Putting The Blame Where It Belongs

[jack's smirking revenge]

Re: TT

I respect your opinion and admire you optimism.

Packnut you don't know what the f@ck you're talk.....Huh? What? You don't want to drag this out and argue and debate? Nice response. Not what I was expecting at all.



I'm as broken as you are about yesterday, but part of me has already given in for 2006. If we get trounced by the best team in our division and our arch-rivals in embarrassing fashion, we can't really expect the ultimate prize in 2006, can we?

tyler

[jack's smirking revenge]

Re: Understanding

I think Harvy's time table is realistic. The end of next year, we should have a good idea of what we have and where we are going.

Right now says nothing. NE had off years. Pittsburgh has had off years. Every team does. People freaking out and calling the GM incompitent after 1 or even 2 down years completely lack understanding of the NFL as a whole combined with negative effect that 4 consecutive horrible drafts has on an organization. Sherman killed the Packers. Now how long will it take to rebuild? 1 or 2 years isn't enough to cover for 4 players who succeeded out of 4 entire years worth of draft picks.

People who continue using Sherman's failures as an excuse for the mistakes TT has made also have no understanding of the NFL.

I don't think anyone would argue that TT's been perfect. GMs make mistakes. They have to in order to have successes. Player scouting and acquisition is a calculated gamble; sometimes the players you get through draft or FA work out, sometimes they don't. Coach hiring is a lot less of a gamble and I wonder if TT assembled the right staff to get the job done. Even Wolf had failures. Sherman had a large amount of failures. I blame him for a fair amount of our current problems, but I'm starting to enter the realm of questioning TT's moves too. I love his concept of building through the draft, but I am starting to wonder if he's done everything he could in FA too. I'm willing to be patient for one more year, let the youth develop.

But next year, if TTdoesn't have this thing turned around, I'll start to be A LOT more critical.

tyler

[Guiness]

You know what I've seen very little mention of, and I think is as big a problem as anything???

Kurt Schottenheimer. The secondary played awful. He was run out of town by Sherman, who didn't run anyone out of town! Now he's back, and the DB's are running around like they have no clue what's going on.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Guiness,

I agree. That's the coach I most question. I'm also wondering about Bob Sanders, but we'll see. I thought the offensive game planning (Jags/McCarthy) was more impressive than the defensive game planning (Sanders)--despite the shutout.

[jack's smirking revenge]

You know what I've seen very little mention of, and I think is as big a problem as anything???

Kurt Schottenheimer. The secondary played awful. He was run out of town by Sherman, who didn't run anyone out of town! Now he's back, and the DB's are running around like they have no clue what's going on.

VERY good point. I forgot about Schittenhemier.

tyler

[Patler]

Re: Understanding

I think Harvy's time table is realistic. The end of next year, we should have a good idea of what we have and where we are going.

Right now says nothing. NE had off years. Pittsburgh has had off years. Every team does. People freaking out and calling the GM incompitent after 1 or even 2 down years completely lack understanding of the NFL as a whole combined with negative effect that 4 consecutive horrible drafts has on an organization. Sherman killed the Packers. Now how long will it take to rebuild? 1 or 2 years isn't enough to cover for 4 players who succeeded out of 4 entire years worth of draft picks.

People who continue using Sherman's failures as an excuse for the mistakes TT has made also have no understanding of the NFL.

And people who refuse to recognize the long term effects of Shermans mistakes as a GM also do not understand the NFL. A roster is a living thing. It needs to be nurtured continually. When you starve it of its needed nutrients for three years, there are long-lasting effects.

[Joemailman]

Guiness,

I agree. That's the coach I most question. I'm also wondering about Bob Sanders, but we'll see. I thought the offensive game planning (Jags/McCarthy) was more impressive than the defensive game planning (Sanders)--despite the shutout.

Im just wondering about something Harvey. Do you think it made sense to have Favre throw the ball only 5 times in the 1st half, or do you think there would have been more passing if we had extended drives by converting on 3rd down?

[Patler]

You know what I've seen very little mention of, and I think is as big a problem as anything???

Kurt Schottenheimer. The secondary played awful. He was run out of town by Sherman, who didn't run anyone out of town! Now he's back, and the DB's are running around like they have no clue what's going on.

VERY good point. I forgot about Schittenhemier.

tyler

I'm glad you mentioned it! I meant to last night. I thought about it in the first quarter when the DBs showed the same kind of confusion that we saw in 2004. That was the one Assistant Coach hiring that almost turned my stomach, but I said to myself the problem may have been Slowik in 2004, not Schottenheimer.

But all those bad feelings came back with the long pass plays and the DBs looking at each other trying to figure out who screwed up yesterday, at least early in the game.

