND technically two gaps when he is doubled but no one expects him to make most of the tackles through those gaps. He is expected to clog the lane. Trgo has said they don't 2 gap much, but they also don't call a lot of Jet rushes either (fly upfield, hit first thing whose numbers are less than 90).

Also this is time for a confession: I am conjecturing they are asking Raji to 2 gap based on results. He may not be assigned to 2 gap but to engage his blocker (free up the LBs) and read his one gap. If true, its pretty damning he cannot get off that block when he knows where he must go. What has been definitely reported is that Raji has been asked to stay at home more and free up the LBs.

But with Matthews injury AND Woodson being gone (Bishop and Barnett too) the quality of the second level has gone down. Its also obvious that without a rotation of Zombo, Jones and Walden at LOLB, each player was less than the sum of the parts. When any one of those guys had to start for weeks, teams could scheme/play call them away. When injury forced them to rotate, the opposition did not know what it was dealing with.

Pursuit/Jet rushing Raji and Mathews is also how Adrian Peterson gets a 25 yard run out of the backside of a dive because the defense gets itself out of shape. He goes left, they chase, he swerves backside which is in pursuit and he gets around the end into open pasture. Injuries really hurt here because if you know Raji is headed for the backfield, you can cover for him.

[mraynrand]

Its also obvious that without a rotation of Zombo, Jones and Walden at LOLB, each player was less than the sum of the parts. When any one of those guys had to start for weeks, teams could scheme/play call them away. When injury forced them to rotate, the opposition did not know what it was dealing with.

That's a really interesting theory. I have no way of knowing whether it's true (unless the opposition fessed up) but it seems plausible. One wonders about the general principle: rotating crap is better than stationary crap.

[pbmax]

I will say this about Capers and wist, it could be he cannot adjust to what he has. What he usually has is a great group of LBs. He does not have that now.

Problem is that to go 3-3 either puts a D Lineman on the field who cannot pass rush OR one who has not proven capable of stopping the run in base. Bigger might help in the run game, but that offense is simply going to pass if it senses that weakness. You tick Jones in there and are you going to get better run D?

The matchup problems are the same. If an offense takes a FB or TE off the field to put in a WR, do you want to shed a LB or DL?

Capers and most others want a LB to stay because its a better matchup AND in 3-4 rosters, that is where the pass rush/coverage is. Problem is, its not getting home enough.

[pbmax]

That's a really interesting theory. I have no way of knowing whether it's true (unless the opposition fessed up) but it seems plausible. One wonders about the general principle: rotating crap is better than stationary crap.

I think it worked only because they could NOT have been different. Jones had sacks but was actually good at holding the point. Zombo could bull rush and pursue. Walden was just kind of an athletic freak who could some of each and was OK in a one on one open field match.

[bobblehead]

I wondered a while back if he could 2 gap, in the context of the fact that he was being used more in the run game. KY was adamant he could not.

I have to believe KY, because they keep him inactive...and we primarily ask our DL to 2 gap it seems. Or if we are not asking that they suck even worse than I thought.

[bobblehead]

They still run 3-4 on the majority of 1st downs but it hasn't been as effective. i wrote this elsewhere but 2 gapping Raji has reduced his involvement and he doesn't shed unless he is quick off the ball. And Picket has been hurt and doubles are turning him.

I have no doubt though that teams run their 3WR-1TE-1RB package out there with the full intention of running out of it. Problem is, if Capers goes back to 3-4, that 3rd receiver or TE is killing the underneath coverage. The nickel and dime have slowed that recently since they shelved House and slot Tramontana and put Bush and Hyde inside with Tramontana sticking wide.

I did notice an improvement in tramon when they moved him outside. Sadly as you pointed out, it means we need to use Bush on defense. I like our D a lot more when Hayward is there.

[bobblehead]

I didn't think you did say that. Somebody did in a thread mid-season. Wilson is an average player, lucky if he can secure the one gap he's assigned.

The Pack has two guys who can two gap. Pickett and jolly. Raji has been on the nose and is assigned to two gap, but that really ain't his style. when he's on, he can be an effective middle DLineman, but damn, he's been hit or miss this year.

I also like the 30 fronts we ran at the beginning of the season, but I think the loss of Jolly and other factors have caused Capers to try to use that 2-4 deal more.

I'd be more critical of the defense, but with the personnel we have presently, I really can't say what we should be doing.

I wonder what the many internet DC's would draw up if they were handed the chalk?

I for some reason think Wilson is above average. Misused to be sure. He always seems active and making an impact when he is on the field though. Maybe I am wrong, but I am betting he starts somewhere next year.

[pbmax]

I did notice an improvement in tramon when they moved him outside. Sadly as you pointed out, it means we need to use Bush on defense. I like our D a lot more when Hayward is there.

Bush will at least knock some TEs around. It will cost the occasional penalty, though.

He has played well in the slot before AND he as the second best slot blitzer after Wood.

[mraynrand]

I did notice an improvement in tramon when they moved him outside. Sadly as you pointed out, it means we need to use Bush on defense. I like our D a lot more when Hayward is there.

