Former Packers still pursuing the dream

[Patler]

His exact words were, “it feels wrong calling Finley a Super Bowl champion.”

J-Mike is every fucking ounce of a Super Bowl champion as Butte is. To say otherwise is disrespectful.

Ya, I know what he wrote, and I sensed an almost emotional (over)reaction from you to his post and now to mine. And, no, his "exact words" were not as you quoted them to be.

When you put something in quotes, you should do it accurately and with enough content to convey the entire meaning, including nuance and explanation. His "exact words" on the matter were:

He has a ring but it feels a little wrong calling Finley a SB champion, considering he only played in five games to start that season. Like Barnett and Grant, he really didn't contribute to the 2010 championship run too much. (Emphasis added.)

Finley did his job for the time he was available, as did the others that have been mentioned, and a few more. Ryan Grant, who played just one game, is as much a Super Bowl champion as Finley is. So are the others who were there but never or rarely played in games or were released during the season.

Recognizing that some players had less of an impact on the season than others by saying it "feels a little wrong" to call them a super bowl champion is not disrespectful, it is recognizing the factual realities of that season. The Packers won it all in spite of having lost players like Finley, Barnett and Grant who were expected to be leaders but were able to contribute only a little at the start of the season, and not at all to the 7-3 run after they were out for the season, or to the 4-0 playoff run to the championship.

[Patler]

This seems the right spot for me to chime in with my usual "Robert Brooks woulda been a Packer HOFer and maybe more if he hadn't gotten hurt" spiel. I just think he was a pretty special wide receiver, and I was really bummed when he suffered that serious injury. I don't think he's as appreciated as he ought to have been, as far as his talent level.

I have to agree with you on that. Brooks' career is one of the (too many) Packers' careers I wish could have been played out more fully. Tim Lewis is another.

[bobblehead]

I have to agree with you on that. Brooks' career is one of the (too many) Packers' careers I wish could have been played out more fully. Tim Lewis is another.

Nick Collins. It changed the trajection of the organization for years. I think we win at least one more if he stayed healthy.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Ya, I know what he wrote, and I sensed an almost emotional (over)reaction from you to his post and now to mine. And, no, his "exact words" were not as you quoted them to be.

When you put something in quotes, you should do it accurately and with enough content to convey the entire meaning, including nuance and explanation. His "exact words" on the matter were:






Finley did his job for the time he was available, as did the others that have been mentioned, and a few more. Ryan Grant, who played just one game, is as much a Super Bowl champion as Finley is. So are the others who were there but never or rarely played in games or were released during the season.

Recognizing that some players had less of an impact on the season than others by saying it "feels a little wrong" to call them a super bowl champion is not disrespectful, it is recognizing the factual realities of that season. The Packers won it all in spite of having lost players like Finley, Barnett and Grant who were expected to be leaders but were able to contribute only a little at the start of the season, and not at all to the 7-3 run after they were out for the season, or to the 4-0 playoff run to the championship.

I reckon, next time you see J-Mike, say it to his face, “Yo, J-Mike, it feels a little wrong to call you a Super Bowl champ since you only played in 5 games for the Super Bowl 45-winning Packers.”

I would be willing to bet my $15/hr burger-flipping paycheck that J-Mike would perceive the quotation as disrespectful.

Sorry, Patler, you’ve been Tanked…again. Recall how you were Tanked at JSOnline after I proved to you - with math - that the Packers were never in a cap hell and it wasn’t impossible to re-sign Mike Wahle?

[bobblehead]

I was Tanked last night. Now I got a headache and need a nap.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Nick Collins. It changed the trajection of the organization for years. I think we win at least one more if he stayed healthy.

Speaking of premature career-ending injuries, no love for J-Mike?

Dude was the best TE in the Butte era by a wide margin. Too fast for linebackers, too big to DBs, Nutz said. Broke tackles as if he was some redneck from South Dakota. Had to share rocks with the likes of Nelson, Jennings, Jones and Cobb - that’s why J-Mike’s stats aren’t shinny to Patler’s liking.

The redneck from South Dakota is inspiring, but I reckon, it’s 2025 and the Packers are still searching for J-Mike’s replacement.

[Patler]

Speaking of premature career-ending injuries, no love for J-Mike?