[Fritz]

Patler -

As you are probably aware, I'm a supporter of TT, but I too questioned the hiring of Schottenheimer, and cringed when I saw Marquand and Harris shrugging and pointing after the early touchdown.

I don't understand that hiring, at all.

BTW, I don't see Sherman as someone who was hesitant to fire assistants. He ditched a few in his time.

[Patler]

Im just wondering about something Harvey. Do you think it made sense to have Favre throw the ball only 5 times in the 1st half, or do you think there would have been more passing if we had extended drives by converting on 3rd down?

Joe, I'm not Harvey, but I'll comment anyway!

It wasn't as unbalanced as it looks. Favre had 5 attempts, but he also had 3 sacks in the first half. So that was 8 passing plays called (not counting the fake punt!) On the other hand, only 11 running plays were called. One was the QB sneak on 4th down and two others were 3rd downs with less than a yard to go. So on actual plays with reasonable pass/run options it was not that unbalanced at all.

Besides, when you run less than 20 plays its hard to have any kind of balance!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Im just wondering about something Harvey. Do you think it made sense to have Favre throw the ball only 5 times in the 1st half, or do you think there would have been more passing if we had extended drives by converting on 3rd down?

We tried to pass 8 times (5 passes and 3 sacks) and Ahman ran the ball 10 times in the first half, so we were definitely more run oriented in the first half, but I don't think it was a bad strategy. It was getting us into 3rd and short situations. A combination of bad execution (a couple of 3rd and 1 runs weren't blocked well enough) and bad luck (Wells stepping on Favre's foot and the QB sneak) stopped us from converting those and sustaining drives. I'll never complain about running it on 3rd and 1 with a guy like Ahman Green in the backfield though.

I think there would have been more passing if we could have sustained drives--because the running game likely would have opened up the passing game a bit.

[woodbuck27]

Guiness,

I agree. That's the coach I most question. I'm also wondering about Bob Sanders, but we'll see. I thought the offensive game planning (Jags/McCarthy) was more impressive than the defensive game planning (Sanders)--despite the shutout.

Im just wondering about something Harvey. Do you think it made sense to have Favre throw the ball only 5 times in the 1st half, or do you think there would have been more passing if we had extended drives by converting on 3rd down?

Yes.

Brett Favre was 5/5 and . .70 yards passing at the half ! Five pass's and of those two completed to Batman ( A. Green ), for a total of 18 yards.

First series DOWN 7-0. Three runs by A.Green = 3 and out and remainder of plays: (note: ** = PASS PLAYS)

CHI 7 GB 0, Plays: 6 Yards: 78 Possession: 2:55.

Chicago Bears at 12:05

R.Gould kicks 69 yards from CHI 30 to GB 1. S.Gado to GB 17 for 16 yards (J.Williams).

Green Bay Packers at 12:00

1-10-GB17 (12:00) A.Green right guard to GB 20 for 3 yards (L.Briggs).

2-7-GB20 (11:26) A.Green right guard to GB 26 for 6 yards (M.Brown).

3-1-GB26 (10:59) A.Green left tackle to GB 26 for no gain (L.Briggs).

4-1-GB26 (10:24) J.Ryan punts 45 yards to CHI 29, Center-R.Davis. D.Hester to CHI 27 for -2 yards (A.Carroll).


Second Series -First half (Score still. . . Bears 7 Packers 0 )

Green Bay Packers at 05:02

** 1-10-GB20 (5:02) B.Favre pass deep right to D.Driver to GB 37 for 17 yards (C.Harris).

1-10-GB37 (4:34) A.Green up the middle to GB 40 for 3 yards (L.Briggs, T.Johnson).

2-7-GB40 (3:59) A.Green left end to GB 44 for 4 yards (A.Ogunleye).

3-3-GB44 (3:21) B.Favre sacked at GB 40 for -4 yards (L.Briggs).

4-7-GB40 (3:04) (Punt formation)

PENALTY on GB-A.Carroll, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at GB 40 - No Play.

4-12-GB35 (2:56) J.Ryan punts 43 yards to CHI 22, Center-R.Davis. D.Hester to CHI 26 for 4 yards (B.Taylor, A.Carroll).

PENALTY on CHI-A.Peterson, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at CHI 26.


Third Series - First Half

CHI 10 GB 0, Plays: 9 Yards: 62 Possession: 4:03.

Chicago Bears at 13:44

R.Gould kicks 66 yards from CHI 30 to GB 4. S.Gado to GB 22 for 18 yards (A.Peterson).

Green Bay Packers at 13:39

**1-10-GB22 (13:39) B.Favre pass deep middle to D.Lee to GB 47 for 25 yards (B.Urlacher, C.Harris).

1-10-GB47 (13:13) A.Green up the middle to CHI 46 for 7 yards (T.Johnson).

