Putting The Blame Where It Belongs

[Packnut]

I was afraid to spend my usual few hours this a.m. surfing all the Packer sites for fear of reading some of the same stuff that has been here. I was terrified to think I was gonna read all the excuses about giving TT time and the young players need to grow and the rest of all that garbage.

However, the Packer world seem's to be united in putting the blame where it belongs-right on TT's head. Where as before, I was worried TT's window of opportunity was huge, I now can see it shrinking.

For those of you who continue to keep the blinders on, I would offer you up these points to consider. I realize not everyone has the Sunday ticket plan and you have nothing to compare our team to but I watched parts of every game. As an organization, I would say the Lions have been equally inept as we have been, yet yesterday I saw a team filled with heart and desire. They gave the Seahawks everything they could handle and their run D was amazing. Yet they basically have the same players as last season. They would be a dangerous team if they had a QB. A coach can make a difference.

Now let's look at the Saints offensive scheme. Very impressive to say the least. Take away Bush and talent wise our offense should be better than theirs, yet the play-calling made Brees look good. They ran out of a myriad of different formations with motion. They attacked and were aggressive.

These are only a few examples and believe me I could give many more. Would anyone really dispute the inept playcalling we saw yesterday. MM's offensive game-plan makes Sherman look like Bill Walsh. Was there any imagination what-so-ever?

Now some of you have stated I'm over-reacting and the team need's time to grow. Well, Poppinga let one of the worst TE's in football rip him a new one. Now do you think that is magically gonna change? He's gonna see a lot better TE's down the line and it's obvious to everyone except our coaching staff that he can't cover. Speaking of not covering, our secondary was toasted by one of the most inept offenses around. Do any of you see that changing with much better offenses coming in down the road?

There are so many more specific examples I can give but it would be re-dundant. We have problems that time and "growing" are not gonna fix. We are so far behind the rest of the league scheme wise on both sides of the ball that it's down-right laughable.

I feel much better today cause I honestly believe TT won't be here after next season. The great majority of the Packer fan base see's the obvious that we have the most inept GM in the league. The heat on the Packer board of dir. is already forming. After the Saints beat us next week, I think many of the TT's backers are gonna stop and realize that just may-be their support of TT is a huge mistake. Together we can make a difference. It's not hopeless my friends. Scream loud enough and someone will hear!

[jack's smirking revenge]

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'll wait until the end of next year to judge Thompson. Yes, the end of next year. You have to give a GM three years to evaluate them. By then, all of these young guys will be hitting their stride, and we'll see what the team looks like.

BTW, Cleveland's defense vs. Chicago's defense = HUGE difference

[Rastak]

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

Shermistakes....LOL....you should patent that Jack.

[ZachMN]

I agree, there seems to be nothing but confusion on the field- It looked like the Packers had never played together yesterday. I have felt that the scouting needs to be blown up because every other team seems to find guys who out hustle, out jump, just flat out care more. We seem to get the leftovers or those who "might" be something. Its just me venting but this has gone on for a few years. We seem to be lethargic every time I watch a game.


The only guy on the Packers with any heart left is Donald Driver. We need 52 other guys that play like him.

[Scott Campbell]

That kind of loss is bound to bring out all the "Fire Thompson" threads. It just comes witht the territory. As a matter of fact, I think I'd like to punch him myself this morning.

[Patler]

Personally, considering the competition, I think the Packers looked better yesterday against the bears than they did in the opener last year against the Lions.

[Packnut]

TT

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

This belief that we will get better is unfounded. I would ask how? Let's take the specific examle of Poppinga. He was DESTROYED by what everyone considers to be a weak TE. How is that gonna get better? I think it was obvious to anyone watching that Manuel is'nt a starter. He's just not talented enough. How is that gonna change? Clearly Al's better days are behind him and Woodson is laughing all the way to the bank. Now any reasonable coaching staff would see we don't have the talent to man up and devise a zone scheme better to fit our players.