Dude was the best TE in the Butte era by a wide margin. Too fast for linebackers, too big to DBs, Nutz said. Broke tackles as if he was some redneck from South Dakota. Had to share rocks with the likes of Nelson, Jennings, Jones and Cobb - that’s why J-Mike’s stats aren’t shinny to Patler’s liking.

The redneck from South Dakota is inspiring, but I reckon, it’s 2025 and the Packers are still searching for J-Mike’s replacement.

When did I say Finley's stats weren't to my liking? I had been thinking about writing a laundry list of players to include on my "could have been, but for...." list other than Tim Lewis, and Finley was to be on it for the reasons you state (mostly that GB searched for years for a replacement.) Where I differ with you is on the whole "respect" thing. Having known and worked with a number highly successful athletes, including former NFL and NHL players, I can say for a fact that in situations like Finley in 2010 (and Grant, Barnett, etc.), many athletes themselves felt the accomplishment was hollow, that they had not really contributed to it. They expressed the same sentiment that Smuggler did.

FYI - I would take Kraft over Finley. Per their combine performances, Kraft is taller, bigger, faster, stronger and more explosive than Finley was, and he relishes his role as a blocker and performs it more consistently than Finley did. Plus, Kraft has better hands.

My laundry list of some of the players I wish could have played longer, without injury, etc:
Tim Lewis
Nelson Toburen
Eddie Lee Ivery (early knee injuries changed him)
Mark D'Onofrio
Jim Grabowski (again, injuries early in his career)
Willie Buchanan (good career, but two broken legs changed him)
Nick Collins
Gary Berry
Terrence Murphy
Sterling Sharp (should have been a HoF shoo-in, not the struggle to get there that he had)
Jermichael Finley

...and two recent ones:
Jaire Alexander
David Bakhtiari

[run pMc]

Meh, I figure he got a ring, you can call him a SB champion or not. Frank Zombo and Rob Francois are 'SB champions', however much you think they contributed.
Francois played 8 games and had 3 tackles. Finley played 5 and had 301 yards receiving. Whether you like the word "champions" or feel one is more "deserving" than another is a matter of opinion, but I figure they don't win that trophy without each other.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

When did I say Finley's stats weren't to my liking? I had been thinking about writing a laundry list of players to include on my "could have been, but for...." list other than Tim Lewis, and Finley was to be on it for the reasons you state (mostly that GB searched for years for a replacement.) Where I differ with you is on the whole "respect" thing. Having known and worked with a number highly successful athletes, including former NFL and NHL players, I can say for a fact that in situations like Finley in 2010 (and Grant, Barnett, etc.), many athletes themselves felt the accomplishment was hollow, that they had not really contributed to it. They expressed the same sentiment that Smuggler did.

FYI - I would take Kraft over Finley. Per their combine performances, Kraft is taller, bigger, faster, stronger and more explosive than Finley was, and he relishes his role as a blocker and performs it more consistently than Finley did. Plus, Kraft has better hands.

My laundry list of some of the players I wish could have played longer, without injury, etc:
Tim Lewis
Nelson Toburen
Eddie Lee Ivery (early knee injuries changed him)
Mark D'Onofrio
Jim Grabowski (again, injuries early in his career)
Willie Buchanan (good career, but two broken legs changed him)
Nick Collins
Gary Berry
Terrence Murphy
Sterling Sharp (should have been a HoF shoo-in, not the struggle to get there that he had)
Jermichael Finley

...and two recent ones:
Jaire Alexander
David Bakhtiari

It’s not like J-Mike stripped naked on his way to the locker room and quit on his team. Or he refused to enter a game at the coach’s request and quit on his team.

J-Mike sacrificed his season going after the rock Lee stupidly excreted. There’s nothing hollow about J-Mike’s 2010 season. He was every ounce a Packer that season as Butte was.

You are either a Super Bowl champ or you’re not. J-Mike is a a Super Bowl champ. There ain’t such fuck as a “wrongful” Super Bowl champion, except in rare cases where a player quit on his team, a la AB, a la Scott Campbell’s bastard son, DeVondre.

Kraft blocks better than J-Mike did, but J-Mike was the better receiver. We don’t see Love lobbing the rock up in the red zone to Kraft the way Butte once did with J-Mike.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I was Tanked last night. Now I got a headache and need a nap.

Wish I could get “tanked” with you this month in the desert.

