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Originally posted by texaspackerbacker
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It’s like you live in an alternate universe inside your geriatric head -
Originally posted by Rutnstrut View Post
Can’t trade him for a few years, we’re stuck with him for better or worseComment
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I say again, ingrates and imbecilic detractors of Aaron Rodgers piss me off.What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?Comment
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I guessing a lot of people are reading wwwaaayyyy more into this than what really happened. I wasn't in the locker room and am not privy to what really was going on. Until somebody writes a tell-all book most of this is just conjecture. We are all trying to figure out why the season went to hell. I suspect there are several reasons and any that I think is the truth is way off.Originally posted by denverYooper View PostComment
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We are stuck with Aaron Rodgers as the Franchise QB he certainly should be accepted as being. The TT and MM act went on far too long and extended wronly into this Season. It was easy to predict a downfall for the Green Bay Packers this Season and I've said for a number of Seasons now the weakest LINK was Mike McCarthy. So finally that's over and so we move forward.
Having written that it's disturbing now to be reading accounts of Aaron Rodgers attitude to the play calling of MM during game day (s); and with no disrespect for ARod's possible negative attitude and that; but that shit has to be worked out clearly and internally and never personified on the playing field.
I hope Aaron Rodgers has broad shoulders and he gets beyond the oft mentioned chip on his shoulders to demonstrate he is all we see his potential to being next Season and beyond.
Is penchant for not throwing Picks is confining when he doesn't have enough targets to be totally confident in. That fact has to be addressed and solved beginning next Season.
He needs all the support that the Team Management can afford him as he is our BEST REAL Chance. Is it too much to ask for an outstanding addition to the Team this Off Season on both sides of the ball?
It's also very necessary to keep Aaron Rodgers on his feet as this Guy certainly appears injury prone.
As an assist to that when will the Team endeavour something more positive and reducing adversity due to long term injuries?
I would enjoy this question to be adddressed aggressively.
I'll add this as an assist for Aaron Rodgers and Team Leadership:
I also feel we need a change and Special Teams.
GO PACK GO !Last edited by woodbuck27; 01-05-2019, 08:25 AM.** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. ThoreauComment
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Think back to the trigger happy Favre in 1999-2000. Had a poor year by his standards and looked very much like his younger self with Sherman Lewis at the helm of the offense. This is after he and Holmgren struggled a bit in the 1998 season with Favre wanting to go deeper more often than Holmgren did. Changed some plays at the LOS and had a lesser year compared to his previous MVP efforts. Holmgren seemed less in command with one foot out of the door.
Rodgers is exactly in this spot and too many of you want to pull the rip cord. He may not be 2011 Rodgers anymore (then again, no one has had the 2011 Packer offense since then either except maybe KC this year) but he is still an All Pro and Pro Bowl QB and most teams would sell their families to get one.
I can understand the cap situation complaint and wanting to trade him. But just remember that other teams understand that too and teams in the front of the draft that would yield Mayfield probably don't want to give up as much as you might think. Unlike the Amari Cooper trade (which yielded a first rounder but was going to be a middle of the round pick), there is a premium on early in the round picks especially when teams are hunting for a franchise signal caller. I don't think the Browns were as eager to trade for Rodgers as the suggested trades on this board assume. So in reality you are looking at a first round draft pick somewhere after #4 where your selections could be Darnold, Jackson, Allen and Rosen. Crapshoot. And that assumes McCarthy can do for them what he did for Favre and Rodgers, which is not a given at this point.
The Bears gave up a gold mine of picks to move up one spot and protect their QB wish list.
Even if they get Mayfield, do you think McCarthy's offense works for him? Hue Jackson's didn't. It took the unplanned promotion of Freddie Kitchens to show that Mayfield may be a franchise player.
So trade away, but like all draft picks and FA, is a 50% crap shoot you win with that player.
I do not think this is 2007 Favre, though its possible (he obviously wanted Nelson back and wasn't all that happy with the young WR). Favre wanted out and didn't like Ted's approach. They had directly butted heads and Favre lost. Rodgers hasn't made much comment about Gute, but I don't sense that is where he head is at.Last edited by pbmax; 01-05-2019, 09:31 AM.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
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On the video:
Rodgers changed the play in the four minute offense. Pretty clear sign of offensive dysfunction given its the second vet mention of this (Saturday). But think about what the offense has been like this year.
There have been three bright spots: quick passing when Rodgers is hurt, the opening 15 play script and the 4th quarter scramble offense when behind.
None of those offenses belong to McCarthy's playbook. He doesn't install them in the offseason and doesn't want to rep what he doesn't think he will call in the game. Rodgers and he had to come to an agreement mid-season to install some different pass plays in the opening script that they would rep in practice and run in the game. This is when you saw slants and quick stuff mid-season plus Aaron Jones. It worked. Rodgers asked for these plays. It had the advantage of being an unscouted look for the offense.
