Rodgers 2020 MVP campaign!

[Upnorth]

So if it's not what you listed, I assume you mean Brady manages his headspace better in big games?

I'd be curious to see if there's a statistical break-down of that somewhere.

I don't disagree, I just think Rodgers is a better QB, but my sample is biased.

Someone here, I think it was Harv or Joe did a breakdown showing how much better NE's defense has been during Brady's career compared to GB's during Rodgers career. That's kind of put this kind of question into the 'push' category for me.

Football perspectives is a great analytics site that did a brady manning brees team support comparision and brady had the most support in at least the defensive and special teams phases. I believe also for offense but I might be wrong there

[RashanGary]

New England has always sort of played experienced guys. Their own and other teams cast offs. But experienced football players. Even still, after Brady, that’s a well coached and experienced team that they put on the field. Rodgers excels with those types too. He can do more with Jamaal Williams than Jace Stergberger, regardless of pure physical talent.

Gute seems to be leaning that way too. I like that a little better than constantly starting over with new green players. You can over invest in development and I think the Packers usually have. The practice squad and last couple spots, sure, but to start rookies and underdeveloped second year guys, I’m not a big fan

[bobblehead]

In a big game, I would take Brady in a heartbeat over Rodgers, and it has nothing to do with stats, arm talent, etc.

Have to disagree. There was a time I felt this way, but to be honest, the main difference between the 2 guys is the defenses they got to play with. And the head coach. A few years back someone posted a comparison of their playoff games. The number of times Brady had his defense hold teams to under 20 is a damn joke. Rodgers actually has been the better QB overall. Don't misunderstand me, I will still knock him for a handful of playoff stinkers he put forth, but again, the difference in results is coaching and Defense.

[Upnorth]

McCarthy had a front runners system where as hoody genius has a grind it out system (which Lafluer has similarities to). I think it is obvious which works better in a close game. How many game winning drives did rodgers have pre 2019? 20. In 2019 and 2020? 4.
1.25 seasons he has 20 percent of what he achieved in 10 years. Small sample size but i think the evidence speaks for itself.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Packers defense has given up 36.4 ppg in ARod's 8 playoff losses.
Patriots defense has given up 27.1 ppg in Brady's 11 playoff losses, 23.9 ppg overall in 41 games.

In Brady's first three Super Bowl runs, New England's defense gave up 13, 17, 17, 14, 14, 29, 3, 27, 21 points. Because of the weak AFC East, New England had the #1 seed three times and the #2 seed three times in the six Super Bowl runs. The only time the Packers had the #1 overall seed, the defense gave up 37 points to the Giants.

You almost have to rank Brady over Rodgers though. It's a combination of stats and team success. If Rodgers notched another Super Bowl title or two, then it gets interesting.

[George Cumby]

There you go.

Thanks, Harv.

[texaspackerbacker]

Packers defense has given up 36.4 ppg in ARod's 8 playoff losses.
Patriots defense has given up 27.1 ppg in Brady's 11 playoff losses, 23.9 ppg overall in 41 games.

In Brady's first three Super Bowl runs, New England's defense gave up 13, 17, 17, 14, 14, 29, 3, 27, 21 points. Because of the weak AFC East, New England had the #1 seed three times and the #2 seed three times in the six Super Bowl runs. The only time the Packers had the #1 overall seed, the defense gave up 37 points to the Giants.

You almost have to rank Brady over Rodgers though. It's a combination of stats and team success. If Rodgers notched another Super Bowl title or two, then it gets interesting.

Excellent recitation of the facts and stats; Your conclusion, however, is flawed. Who is the MVP/who is the GOAT is a strictly individual thing. Rodgers' individual performance over the years has been consistently better than Brady's or anybody else's. Hopefully Rodgers and the Packers will get those additional Super Bowl titles in the coming years like we all want.

[Upnorth]

Wins are a team stat. It really bugs me how people attribute sb to the qb. Like manning was the reason the giants won in 07 or 11. Thats like saying he was a bettee qb than Brady and rodgers. Give me a break.

[Patler]

It's never simple in these types of discussions. Points for, points against are meaningless, because the number of possessions can change so much. Not saying Rodgers has played with great defenses, but I think many were not nearly as bad as their average "points against" might lead one to believe. As some have alluded to, McCarthy and Rodgers when they were at their best would fly up and down the field. The Packers offense didn't keep their defense off the field for long even when they were scoring touchdowns. Other teams had to open up their offenses to try and keep up. Lots of points for both teams were inevitable.