Bush has played a lot better. It's a shocker to me because after watching him at the end of 2011 against Detroit, I thought he was a total loss except for limited man coverage. But after being absolutely clueless for so long, he seems to have developed a bit of a knack inside. He's made some nice plays the past few weeks. I do expect SF to target him like they targeted McMillian in the opener though....

[bobblehead]

Put the way KY just put it, I think you have to one gap everyone and attack. I am not sure that would be better overall but it would be something else to show them. If Adrian Peterson were still in the playoffs I would be too scared to try it.

Jolly is out, Wilson isn't the answer and Boyd is young. The best thing on the line are Raji, Jones and Neal when he is inside on the nickel. Stick two of the faster guys at end with Raji and Pickett rotating and hit gaps. Its could leave each ILB fighting a Guards but I am not sure what else to do. It seems insane that its going to get better unless they suddenly get healthy. I don't think they can run a 4-3, there isn't a MLB on the roster.

Talking through this, I am more convinced than ever that they really need a top notch ILB next to Hawk. Someone who will clean up all the trash left lying around while all the other guys wrestle.

I think there has to be a better way than we are approaching. Asking Raji (who isn't good at it) and Pickett (who is damaged) to 2 gap with NO OTHER FATTIES in the game is a huge chore. I guess some teams might do it, I don't watch other games analytically enough to say. I just think it opens you up to one of them being doubled into the other and still allowing a OL to plant the LB's. Throw in a lead back or TE on a dback and good luck stopping a run.

[bobblehead]

Most of the comments in this thread come back to my 2-3 year long contention that we are drafting good players, but they are miscast for either a straight-up 3-4, and/or whatever it is that Capers is trying to do.

We can't really go to a straight-up 3-4 b/c we don't have enough 2-gap DL, especially with Jolly out now; and Capers using the 2-4 as more of base than a sub-package, which is what it should be, certainly isn't working. Which brings us back to my contention that we should be using more 3-3 nickel alignments.

Capers 2-4 is getting flat out run over, and generating little pressure - one thing is for sure, this is not the answer, yet it is his "run to safety" alignment.

By swapping out the 2-4 for a 3-3, you at least have 3 down linemen who are in-line and prepared to take on the run, as opposed to just having 2. You also have another 40-70 lbs of muscle/fat in the box to either stuff the run, or squeeze the pocket. You still have the 5th DB on the field to deal with the 3rd WR, and you still have the option of using one of the 3 LB slots as a cover a guy, ala Brad Jones. You can man Jones up on the RB, or drop Hawk and the safety into short zones; you can play man or cover 2 on the outside and in the back.

In short, you have just as much flexibility, depending on personnel as you do with a 2-4. The 2-4 is getting us dismal results. If you can't get home by rushing 4 out of that alignment, then you need to give it a different look using most of the same personnel. I'd use the personnel in waves to keep everyone fresh, and scheme formations to down and distance relative to the offensive personnel. You're still matching up to their personnel, but you are better able to dictate to them, as opposed to them dictating to you.

Capers is entirely reactionary, while occassionally throwing in an exotic blitz wrinkle. Then he goes right back to his 2-4 and gives up easy yards.

I do expect Capers to run more 3-4 against the Niners, but with Jolly out, Raji and Pickett worn down, everyone else miscast as 3-4 down linemen, and Capers penchant to jump to the 2-4 as soon as possible - I expect a repeat of game 1 from this year.

Maybe the weather will help us? and maybe Rodgers and the offense can do enough? Let's hope so - it's the playoffs, and we have a puncher's chance.

Me and my pal wist I agree almost 100%. If you at least run a 3 man front you can use your 1 gap players. Its harder to wash them with a double team vs. the run. They also might just get some pressure up the middle on Kaperpuke and force him to the containing OLB's rushing from the edge. As long as your edge rushers don't push too far up the field you can force him to stumble around and do what he doesn't do well...throw under pressure.

[mraynrand]

Me and my pal wist I agree almost 100%. If you at least run a 3 man front you can use your 1 gap players. Its harder to wash them with a double team vs. the run. They also might just get some pressure up the middle on Kaperpuke and force him to the containing OLB's rushing from the edge. As long as your edge rushers don't push too far up the field you can force him to stumble around and do what he doesn't do well...throw under pressure.

That would be great if any of the one-gapping linemen could actually generate pass rush. Otherwise, all Kap has to do is threaten run and wait for a receiver to clear.

[bobblehead]

Did the Packers one-gap more when Wood and Collins were in the secondary? My recollection says yes, and I'm thinking more and more that the 2-gapping is due to terror at the backside inability to shed/avoid blocks and tackle.

Thing is, if you have 3 guys 1 gapping they should disrupt the run, maybe even make a tackle. That will make up for any deficiency.

[bobblehead]

That would be great if any of the one-gapping linemen could actually generate pass rush. Otherwise, all Kap has to do is threaten run and wait for a receiver to clear.

They simply have to collapse the pocket. Something I have seen Wilson and Raji to plenty of over the years. Daniels seems adept at it as well.