Plan to visit Vegas later in the month has been aborted. First, my good, gay friend bailed for other shit. Flip burgers for $15/hr. Would never have been able to afford bunking at the Venetian the last two times I was in Vegas without the cool dude.

Alternatively, planned to visit solo and stay at the “cheaper” Harrah’s. Then lost $6000 trying to win buy-in frogskins for the trip. Had I simply opted for a 2 months sabbatical from poker in May/June, I’d still have the 6K to take to the desert. Irony?

Oh well. Maybe in January. I’d like to visit to drown out the sorrow of yet another Packers season ending in failure. It’s always depressing as hell whenever a Packer season ends short of the Packers hoisting the Lombardi trophy.

[Patler]

Kraft blocks better than J-Mike did, but J-Mike was the better receiver. We don’t see Love lobbing the rock up in the red zone to Kraft the way Butte once did with J-Mike.

I don't remember Finley being a touchdown machine for Rodgers in the red zone. Kraft has better hands and is the better receiver and all-around TE, in my opinion.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I don't remember Finley being a touchdown machine for Rodgers in the red zone. Kraft has better hands and is the better receiver and all-around TE, in my opinion.

We don’t see Kraft lining up wide in the red zone and Love lobbing up passes to Kraft. We saw that with Butte and J-Mike. J-Mike’s kung fu as a receiver was better - I reckon, of course.

[Fritz]

When did I say Finley's stats weren't to my liking? I had been thinking about writing a laundry list of players to include on my "could have been, but for...." list other than Tim Lewis, and Finley was to be on it for the reasons you state (mostly that GB searched for years for a replacement.) Where I differ with you is on the whole "respect" thing. Having known and worked with a number highly successful athletes, including former NFL and NHL players, I can say for a fact that in situations like Finley in 2010 (and Grant, Barnett, etc.), many athletes themselves felt the accomplishment was hollow, that they had not really contributed to it. They expressed the same sentiment that Smuggler did.

FYI - I would take Kraft over Finley. Per their combine performances, Kraft is taller, bigger, faster, stronger and more explosive than Finley was, and he relishes his role as a blocker and performs it more consistently than Finley did. Plus, Kraft has better hands.

My laundry list of some of the players I wish could have played longer, without injury, etc:
Tim Lewis
Nelson Toburen
Eddie Lee Ivery (early knee injuries changed him)
Mark D'Onofrio
Jim Grabowski (again, injuries early in his career)
Willie Buchanan (good career, but two broken legs changed him)
Nick Collins
Gary Berry
Terrence Murphy
Sterling Sharp (should have been a HoF shoo-in, not the struggle to get there that he had)
Jermichael Finley

...and two recent ones:
Jaire Alexander
David Bakhtiari

I've boldfaced the two that stick in my memory. When the Packers drafted D'Onofrio out of Penn State, I was still getting draft information from little snippets of summary columns in the Detroit Free Press listing which NFC North (was it called that then? I think maybe it was the NFC Central) teams drafted whom. I was excited by the brief description of D'Onofrio, whom they drafted in the second, but he suffered a pretty serious injury in his first training camp, I think, and played in maybe two games. Never got to see what he might've been, but he came out of Linebacker U, as Penn State was known.

Terrance Murphy is another second rounder who seemed so promising - and you have to remember rookie receivers didn't have the impact they seem to have these days - but he made a mark early on in training camp. Coaches and the QB (what was that guy's name again? Favor?) loved him, and he had a few nice catches in his first couple games. Then he got hurt - in Detroit, maybe? - and they found he had that narrowed spinal column, and that was it. What a shame. Seemed like he had the hands, the route running, the attitude, to become a go-to wide receiver.

[ThunderDan]

We don’t see Kraft lining up wide in the red zone and Love lobbing up passes to Kraft. We saw that with Butte and J-Mike. J-Mike’s kung fu as a receiver was better - I reckon, of course.

We don't run that offense anymore. We use to have Ed West who would fall down get up and leak to the back opposite corner of the endzone for TD after TD. We don't run that anymore either.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

We don't run that offense anymore. We use to have Ed West who would fall down get up and leak to the back opposite corner of the endzone for TD after TD. We don't run that anymore either.

I meant lining up wide at the X position and running the fade route, a la Quarless at Miami in ‘14 for the game winner.

Pretty sure Doubs has caught plenty of TDs in similar fashions. Games vs NO and SD comes to mind, if my mind ain’t corrupted.