After 1 preseason game - Pack it in, the season is already over

[ThunderDan]

The entire logic of this line of thinking is premised on there being a correct or consensus ranking of draft players among teams and that we have access to it.

We don't and there is no consensus. And that doesn't even get into the question of need versus talent.

Here, here. I second the motion.

Fuck, you draft a player that falls and it is luck. You draft the player you are supposed to at 5 and you suck even if he has started for your team for 8 years because you should have known to draft a flier at that spot who is now All-Pro.

[wist43]

Agreed. I am always amazed at the psychic ability on this forum after seeing the defense play 10 minutes in the first preseason game.

It isn't how anyone played - it's the scheme that Capers put on the field... it was identical in every way to last year.

People talk about vanilla, and to be sure the preseason is all about vanilla, but what we saw were the base alignments out of which game plans are conjured. What we saw was the exact same base alignments as he ran last year - only with different personnel. That is what is disheartening.

I think we'll be better this year... Peppers makes us better, a healthy Matthews makes us better, maybe the mess in the back end will get cleaned up a bit - terrible, horrible safety play; and our ILB's are both below average - I think we have enough talent to make a playoff run, but Capers puts a damper on those prospects.

[Zool]

It isn't how anyone played - it's the scheme that Capers put on the field... it was identical in every way to last year.

People talk about vanilla, and to be sure the preseason is all about vanilla, but what we saw were the base alignments out of which game plans are conjured. What we saw was the exact same base alignments as he ran last year - only with different personnel. That is what is disheartening.

I think we'll be better this year... Peppers makes us better, a healthy Matthews makes us better, maybe the mess in the back end will get cleaned up a bit - terrible, horrible safety play; and our ILB's are both below average - I think we have enough talent to make a playoff run, but Capers puts a damper on those prospects.

I'm starting to think that the DL ideas Capers is going with, are related to ILB play. They tried to use space pluggers and let Hawk and Jones fill. Hawk had a good season last year, but he's not going to be making any pro-bowls soon. Jones is Jones. Maybe the switch to quicker penetrating DL is indicative of the ILB play. Gotta have playmakers somewhere in the middle.

[Just Jeff]

The entire logic of this line of thinking is premised on there being a correct or consensus ranking of draft players among teams and that we have access to it.

We don't and there is no consensus. And that doesn't even get into the question of need versus talent.

There is no agreeable consensus, correct or otherwise on much of anything, yet every day the price of Apple stock, a Toyota Camry and the relative value of a NFL draftee is there. Wikipedia advances the model that the consensus of ideas, provides a superior outcome to any one idea. If you are saying that consensus does not exist, I really don't know how to even respond. If you are saying that consensus requires agreement, then I have a different definition of consensus than you.

[3irty1]

I'll tell you what, it looks like our team is absolutely stacked at the armchair management positions. I'm optimistic that we could see career levels of logical fallacy out of our veteran leadership just as our emerging stars hit their prime. Just look at these levels of extreme arrogance and aggressive speculation after just one preseason game and its obvious this forum is poised for a deep run.

[Just Jeff]

I'll tell you what, it looks like our team is absolutely stacked at the armchair management positions. I'm optimistic that we could see career levels of logical fallacy out of our veteran leadership just as our emerging stars hit their prime. Just look at these levels of extreme arrogance and aggressive speculation after just one preseason game and its obvious this forum is poised for a deep run.

Would you suggest that we all stop posting until at least the bye week?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Would you suggest that we all stop posting until at least the bye week?

Do we have a bye week on this forum?

[Bossman641]

My wife thanks all of you. 3 series of vanilla first string D and we already know the season is a failure. I guess I won't spend my Sundays watching football.

[TravisWilliams23]

There is no agreeable consensus, correct or otherwise on much of anything, yet every day the price of Apple stock, a Toyota Camry and the relative value of a NFL draftee is there. Wikipedia advances the model that the consensus of ideas, provides a superior outcome to any one idea. If you are saying that consensus does not exist, I really don't know how to even respond. If you are saying that consensus requires agreement, then I have a different definition of consensus than you.

Jeff, this one has me confused. Here's the Mirriam-Webster definition of CONSENSUS: con·sen·sus noun, often attributive \kən-ˈsen(t)-səs\
: a general agreement about something : an idea or opinion that is shared by all the people in a group

I lost track of what there is/was a consensus on. That the Rodgers pick was luck or that TT followed the consensus that he was indeed a great prospect who luckily fell to GB?