But it was not a built-in part of the offense. It wasn't installed in the offseason nor practiced in camp. This was not the McCarthy offense and there weren't enough of these to call a whole game based on the few plays added in during the week.
4th quarter scramble drill when way behind. This is normally a clear sign of a team in trouble when their offense only works when it goes off script or with an extended offense or scramble drill. It means the game plan didn't work, you fell behind and the team had to improvise to succeed. This is an important point in the history of the McCarthy offense we will return to.
This is not the McCarthy offense. Its not practiced, installed or drilled in camp.
Rodgers being hurt is a failure of 3 things, pass pro, offensive design and QB execution. So that is a failure on all fronts. But the offense that resulted from them not being willing to risk another hit was remarkable the three times we saw it. Problem is that neither Rodgers nor McCarthy seemed to believe in it. Its not the McCarthy offense and its not Rodgers normal style. They need to be scared to run it.
But its not McCarthy's offense. They don't practice it, do drill it or install it in the offseason. The team cannot call this offense for the entire game, much less the season because its not what the plays in the playbook are designed around.
Do you see what I am getting at? The only offense the worked was when it WASN'T McCarthy's offense. Who was calling the alternate offense? Rodgers in two cases. And in the third case, you had to kneecap the QB to scare the two of them to agree to alter the offense. Absent that, neither wanted any part of it.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
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nursing homes that allow their patients to get online to spread their nonsense during one of their "episodes" pisses me offOriginally posted by texaspackerbacker View PostComment
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If what you are suggesting is true - than McCarthy's offense wasn't working - then I can see why Rodgers got frustrated. And this is probably why McCarthy is no longer employed by GB. I have a feeling a new HC and offensive staff could be just the elixir to get Rodgers back on track.Originally posted by pbmax View PostComment
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OK, the history of McCarthy's offense since the Super Bowl. Answering the question does it no longer work or is Rodgers simply refusing to run it as designed or called?
2011 was remarkable and the team had a boat load of talent on the offensive side. They could score getting off the bus. The talent on the team was unfair.
But 2011 gave a preview of what would plague the Packer O for the rest of McCarthy's tenure. Pass pro with five lineman. To normally send two guys deep and challenge the rest of the field to find single coverage, McCarthy very much preferred to run 5 receiver routes. If necessary because of blitz numbers, he would keep a RB and even the TE in to block. However, the QB was so good and quick, they didn't even need to block the extra guy. Versus Atlanta in 2010, they left the extra edge guy unblocked and then ran the play anyway and trusted Rodgers to avoid the hit.
Remakable, but a bad design and an injury waiting to happen.
Versus KC that year (back then KC was all defense and no offense) the KC front four beat the snot out of the Packer tackles (injuries played a role) and harassed Rodgers all game. Man coverage wide and sometimes underneath gave the D line time to move Rodgers around. This is also the year that Marshmellow Newhouse played a pass rush so bad he allowed Tamba Hali to spin and roll into the back of Derek Sherrod's leg and break it, ruining what certainly would have been an All Pro career at Tackle. but I digress.
We would see this repeated against the NFC West and the Giants for the next 3 years. Harrass the QB with four, stall the Packer offense. Not every team could do it, Rodgers usually led the League in passer rating versus pressure, but if you could do it with the front four, you had a chance.
McCarthy had a partial answer to this, but it wasn't a true schematic change, he went no huddle or hurry up to change the tempo. He would try to counter D pressure by wearing the front four out.
And after one or two false starts (I think he launched this initiative in 2012 but bailed mid season and then relaunched in 2013 to mixed success. In 2014, with Eddie Lacy, it worked and the offense was very good and Rodgers won an MVP.
But after 2014 is where things get interesting.Last edited by pbmax; 01-05-2019, 10:19 AM.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
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Pro Tip: you Google R-E-L-A-X even now and you still get a lot of Frankie Goes to Hollywood results first
2015 saw the year of the great McCarthy-Rodgers offensive slowdown. We might have seen a preview of it in 2014, but its hard to distinguish between no huddle struggles, integrating Eddie Lacy into the offense and the fact that the slowdown last exactly three games. I think they beat the Bears in week 4 to start a win streak.
2015 was bad and the reason most often given was the absence of Jordy Nelson, hurt in the preseason. This was one of the years that a decent job by Capers and the D was lost because of the news on the other side of the ball (12th in points yielded, 15th in yards, DVOA ranked them 9th on D).
On the offensive side, you add the previous disfunction (Lacy was mediocre and so was the running game, susceptibility to four man rush and man coverage) to the new disfunction (lack of all Pro talent at wideout) and you got a preview of 2018 (15th points, 23 in yards and ranked 11th in DVOA)
But the other problem that was clear in 2015 was that the no huddle wasn't really a hurry up. Yes, Rodgers could punish a team for substituting late, but the Packers weren't running huge numbers of plays compared to the rest of the League. So tiring out the defenses pass rush required long drives with many plays, something this offense with Rodgers has never done well.
