First Round Pick 2019, Rashan Gary

[bobblehead]

I had Gary as my number 6 edge rusher. My comments on him are just about par with the rest of the speculation. I don't think the Gary is going to kill you. He might not be a double digit sack guy, but I don't think he is going to get steam rolled and lay down and die. He has too good of athleticism to do that. The guy is a physical freak and I don't think he is a weight room work out warrior type guy either.

My question is where do you play him? Where is he the most comfortable and if he is comfortable in a 2 point stance coming off the edge can you play him there full time?

The pick has been made, you all will have to learn to love him and then wait for him to break your heart.

This is also key. Given all the talk around him, the thing that gives me the most optimism is that he has a lot of room to improve his already ridiculous athleticism. The big question will be, did you just draft Giannis, or Ben Simmons. One takes his job seriously, the other thinks he has nothing left to prove.

[mraynrand]

The Gary hate puzzles me. Dude is a junior. I get the concern, just not the hate. Honestly, I'm more concerned about the uncontrollable weeping after the pick. I always worry about guys who appear to think they've arrived when they get selected. We'll know soon enough...

Woodplank will be comparing Gary and Sweat's careers, as I suspect a lot of different fans of various teams will be doing. Football success ultimately boils down to who has the most heart.

[mraynrand]

The guy is a physical freak and I don't think he is a weight room work out warrior type guy either.

No sweat equity!

[Joemailman]

Watching film of Gary, I see him doing things that open up things for others to make plays. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlgfLryOGEgI think that's why Devin Bush talks so highly of him.

I think Pettine will want him to be less of a read and react guy, and be more aggressive. If he can make that adjustment, his athleticism could show up more than it did at Michigan.

[esoxx]

Anybody drinking the Gary Kool Aide ???

Slurp!

[pbmax]

I kind of look at it this way. Look at who we signed at OLB. Physically Gary is built about the same, but much more athletic. Neither of the smiths had the best stats either. Gutes has a type. Gary fits it. Someone put the ht/weight of both smiths and Gary in a thread somewhere...might even be this one. Very close. As I have been saying. If you are as true to your convictions as Gutes seems to be....you better be right. TT usually was. Gutes better be.

I think Pettine has a type and Gutes has decided after bad fits and scheme mismatches between Ted and Dom, he is going another way. Could also be Murphy insisting on taking the coaches shopping list seriously.

I too am worried mainly because Nutz is worried (tape) and Fritz is worried (he's not joking, he has watched Michigan and he was right about Jerel W) and the well established lack of 2018 production. I get the traits but can't see this as a value pick.

But here is the idea that I will latch onto when I launch a 2020 thread about Gary not being a bust yet.

Pass rush has to be more than a one person game. With Clay at his prime, he needed help from people either collapsing the pocket or moving the QB off his mark. You have to. Even Von Miller benefits when the middle of the pocket is muddled. Clay was best when either Raji, Jenkins, Howard Green or Perry were being pests or getting him one on one somewhere while moving.

Forget the 1st round double digit sack guy target. If he is steady against the run (PFF said he improved each year) and can provide some push and move the pocket or QB, it will help. 6-8 sacks and a boatload of hits or pressures with 2 other guys doing the same will work. Packers problem last year was not sack totals, it was consistent pressure. I think this guy's numbers for pressures looks much better than his sack total.

[Fritz]

Yeah, I watched some of Gary's work. Good luck finding any highlights of him in big games.

Green Bay needs playmakers, not guys who eat blockers for other guys (they have undrafted guys who can do that), or guys who almost get there, or guys who can jump really high and lift a lot of weight but can't sack the quarterback.

At that moment in the draft, only one offensive lineman had been selected. Gutekunst had his choice of top, top tackles to protect his franchise QB. He had Burns sitting there. That Clemson d-lineman, can't remember his name. And Sweat, who was downgraded because his production wasn't so great, yet produced more than Gary. Gutekunst maybe could've traded down, still gotten a premier player.

But no. He picks a guy who has freakish combine numbers, which, if you won games for having great combine numbers, would be great. But you win with players who make plays. Gary doesn't make plays. Period. I like Chase Winovich better than Gary - you could pick him up later in the draft and have a better football player.

