Jeff Janis: He Who Conquers

[Bretsky]

agree; RR is a good complimentary #2 TE to go with a more talented receiving TE who can stretch the field. He'll stick around for a while and I think Q will be gone soon.

[pbmax]

If he could take lessons from Jones about how to interpose his body between the defender and the QB, most questions would be answered.

[sharpe1027]

If he could take lessons from Jones about how to interpose his body between the defender and the QB, most questions would be answered.

He has poor body control. Not going to learn that over the weekend. Should have drafted a basketball player.

[pbmax]

He has poor body control. Not going to learn that over the weekend. Should have drafted a basketball player.

I don't know, I never played a receiver of any type, but that seems like the kind of thing you could teach. But it might be like rebounding, where some folks just have a knack for trailing the ball to the exact area it will bounce if the shot is missed. To me, it seems more like boxing out, which you would think you could learn.

[mraynrand]

You are a disgrace to the Packerrats organization.

From time to time, in all your blathering, you strike upon an eternal truth. I have to believe it is totally by accident.

[sharpe1027]

I don't know, I never played a receiver of any type, but that seems like the kind of thing you could teach. But it might be like rebounding, where some folks just have a knack for trailing the ball to the exact area it will bounce if the shot is missed. To me, it seems more like boxing out, which you would think you could learn.

IDK, name one guy in the NFL that made a significant improvement on their body control. Think of Gates or even Finley, you saw it right away. They used their body well in various different actions. Compare that the Quarless. He looked comparatively awkward from the start and he still does to this day. Has Quarless improved? Maybe, but certainly not leaps and bounds.

Anecdotal experience only, but boxing out is much more mechanical. You have can actively think about doing it still have time to find your man and get in his way. You are not doing much else at the same time. Even then, the longer someone has been trained to do it (and the younger the age) the more consistent they will be about it.

Using your body to shield while moving, tracking the ball and trying to catch it at the same time is more of an sub-conscious action and therefore is something that is learned through repetition over time. The earlier you learn that type of skill, generally the better you will be at it.

[pbmax]

I don't think this falls under body control, or at least what I think you mean by that term. I am talking about an active fight for position as the ball is throw or at the break of a route. Getting a guy on your hip or back or elbowing him as you turn past to look for the ball.

I don't care if he can high point the ball, juke, out jump or out time the defender. Put you body in the way of the defender getting to the path of the ball. If you intend to do it, then the bumping and jostling is not a surprise and you can reset you hands, arms and torso to catch the ball.

Jones learned to do it and so did Nelson, though Jones is better at it.

[mraynrand]

You mocked a strawman fan for thinking Janis is better than he is when even his most ardent supporters have not made any prediction about whether he'll cut it. We {sniff} just want to see what he can do.

After plainly suggesting that Janis is no damn good, you now claim to be skeptical, undecided; you share your inner turmoil.

I had to go back to the first page of this mess to recall what I'd written. These threads can metastasize. I admit to both: That Janis is 4/5 material only; that he is a bottom feeder who will never rise above Cory Bradford Status (if that's 'no damn good' then so be it). I also made the point I believe that he isn't playing more because of trust concerns; Rodgers doesn't trust him to do the right thing/make the right adjustments. And yes, although it is relatively minor, I have some 'inner turmoil' in that I could easily be wrong. I hope I am proved wrong, preferably by this weekend.

[sharpe1027]

I don't think this falls under body control, or at least what I think you mean by that term. I am talking about an active fight for position as the ball is throw or at the break of a route. Getting a guy on your hip or back or elbowing him as you turn past to look for the ball.

I don't care if he can high point the ball, juke, out jump or out time the defender. Put you body in the way of the defender getting to the path of the ball. If you intend to do it, then the bumping and jostling is not a surprise and you can reset you hands, arms and torso to catch the ball.

Jones learned to do it and so did Nelson, though Jones is better at it.

Not sure you can really separate them so cleanly. Those things you mention as not relevant all play a key role in shielding the ball. How else do you "put your body in the way of the defender?" It requires you to feel where the defender is, understand where the ball is coming in, and then control your body to continue to shield as the pass is coming in. If you just get yourself into position and are static, that's not nearly as effective.

If it were so easy to learn, NFL teams would be drafting guys with pure physical talents more often and training them up. Instead, you see a lot discussion on this type of thing in draft analysis.

Also, both Jordy and Jones were good basketball players.

[pbmax]

^All could be very true. I would think, however, that there are certain techniques and route running principles that would reinforce those skills.

I am not sure coming back for the ball against aggressive coverage on a stop or dig route is as much body control as it is attention to detail and practice. But you are probably right that much of it is improvisation.

[sharpe1027]

^All could be very true. I would think, however, that there are certain techniques and route running principles that would reinforce those skills.

I am not sure coming back for the ball against aggressive coverage on a stop or dig route is as much body control as it is attention to detail and practice. But you are probably right that much of it is improvisation.

Yeah, I agree you can always improve. I disagree that there is much likelihood of getting R. Rodgers anywhere in the zip code of Antonio Gates relative to shielding the ball. It is a matter of how much you can move the needle.

[Patler]

IDK, name one guy in the NFL that made a significant improvement on their body control. Think of Gates or even Finley, you saw it right away. They used their body well in various different actions. Compare that the Quarless. He looked comparatively awkward from the start and he still does to this day. Has Quarless improved? Maybe, but certainly not leaps and bounds.

Anecdotal experience only, but boxing out is much more mechanical. You have can actively think about doing it still have time to find your man and get in his way. You are not doing much else at the same time. Even then, the longer someone has been trained to do it (and the younger the age) the more consistent they will be about it.

Using your body to shield while moving, tracking the ball and trying to catch it at the same time is more of an sub-conscious action and therefore is something that is learned through repetition over time. The earlier you learn that type of skill, generally the better you will be at it.

Actually, I think Finley was a guy who DID improve dramatically. He didn't play a lot as a rookie, but when he did, he let DBs take the ball away from him several times, and in a close game when he failed to come up with a crucial catch, he blamed ARs accuracy, and said "I don't do no back shoulder."

[Pugger]

agree; RR is a good complimentary #2 TE to go with a more talented receiving TE who can stretch the field. He'll stick around for a while and I think Q will be gone soon.

RRodgers reminds me of Bubba Franks = slow of foot but decent in the red zone. RR has nice hands (he had a terrible game against Denver Sunday night).

[Pugger]

IDK, name one guy in the NFL that made a significant improvement on their body control. Think of Gates or even Finley, you saw it right away. They used their body well in various different actions. Compare that the Quarless. He looked comparatively awkward from the start and he still does to this day. Has Quarless improved? Maybe, but certainly not leaps and bounds.

Anecdotal experience only, but boxing out is much more mechanical. You have can actively think about doing it still have time to find your man and get in his way. You are not doing much else at the same time. Even then, the longer someone has been trained to do it (and the younger the age) the more consistent they will be about it.

Using your body to shield while moving, tracking the ball and trying to catch it at the same time is more of an sub-conscious action and therefore is something that is learned through repetition over time. The earlier you learn that type of skill, generally the better you will be at it.

At least Q can block...

[sharpe1027]

Actually, I think Finley was a guy who DID improve dramatically. He didn't play a lot as a rookie, but when he did, he let DBs take the ball away from him several times, and in a close game when he failed to come up with a crucial catch, he blamed ARs accuracy, and said "I don't do no back shoulder."

IDK, you could see his body control from the start. Certainly had issues with effort and mental early on. I think his improvement was more in those areas. His body control was touted in his draft profiles.