Brady 4 Game Suspension Upheld

[pbmax]

BTW, even if you think I am off my rocker, remember this:

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 19m19 minutes ago
Interesting. @judybattista says the sides were moving close to a 1-game suspension settlement. But Brady wanted records sealed. NFL wouldn’t

Judy Battista is a stenographer for the NFL, as the transcripts indicate the NFL wanted the records sealed.

[mraynrand]

You're just avoiding the question. What rule did Brady violate?.

"Since the only rule violation that has occurred has been the failure to turn over cell phone records..."

[pbmax]

"Since the only rule violation that has occurred has been the failure to turn over cell phone records..."

Its like getting Capone over his tax records.

[pbmax]

Sometimes, Florio reminds me of why I read him in the first place:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/11/judge-berman-tells-nfl-nflpa-to-keep-talking-about-a-potential-settlement/

A long time ago, when I was only practicing law and hadn’t practiced law for very long, a judge asked in a pretrial conference if my client would keep a settlement offer on the table for 24 hours, no matter how he ruled on a pending issue that could have delivered an outright victory to my client. I said, “But, Your Honor, if you rule in my favor, my client won’t want to settle at that point.”

The judge then shot me a glance that carried this message: Hey dumbass, that’s my message to the other guy that he’d better take the offer while he can.

So I agreed, and the other lawyer quickly took the offer.

[sharpe1027]

There is no evidence that they did. Even the Colts footballs that started the game at 13.x PSI were below tolerance at halftime (3 of 4 measured).

Two studies, Head Start Labs, an offshoot of Carnegie Mellon (video here, report here) and AEI found there to be NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE FOR DEFLATION.

Smart Labs found that a wet ball plus colder conditions easily accommodate the pressure differential in the Patriots footballs. AEI found that tortured mathematics aside, the measurements taken at halftime (if you account for warming that occurred while they were measuring and re-inflating, 13 minutes in a room 20+ degrees warmer than outside) show that the Patriots and Colts balls experienced the same effects from the wet and cold conditions and that the loss of pressure, applied in reverse, was consistent with pregame measurements that showed the Pats footballs at 12.5 and the Colts at just over 13.0.

There is no physical evidence of a crime.

Those two studies do not prove or disprove anything. As I have said, natural reasons for the loss of pressure was within the realm of possibility, if you make some assumptions that line up for the Pats; however, the results are also consistent with deflation.

My point is not to say I am right 100%, but merely offer up that the evidence is sufficient for a reasonable person to conclude that they likely let air out of the balls. For the reasons I noted before, I think it is perfectly reasonable to come to that conclusion. Different people will place different weight on different evidence and reach different conclusions. That's the way this works.

[pbmax]

Those two studies are enough to conclude that the NFL has no idea if anyone tampered with the ball. Any evidence that the Patriots were prepared to do so, withers on the vine of uncertainty.

You cannot claim there has been a homicide, investigate, find many circumstantially interesting pieces of evidence (gun, missing gun, ammo, shells, opportunity, motive) and then convict for murder if the forensic examiners cannot prove the deceased died because of a bullet.

[sharpe1027]

For PB, the HSL report needed to wet the balls before getting in the realm of possibility; however, nothing in their report mentions the humidity of the rooms in question. It is likely that they completely over looked this aspect and that the balls were cooled below the desired temperature through evaporative cooling. Accordingly, it is quite possible that the HSL results support tampering.

The AEI report made a number of assumptions as to the order of the testing, the timing of the testing and the amount of warming up, but even then they could not rule out deflation. They were successful, to me, in refuting the strong inference in the Wells report, but not in establishing that there was NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE FOR DEFLATION. They offered a plausible theory that was consistent with there being no deflation.

[sharpe1027]

Those two studies are enough to conclude that the NFL has no idea if anyone tampered with the ball. Any evidence that the Patriots were prepared to do so, withers on the vine of uncertainty.

You cannot claim there has been a homicide, investigate, find many circumstantially interesting pieces of evidence (gun, missing gun, ammo, shells, opportunity, motive) and then convict for murder if the forensic examiners cannot prove the deceased died because of a bullet.

This isn't a criminal proceeding.

[pbmax]

The burden of proof has to rest on the party making the charge, at least in regard to the nature of the crime. The lack of records (no numbering on balls, no pre-game inflation recorded), no record of the order in which the balls were measured and re-inflated at halftime, should reflect on the uncertainty of the underlying charge.

Not the weakness of the arguments mustered against it.

[mraynrand]

Its like getting Capone over his tax records.

I agree. Because in both cases they know the party in question violated rules/laws.

[sharpe1027]

The burden of proof has to rest on the party making the charge, at least in regard to the nature of the crime. The lack of records (no numbering on balls, no pre-game inflation recorded), no record of the order in which the balls were measured and re-inflated at halftime, should reflect on the uncertainty of the underlying charge.

Not the weakness of the arguments mustered against it.

I rest my case on the totality of the evidence, not the weakness of the arguments against it. That is a self-serving mischaracterization of what we have been discussing. The burden of proof is meaningless here because we are not parties free to enter additional evidence in rebuttal. We have the evidence and facts from which we can make an informed decision on the ultimate issue. Burden means little in this context.

I have acknowledged that others may reach a different conclusion, is it so hard for you to do the same?

[Zool]

You're just avoiding the question. What rule did Brady violate?

Wow, almost went full internet there, misspelling the contraction of you are. Might need to do some work now.

Was asked to turn over things, did not comply in full. Unless I am wrong about that. Frankly I'm just tired of hearing about the whole thing. I stopped watching any sort of sports news because this has sucked away a good deal of my interest in professional football.

[pbmax]

Was asked to turn over things, did not comply in full. Unless I am wrong about that. Frankly I'm just tired of hearing about the whole thing. I stopped watching any sort of sports news because this has sucked away a good deal of my interest in professional football.

That I agree with. But then it should be a fine. In Roger's appeal ruling, he now says Brady “‘knew about, approved of, consented to, and provided inducements’ in support of a scheme to tamper with the game balls used in the AFC Championship Game.”

So we are on the conspiracy phase of the charges, having let the physical evidence slide by.

[George Cumby]

Was asked to turn over things, did not comply in full. Unless I am wrong about that. Frankly I'm just tired of hearing about the whole thing. I stopped watching any sort of sports news because this has sucked away a good deal of my interest in professional football.

This.

As a sad commentary on the media and my own state of mental health, PR is my primary source of Packers and NFL news.

[sharpe1027]

That I agree with. But then it should be a fine. In Roger's appeal ruling, he now says Brady “‘knew about, approved of, consented to, and provided inducements’ in support of a scheme to tamper with the game balls used in the AFC Championship Game.”

So we are on the conspiracy phase of the charges, having let the physical evidence slide by.

There is evidence that Brady knew about it, approved of it, consented to it and provided inducements -- even if it didn't happen (which seems unlikely given mysterious disappearance of the balls and the trip off camera). Is it enough evidence? I think so.

If you read the texts in plain context, and avoid conjuring up strange hypotheticals about deflating a person by losing weight, etc., the most logical thing to me is that Brady was offering signed merchandise, if not cash, in exchange for the use of a needle to deflate balls in a manner that was not within the rules (hence the need to provide compensation at all and the reference about not going to ESPN, yet...). In that context, does it really matter if the balls were actually deflated by a meaningful amount on that day?