And now we find out that the Packers are going to try to turn him into an OLB. The first articles on JSO were listing Gary as a DE; suddenly, this morning, he's listed as OLB. Great. Wonderful. Another project - and you spent the twelfth overall pick on that?

In one sense, you know who he reminds me of? BJ Raji. And the similarity is that both are smart dudes who are thinking in terms of career. Gary, like Raji, is not a guy who loves, loves, loves football. Gary is not Chase Winovich. Or Devin Bush. He doesn't eat, sleep, dream football. He sees it as a business, as a way to make a lot of money. I would not be surprised, at all, if he pulls a Raji and retires at a young age. Especially once it becomes clear he's not going to develop into JJ Watt, but instead will be the next Mike Neal or Dante Jones.

Of course I'd love to be wrong. Because I want the Packers to win. I'd love for Gary to be great. But I think he will not be, not even close.

I think Gutekunst has taken two very big gambles in this first round. If Savage does not turn out to be head-and-shoulders above Thornhill, Adderly, and Gardner-Thompson, then it's a botched pick along the lines of Jason Spriggs.

Gute better be right on these, or if not, he'd better find a David Bahktieri or Mike Daniels in the fourth round to make up for it. Oh, wait. He doesn't have any fourth round picks. He traded not one, but two, away.

Huge, huge gambles. Do I hope they pay off? Of course. Do I think they will? Gary, no way. Savage, I don't know enough to even say, though I don't like Gute seeming to panic and moving up like he did. Savage was an expensive acquisition.

[Deputy Nutz]

Gary got a 9 on his Wonderlic.

[Fritz]

Listen to the guy talk. He's pretty articulate. He sees this not as his passion; it's a career, a tool he can use to get wealth. And I don't blame him for that. But it's a trait that can keep a player from playing for a long time because they're conscious of the deleterious effects the game has on the player's health. That's what happened to Raji, and I would not be surprised if Gary has already mapped out a business plan for after football. That's great for him as an individual, but it won't make him likely to sacrifice his body for the good of the cause. I think that's why Clinton-Dix didn't want to stick his nose into plays - he knows the risks.

Nutz, you said, I think, that you had him rated as the sixth best pass rusher? I'm assuming the five in front of him were not all drafted by the #12 pick, right?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good call by Nutz on Ferrell. Nutz had Burns higher, but I'm not sure he has the size that Pettine likes at OLB. He also had Sweat higher, but we have no idea how the whole heart condition played into his fall.

[Fritz]

From what I'm reading, Harv, it's not the heart thing that dropped Sweat, it was "character concerns." Personally, I think maybe this team could use a slightly psycho dude. But then again, maybe it's so bad the Packers didn't want to deal with possible outside repercussions. Not sure.

[Carolina_Packer]

I wonder if there is a way to research how teams typically game planned for Gary. What were the percentages of one on ones, double teams, etc. Some guys don't have gaudy stats, but they free up other guys to make plays because of the disruption they cause. I don't know if that's charitable, but it might possibly explain some of his perceived lack of production.

[mraynrand]

Good call by Nutz on Ferrell. Nutz had Burns higher, but I'm not sure he has the size that Pettine likes at OLB. He also had Sweat higher, but we have no idea how the whole heart condition played into his fall.

There was some report that his "heart wall was actually thicker" than originally believed. I have no idea what these team people are looking at; almost wonder if the whole thing wasn't concocted by someone trying to get him to drop.

[Fritz]

I wonder if there is a way to research how teams typically game planned for Gary. What were the percentages of one on ones, double teams, etc. Some guys don't have gaudy stats, but they free up other guys to make plays because of the disruption they cause. I don't know if that's charitable, but it might possibly explain some of his perceived lack of production.

That is charitable. Do you really draft a guy #12 overall because he can eat up blockers? Man, the Packers already have some undrafted guys who seem pretty capable of that, don't they? Couldn't you do better with the #12 overall pick than that? This pick is very . . . AJ Hawkish. And that's being charitable.

[jklowan]

Or those hubbel glasses he was wearing, maybe the dude just needed glasses last year and his problems were due to poor vision