I wish I could see where the improvment will come from. We've all seen enough of Rodgers to know that while he might turn into an above avg. QB, he is'nt gonna be a great one. He will need plenty of talent and where will it come from? You have to be able to look down the road.

[Packnut]

Driver

I agree, there seems to be nothing but confusion on the field- It looked like the Packers had never played together yesterday. I have felt that the scouting needs to be blown up because every other team seems to find guys who out hustle, out jump, just flat out care more. We seem to get the leftovers or those who "might" be something. Its just me venting but this has gone on for a few years. We seem to be lethargic every time I watch a game.


The only guy on the Packers with any heart left is Donald Driver. We need 52 other guys that play like him.

You would think that a great deal of our gameplan would have been built around DD now would'nt ya? Sadly our best player is nothing but an after-thought to MM.

[Packnut]

Loss

That kind of loss is bound to bring out all the "Fire Thompson" threads. It just comes witht the territory. As a matter of fact, I think I'd like to punch him myself this morning.

This loss has little to do with it. This is about all the player mistakes he has made. This is about bringing in Manuel and Woodson and the money spent on them. This is about bringing in a HC that most everyone agrees is in over his head. This is about totally ignoring our offensive line need's and that mistake was made LAST YEAR. This is about Gado and Herron returning kicks and being Green's back-up when they would'nt make anyone else's roster. This is about bringing in 2 untried kickers and hoping that experience will make them better. These are just a few examples and there are several more. No, this is'nt about yesterday. this is about a GM who has made SEVERAL mistakes. This is about a GM who does'nt have the brains or ability to run the team we all love.........

[jack's smirking revenge]

Re: TT

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

This belief that we will get better is unfounded. I would ask how? Let's take the specific examle of Poppinga. He was DESTROYED by what everyone considers to be a weak TE. How is that gonna get better? I think it was obvious to anyone watching that Manuel is'nt a starter. He's just not talented enough. How is that gonna change? Clearly Al's better days are behind him and Woodson is laughing all the way to the bank. Now any reasonable coaching staff would see we don't have the talent to man up and devise a zone scheme better to fit our players.

I wish I could see where the improvment will come from. We've all seen enough of Rodgers to know that while he might turn into an above avg. QB, he is'nt gonna be a great one. He will need plenty of talent and where will it come from? You have to be able to look down the road.

Hey, I'm trying out a new thing--it's called "optimism". I'm not suggesting that you try it too, because optimism clearly isn't for everyone. And maybe I'm just being delusional with my statement that "we're going to get better". Perhaps, a more accurate way of stating it is "we are going to LOOK better". Like you Packernut, I see problems all over the place. We lack depth in so many areas....O-line, D-line, secondary (I'm really worried about this one, especially after making Grossman look like the 2nd coming of Montana), WR corps, RB corps, just to name a few....that I have to hope that some of our players will evolve into talent, instead of remaining "potentials".

Here's where I am founded in my comment: every single player that makes a starting team in the NFL is a "professional". Thus, they have shown the talent and the ability to play the game at a high level. They're not morons and they're not laypeople like you and I. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they can learn and evolve. The curve is better the younger the player is. With Woodson and Harris, evolution is probably out of the question since they're past the bell curve of their prime. They're like old dogs that can't learn new tricks and stick to what they know best. The key is getting the young players on the team to evolve faster, if there truly is skill to unlock.

Honestly, I think Spitz, Colledge and Moll will be good lineman. It'll take some time, but I think they'll get there. I think Collins, Blackmon and Culver can probably be/continue to be quality starters with experience. I think our LB corps is solid and will continue to get better. Our TEs showed some flashes yesterday and so did Jennings, though he got frustrated by drops in a blowout.