I guess my point is that for something to be a consensus, you HAVE TO AGREE on whatever. Yes?

[ThunderDan]

There is no agreeable consensus, correct or otherwise on much of anything, yet every day the price of Apple stock, a Toyota Camry and the relative value of a NFL draftee is there. Wikipedia advances the model that the consensus of ideas, provides a superior outcome to any one idea. If you are saying that consensus does not exist, I really don't know how to even respond. If you are saying that consensus requires agreement, then I have a different definition of consensus than you.

Your comments make no sense.

Apple makes millions of transactions a year, Toyota Camry cars are sold every day, used and new, there is plenty of data that supports a price per share or car.

All there is for a college player are his measurable and game tape. That information may or may not correctly predict the value of that player in the NFL.

While there might be a consensus of opinion in the NFL it is just that. Each individual team has its own group that come to its own consensus. That group can come up with a completely different choice than another team's group's consensus. All we ever see is the ESPN and SI draft boards by employees that weren't/aren't good enough to be hired by an NFL team to help with their draft.

32 teams, 32 different draft boards. Obviously that must be the case or ARod wouldn't have fallen so far because everyone would have had the same draft board.

[Just Jeff]

Jeff, this one has me confused. Here's the Mirriam-Webster definition of CONSENSUS: con·sen·sus noun, often attributive \kən-ˈsen(t)-səs\
: a general agreement about something : an idea or opinion that is shared by all the people in a group

I lost track of what there is/was a consensus on. That the Rodgers pick was luck or that TT followed the consensus that he was indeed a great prospect who luckily fell to GB?

I guess my point is that for something to be a consensus, you HAVE TO AGREE on whatever. Yes?

Consensus doesn't mean that everyone thought AR would be picked at 24. Consensus means that there was a general agreement. That general agreement could mean that plus or minus x, it could mean with a margin of error of x, it could mean with a x% confidence interval, it could mean the mean, that could mean the mode, that could mean the median, that could mean any number of possible measurements of consensus. My point was that NONE of those had AR at 24.

[wist43]

I'm starting to think that the DL ideas Capers is going with, are related to ILB play. They tried to use space pluggers and let Hawk and Jones fill. Hawk had a good season last year, but he's not going to be making any pro-bowls soon. Jones is Jones. Maybe the switch to quicker penetrating DL is indicative of the ILB play. Gotta have playmakers somewhere in the middle.

I think the biggest problem we have at ILB is the lack of anyone with instincts at the position. Watch old film of Ray Lewis - even after he couldn't move anymore - he always knew exactly where to be, what hole to fill, if it was a dump off, etc... and when he arrived, he arrived with bad intentions.

Forget the ability to dominate physically - I'll take AJ Hawk with Ray Lewis instincts all day long at ILB; but alas, Hawk is terminally slow to diagnose, and only average in coverage - makes a lot of tackles downfield, but rarely if ever makes a play.

As for the DL going to a more penetrating version of the 3-4, I'm perfectly okay with that, but not with our high-end draft choices that can be difference makers in the nickel - when we are going to be playing nickel most of the time anyway.

Use the base time as a breather for the pass rushers, and save them the wear and tear that comes with trying to stack 320 T's, FBs, TE, pulling G's, etc.

[TravisWilliams23]

Consensus doesn't mean that everyone thought AR would be picked at 24. Consensus means that there was a general agreement. That general agreement could mean that plus or minus x, it could mean with a margin of error of x, it could mean with a x% confidence interval, it could mean the mean, that could mean the mode, that could mean the median, that could mean any number of possible measurements of consensus. My point was that NONE of those had AR at 24.

That is absolutely true! But.....when he DID free-fall, ONLY TT out of the first 24 GM's had the smarts to pull the trigger on him.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think the biggest problem we have at ILB is the lack of anyone with instincts at the position.

You've been posting this since the Gerald Ford administration.

I was going to say that Hawk has instincts, but now glancing up at your post I see you beat me to it. Hawk is all-around decent player, not a liability in any respect.

[wist43]

You've been posting this since the Gerald Ford administration.

I was going to say that Hawk has instincts, but now glancing up at your post I see you beat me to it. Hawk is all-around decent player, not a liability in any respect.

Hawk is always slow to react - it's why he ends up making so many tackles 5 yds downfield, instead of playing downhill and filling the hole.