So to tire out the pass rush, you needed a long drive with a large number of plays AND you had to do it with the base offenses personnel (11 personnel almost always, Lacy, Quarless, Jones, Cobb and Boykin?) because if you subbed, then the defense can sub and the umpire stands on the ball to prevent you from snapping it. McCarthy started out wanting more plays, but what he got instead was less substitution.
This never really worked as a full solution to stopping a good pass rush. What did finally work was Bach getting drafted and Bulaga being healthy. But both of these guys would get hurt at key times and the offense has never had effective solution to this without them healthy.
What did emerge in 2015 was the obvious Rodgers extended play offense. But this version seemed more necessary, planned and obvious. Neither Cobb nor Jones excelled like Adams or Nelson at getting past man coverage quickly and McCarthy usually did not try to scheme them open immediately with bunches or picks or motion. Rodgers alone was good enough that a good pass rush could be negated by him moving in the pocket or bailing left or right to buy time for someone to get open.
But again, this wasn't part of the base offense. It was an addition, not a full offensive scheme. The no huddle never really solved the pass rush problem as the head coach envisioned, it became a limited substitution scheme.
And to ask the QB to play the extended offense for an entire game was madness, like the 2018 adjustments, it couldn't be done. Until the second half of 2016.Last edited by pbmax; 01-05-2019, 11:01 AM.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
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The extended play offense is another invitation (like the unblocked Atlanta pass rusher) to get your QB killed. Its not a good solution to run an offense on when you have a franchise guy back there. Maybe if you are doing the mobile QB (which rodgers was at this point) and had mobile backups you could do it. But with a franchise player being paid like a franchise guy, its crazy. You'd need three guys with the starter being something of a bargain.
However in 2016, run the table, they ran this offense into the playoffs and straight into the NFL Championship game. Had the win streak started a game or two later (or if voters could have seen the Dallas playoff win before voting) Rodgers bags his third MVP this year, but Matt Ryan was too good start to finish and Brady was good enough to siphon away voters not convinced by Matty Noodle Arm.
The run the table offense is also not part of the McCarthy offense. Its not installed in the offseason, drilled in camp or repped in practice during the season. They do talk about it in meetings, but Rodgers doesn't get a practice segment to install it.
in 2017 he gets drilled by Barr and surprisingly, the McCarthy offense stalls with a backup QB. Hmmm. Funny that former first round pick and McCarthy favorite DeShone Kizer didn't look ready for that offense either.
In summation, since the great 2014 offense, all the good offensive play by the Packers has been Rodgers running something OTHER than the McCarthy offense.
And you wonder why he changes the play? You think he is insubordinate? He is the only reason the franchise is afloat on offense.
If McCarthy's offense has the answers, where is your evidence since 2014? Who besides Matt Flynn (who threw all those TDs with Rodgers calling the plays remember?) has McCarthy successfully run his offense with? And outside of one great Detroit game and a gutty performance in NE, was Flynn really that good?
McCarthy, who is a great head coach and formerly a great offensive mind, never fixed his offense after KC, the Giants, SF and Seattle figured out how to stifle it.
Why did McCarthy never respond to Rodgers sniping*? Because his offense didn't work for four years unless Rodgers added to it.
*McCarthy is by all accounts a very nice man as well. He is also a good head coach so he knows public sniping with the QB won't help. He also wants to work again.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
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So what happens now?
I was an early adopter (not close to the first though) that Favre's time with the team was done after he had clearly decided he needed to be the GM as well. Plus the Hamlet routine of contemplating retirement that first appeared in public in 2000/2001 with Peter King at SI MMQB. I hope everyone at this point realizes that Favre's retirement contemplation was a substitute for a trade demand, because he knew a trade demand would play poorly with his public image. He's one of the smartest people to have played the game.
Is Rodgers at this point? I don't think so, but here is the evidence:
He's full tilt diva
1. Mad that Nelson was gone (Jones too in less aggressive way)
2. Mad at his coach publicly
3. Changing plays at line against McCarthy's call
4. Mad at his young receivers
5. Body language
He's frustrated with a scheme that has been eclipsed
1. Still doing press conferences where he actually engages, doesn't filibuster and answers questions about being frosty with his head coach
2. Isn't sniping at the GM (that we know about)
3. Isn't inserting himself into the coaching search (that we know about)
4. Somehow found a way to work with a young WR named Adams
5. Lobbied for the TEs to be used more in the offense (Cook mainly)
6. Lobbied for Jones even though this put Rodgers at more risk
7. Hasn't contemplated retirement or asked for a trade
I am still on the side that believes Rodgers is still part of the team and just wants to win AND believed that the offense had to go. But I do acknowledge that Rodgers on this day, is closer to the Favre model than ever before. We'll see how he reacts to a new coach.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
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Old man yells at cloud!Originally posted by texaspackerbacker View PostBut Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.
-Tim HarmstonComment
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