2-3-CHI46 (12:33) A.Green left guard to CHI 44 for 2 yards (C.Tillman).

3-1-CHI44 (11:54) A.Green right tackle to CHI 44 for no gain (T.Harris).

4-1-CHI44 (11:16) B.Favre up the middle to CHI 44 for no gain (A.Ogunleye). Yard marker changed due to change of possession.

That was where M3 needed to at least make some fuss !! He placed the game in the hands of the officials from that point, placed OUR Team at their mercy. NOT GOOD !

4th series First Half:

CHI 16 GB 0, Plays: 4 Yards: 6 Possession: 1:45.


Chicago Bears at 04:38
R.Gould kicks 61 yards from CHI 30 to GB 9. R.Ferguson to GB 25 for 16 yards (R.Manning).

Green Bay Packers at 04:31

1-10-GB25 (4:31) A.Green left end to GB 39 for 14 yards (M.Brown).

1-10-GB39 (3:51) B.Favre sacked at GB 32 for -7 yards (M.Anderson).

2-17-GB32 (3:17) A.Green left tackle to GB 32 for no gain (Ta.Johnson, M.Anderson).

** 3-17-GB32 (2:40) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass short middle to A.Green to GB 45 for 13 yards (H.Hillenmeyer, C.Harris).

4-4-GB45 (2:04) (Punt formation) J.Ryan pass short right to N.Herron to CHI 39 for 16 yards (A.Peterson).

1-10-CHI39 (1:57) B.Favre sacked at CHI 50 for -11 yards (A.Brown).

** 2-21-50 (1:18) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass short right to A.Green to CHI 45 for 5 yards (B.Urlacher).

** 3-16-CHI45 (:40) (Shotgun) B.Favre pass short left to R.Ferguson to CHI 35 for 10 yards (N.Vasher).

4-6-CHI35 (:04) D.Rayner 53 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-R.Davis, Holder-J.Ryan.

END OF FIRST HALF

CHI 16 - GB 0,


What was that??

Also we were NOT exactly running the ball very well in the first half. Ahman Green, rushing for 39 of his 110 yards.

[woodbuck27]

Im just wondering about something Harvey. Do you think it made sense to have Favre throw the ball only 5 times in the 1st half, or do you think there would have been more passing if we had extended drives by converting on 3rd down?

We tried to pass 8 times (5 passes and 3 sacks) and Ahman ran the ball 10 times in the first half, so we were definitely more run oriented in the first half, but I don't think it was a bad strategy. It was getting us into 3rd and short situations. A combination of bad execution (a couple of 3rd and 1 runs weren't blocked well enough) and bad luck (Wells stepping on Favre's foot and the QB sneak) stopped us from converting those and sustaining drives. I'll never complain about running it on 3rd and 1 with a guy like Ahman Green in the backfield though.

I think there would have been more passing if we could have sustained drives--because the running game likely would have opened up the passing game a bit.

A little thing ,then another little thing . .then another untill the BEARs got out there> 2 TD's

Little miscucues

Three sacks. . .

Patience not to try for 4th and short in first series - correctly punting ...

Then later. . .in third series and down 10-0 . . try a 4th and short to no avail. . . after. . . possibly getting a bad spot. . . but no fuss from OUR Head coach?

Never getting any timing down...no play flow.

SCORE GOES TO Bears 19 and Packers ZERO with just under 2 minutes remaing in the 3rd Quarter.

Then it goes really from bad to worse.

We stunk and we'll have to recover.

END of STORY !!

GO PACKERS ! FAN FAITH ! Laugh away GregJennings.

[MJZiggy]

I'm not going to argue with the premise of your post, but wanted you to know that M3 was asked about not challenging that 4th-and-inches spot and he said that he didn't have enough information on the sidelines to challenge it. So I wanna know, who is responsible up in the booth for getting a good look at it and telling him it might be worth challenging? I mean he challenged the obvious fumble for the hell of it, why not this which was much closer?

[FritzDontBlitz]

Re: Loss

That kind of loss is bound to bring out all the "Fire Thompson" threads. It just comes witht the territory. As a matter of fact, I think I'd like to punch him myself this morning.

This loss has little to do with it. This is about all the player mistakes he has made. This is about bringing in Manuel and Woodson and the money spent on them. This is about bringing in a HC that most everyone agrees is in over his head. This is about totally ignoring our offensive line need's and that mistake was made LAST YEAR. This is about Gado and Herron returning kicks and being Green's back-up when they would'nt make anyone else's roster. This is about bringing in 2 untried kickers and hoping that experience will make them better. These are just a few examples and there are several more. No, this is'nt about yesterday. this is about a GM who has made SEVERAL mistakes. This is about a GM who does'nt have the brains or ability to run the team we all love.........

this is about pushing the panic button after one game.