Some very good athletes play at their average or expected performance consistently, others "averages" are achieved with very high highs and very low lows. Both Rodgers and Brady have been consistent performers; so, for me, the distinction is even more subtle than that

I have always said that the amazing thing about Bart Starr was high much he rose to the occasion in the biggest moments of the biggest games. Sure, Unitas was a "better" QB, but if I had to pick a QB to engineer a winning drive in their era, it would have been Starr. Especially in the years of their three-peat, when the team was getting old with many players already replaced, Starr was the key to their success. After the Ice Bowl, many players talked about how calm their huddles were during the winning drive. They knew they would score, because Bart Starr would not allow them to fail. No panic, just reasolve.

As for Brady vs Rodgers, to be perfectly honest I have not actually watched all that many of Brady's playoff games to really know. I made the bold and forceful choice of him over Rodgers to rile things up a bit as much as anything. However, I have seen all of the Packer playoff games, and there were a lot of them in which I thought a GOAT should have made plays that Rodgers did not. Not that he had terrible games, but when winning or losing comes down to just a handful of plays, the GOAT has to make them. Like when he missed the wide open Jennings running behind the Arizona defense in overtime ......

As much feeling as analysis in my selection.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Tom Brady with a career 89.8 passer rating in 41 playoff games.
Aaron Rodgers with a career 100.0 passer rating in 19 playoff games.

Brady certainly has had more big moments in the playoffs, but part of that is Hoody Genius and part of it is his defense has kept him in games (plenty when he hasn't played particularly well). I still give the edge to Brady because championships factor into this, like it or not. It's hard to argue 6 vs 1. I think Rodgers at his best is better than Brady. Rodgers at his best can do all that Brady can + things that Brady can't (arm strength/scrambling). If Rodgers won 1 or 2 Super Bowls, you could make a better argument -- like arguing Elway vs. Montana.

[HarveyWallbangers]

there were a lot of them in which I thought a GOAT should have made plays that Rodgers did not.

In my mind that describes Brett Favre more than Aaron Rodgers. Favre cost the Packers playoff victories. I think the losses with Rodgers are more on the players around him.

Brady missed plenty of receivers over the years, but nobody notices when you win. Brady played lousy in several games that the Patriots won -- especially during the first three Super Bowl seasons (ultimate game manager; just 11 TDs in 9 games over those three) and the last one (2 TDs in 3 playoff games and had a lousy Super Bowl). Just 13 TDs in 12 playoff games during those four Super Bowl seasons.

[Patler]

In my mind that describes Brett Favre more than Aaron Rodgers. Favre cost the Packers playoff victories.

Which is exactly why I wrote in my earlier post that "...Favre wouldn't even be on my short list if I had the option of QBs from 'all time.' "

[Patler]

Brady missed plenty of receivers over the years, but nobody notices when you win. Brady played lousy in several games that the Patriots won -- especially during the first three Super Bowl seasons (ultimate game manager; just 11 TDs in 9 games over those three) and the last one (2 TDs in 3 playoff games and had a lousy Super Bowl). Just 13 TDs in 12 playoff games during those four Super Bowl seasons.

Of course Brady has missed plenty of receivers over the years, all QBs have. I would hate to think you missed my point of the one example I gave, but perhaps you did. All incompletions are not equal when trying to chose among good players for the one to carry your standard.

I will never subscribe to the view that Packer wins are because of Rodgers, but losses are because of all the others. Many share in the wins and in the losses. But, a true GOAT makes the plays that are presented when the game is on the line. No, not any QB ever has made them all, and, yes, Rodgers has made some too, but I have come away from a lot of Packer playoff losses thinking Rodgers could/should have been better at crucial times of the game.

For that reason, and to get under the skins of the Rodgers adoration society, I'll vote for Brady.

[Patler]

Brady certainly has had more big moments in the playoffs, but part of that is Hoody Genius and part of it is his defense has kept him in games (plenty when he hasn't played particularly well). I still give the edge to Brady because championships factor into this, like it or not. It's hard to argue 6 vs 1. I think Rodgers at his best is better than Brady. Rodgers at his best can do all that Brady can + things that Brady can't (arm strength/scrambling). If Rodgers won 1 or 2 Super Bowls, you could make a better argument -- like arguing Elway vs. Montana.

I don't disagree with any of that.

[RashanGary]

Number of career starts it took before defense gave up 30+ points in back to back games:

Justin Herbert: 4
Peyton Manning: 7
Aaron Rodgers: 12
Patrick Mahomes: 13
Drew Brees: 26
Dan Marino: 37
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Tom Brady: 295