My center: 2007. The evolution of players this year will lead to a much more successful one next. Too many "young" pieces in this picture--young coaching staff, young schemes, young players....

tyler

[Packnut]

Re: TT

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

This belief that we will get better is unfounded. I would ask how? Let's take the specific examle of Poppinga. He was DESTROYED by what everyone considers to be a weak TE. How is that gonna get better? I think it was obvious to anyone watching that Manuel is'nt a starter. He's just not talented enough. How is that gonna change? Clearly Al's better days are behind him and Woodson is laughing all the way to the bank. Now any reasonable coaching staff would see we don't have the talent to man up and devise a zone scheme better to fit our players.

I wish I could see where the improvment will come from. We've all seen enough of Rodgers to know that while he might turn into an above avg. QB, he is'nt gonna be a great one. He will need plenty of talent and where will it come from? You have to be able to look down the road.

Hey, I'm trying out a new thing--it's called "optimism". I'm not suggesting that you try it too, because optimism clearly isn't for everyone. And maybe I'm just being delusional with my statement that "we're going to get better". Perhaps, a more accurate way of stating it is "we are going to LOOK better". Like you Packernut, I see problems all over the place. We lack depth in so many areas....O-line, D-line, secondary (I'm really worried about this one, especially after making Grossman look like the 2nd coming of Montana), WR corps, RB corps, just to name a few....that I have to hope that some of our players will evolve into talent, instead of remaining "potentials".

Here's where I am founded in my comment: every single player that makes a starting team in the NFL is a "professional". Thus, they have shown the talent and the ability to play the game at a high level. They're not morons and they're not laypeople like you and I. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they can learn and evolve. The curve is better the younger the player is. With Woodson and Harris, evolution is probably out of the question since they're past the bell curve of their prime. They're like old dogs that can't learn new tricks and stick to what they know best. The key is getting the young players on the team to evolve faster, if there truly is skill to unlock.

Honestly, I think Spitz, Colledge and Moll will be good lineman. It'll take some time, but I think they'll get there. I think Collins, Blackmon and Culver can probably be/continue to be quality starters with experience. I think our LB corps is solid and will continue to get better. Our TEs showed some flashes yesterday and so did Jennings, though he got frustrated by drops in a blowout.

My center: 2007. The evolution of players this year will lead to a much more successful one next. Too many "young" pieces in this picture--young coaching staff, young schemes, young players....

tyler

I respect your opinion and admire you optimism.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Interesting perspective, but I don't agree with you. Not yet. TT's had two offseasons to turn around years of Shermistakes. The Super Bowl won't happen overnight.

Are they a bad team right now? Yes they are.

Are they going to get better? Yes they are.

Now, something I can't defend is coaching decisions. If TT goes, so will McCarthy and probably the rest of his staff. McCarthy was the one who assembled his staff, right?

You want to talk about rebuilding? Do you really want to tear down the whole management structure (GM and coaching staff) and start over? I'm not sure if that would solve all of the problems we saw yesterday...

tyler

Shermistakes....LOL....you should patent that Jack.

Thanks Rastak! I'll work on it.

tyler

[RashanGary]

I think Harvy's time table is realistic. The end of next year, we should have a good idea of what we have and where we are going.

Right now says nothing. NE had off years. Pittsburgh has had off years. Every team does. People freaking out and calling the GM incompitent after 1 or even 2 down years completely lack understanding of the NFL as a whole combined with negative effect that 4 consecutive horrible drafts has on an organization. Sherman killed the Packers. Now how long will it take to rebuild? 1 or 2 years isn't enough to cover for 4 players who succeeded out of 4 entire years worth of draft picks.

[Packnut]

Understanding

I think Harvy's time table is realistic. The end of next year, we should have a good idea of what we have and where we are going.

Right now says nothing. NE had off years. Pittsburgh has had off years. Every team does. People freaking out and calling the GM incompitent after 1 or even 2 down years completely lack understanding of the NFL as a whole combined with negative effect that 4 consecutive horrible drafts has on an organization. Sherman killed the Packers. Now how long will it take to rebuild? 1 or 2 years isn't enough to cover for 4 players who succeeded out of 4 entire years worth of draft picks.

People who continue using Sherman's failures as an excuse for the mistakes TT has made also have no understanding of the NFL.