Official Free Agency/Offseason/Non-Draft Thread

[Bretsky]

He actually has some usefulness. He's more RB than WR at this point, but he's actually not bad as a third RB (averages 6.1 yard/carry in his career). He might be ideal for Tyler Ervin's jet sweep role. He's probably the only guy who is still useful at KR because he returns everything and is still dangerous (led the league with 35 returns and he averages 30 yards/return). I could see him breaking one off in a cold weather game late in the year or the playoffs. I wouldn't offer him much, but I'd like him on the team for a reasonable amount.

I like the idea as well for 1-2 years at about 1.5 to 2MIL/year

If Jones is hurt he's a nice back to mesh with Dillon

And he's still a ST threat

[bobblehead]

He is not as good as you think. He was a bit above replacement in 2019. Rest of career he is the garbage prince who attained his crown of garbage king at th nfccg.
I don't think he is nfccg bad but he is at best a bit better than replacement. But at that price you can't expect much more.

No, he is better than you think. I watch a lot of NFL and there are a lot of bad CB in the league. As pointed out he was still hurt in the NFCC. Also the scheme got him beat on that end of half situation, which contributed to firing Pettine. (and greg williams, but that was a different game).

King when he is healthy is probably top 40 in the league. If I watched and graded the top 90 that most teams rely on he probably falls somewhere in the middle. That means having him as your #2 is just fine. Yes, I too would like to have 2 shutdown corners and all pros at every position and backup, but I live on planet earth in the real world. In that world King isn't "garbage". An opinion that sounds like something brandon would post however comes close to that definition. Not every player falls into the category of "best fucking evah" and "he is so fucking bad he single handedly ruins lives".

[bobblehead]

Cordarell Patterson's recent tweets indicate hints of him coming to Green Bay.

Thoughts ?

Similar to my post to upnorth. Patterson has a place on the roster as a returner. I remember him running down our throats lining up in the backfield for the Patriots a couple seasons ago. He would be much like Ervin. Not a bad guy to add if you don't plan on drafting a similar player....but only for near vets minimum. I don't mean to say he is on the level with King, but the "he sucks" idea is silly. Very good return specialist who can do a couple nice things in an offense that utilizes him. Maybe 15 snaps a game on offense with a touch or 2 in the right scenario type guy.

edit: But I would still prefer to bring back Ty Montgomery after McCarthy scapegoated him. MM sucked ass and was always looking to throw someone under the bus for his deficiencies. A lot of the problems with our special teams was due to not running schematic/situational drills on ST, just "talking" about them. And he stuck with the same shitty ST coaches for years.

[texaspackerbacker]

Patterson - as I said a few days ago, would absolutely solve our problem as a kick returner, and he'd be an excellent plug and play back up at both RB and WR. With him and Jones and Dillon, we don't need any more than a UDFA or Dexter Williams, assuming he's still around. And in a pinch, he could be a back up WR also. He would be head and shoulders better than Ervin ever was.

[Guiness]

Man, those Texans. They finished 4-12. They don't have a 1st round pick. Their starting QB doesn't want to play for them. They're 18 million over the cap. Other than that, everything's great.

From the Way Back machine (i.e. page 1 of this thread!).

The one great thing they still had, the trade value of that QB, is a. lot. less. great.

[Upnorth]

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/packers-kevin-king-shakes-injury-tag-470572/

14.9 yards per target. Not good at all.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/kevin-king/11788?season=2020

Pff grade of 56 65 and 55 over last 3 yrs. That's an average in the 80th range for CB. So solid #3 at best.

And finally a much better argument than what I have posted

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/3/23/22346534/grading-analytics-say-packers-re-signing-of-kevin-king-is-a-poor-investment

Overall saying garbage king may be an exagerration but I think it's amusing. Perhaps I'm going into brandon territory (I did bring up pff grades and use incendiary language) but I see him as a athletic corner who is a poor tackler that is always injured. I think he missed half (or more) of the games he is on the roster. I am completely ok with him as a #3 CB and his contract is appropriate for that. He is not an average #2. (I should have capitalized that and perhaps changed color. Shout out to woody).

I want him on the team for chemistry and for #3 purposes. We need a #2. Not a 1b as that isn't realistic. But calling him a #2 isn't realistic either.

[Zool]

Haha, from the AcmePacking article

I’d like to leave you with a question to ponder: If I offered you an investment option that was short-term, offered very little upside, but the odds of it being a complete waste of money were meaningfully high, would you invest in it?

I'm not a King guy, and I hope he's just an injury insurance sign, but this article is brutal. King's best year statistically puts him in the 50% of all graded corners. That's his ceiling.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't take PFF grades as gospel. They help paint a picture. A lot of it is subjective. Some of it is game dependent. For example, Green Bay has played with a lot of leads the last two years. Their CBs are often asked to play conservatively, so they'll take a hit statistically. My eye test says that King's ceiling is an above average CB (2019). However, he misses a lot of games and doesn't play well when he's nicked up. Realistically, we'll probably get a guy that is good the 1/3 of the time he is healthy. The other 2/3 of the time he'll miss games or play poorly because he's nicked up. I hope we get the 2019 King. That would be helpful. I'm not expecting it, but he's not a terrible insurance policy. I probably would have preferred other guys--because my patience has run out with King and Josh Jackson.

[bobblehead]

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/fo...ry-tag-470572/
14.9 yards per target. Not good at all.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/kevin-king/11788?season=2020

Pff grade of 56 65 and 55 over last 3 yrs. That's an average in the 80th range for CB. So solid #3 at best.

And finally a much better argument than what I have posted

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/3/23/22346534/grading-analytics-say-packers-re-signing-of-kevin-king-is-a-poor-investment

Overall saying garbage king may be an exagerration but I think it's amusing. Perhaps I'm going into brandon territory (I did bring up pff grades and use incendiary language) but I see him as a athletic corner who is a poor tackler that is always injured. I think he missed half (or more) of the games he is on the roster. I am completely ok with him as a #3 CB and his contract is appropriate for that. He is not an average #2. (I should have capitalized that and perhaps changed color. Shout out to woody).

I want him on the team for chemistry and for #3 purposes. We need a #2. Not a 1b as that isn't realistic. But calling him a #2 isn't realistic either.

I understand everyone wants to dump on him because of the NFCC game. He also plays opposite an elite CB which gets him targeted more often. So basically once you drop the hyperbole we don't truly disagree all that much. Yards per target is sort of a BS stat. But he was targeted enough that its somewhat relevant. He has been healthy once and my eyes told me he was much better than his PFF grade that year. Casey Heyward was a guy who flashed a little but was hurt all the time. Mica Hyde was playing out of position. JC Tretter was hurt early in his career. These are guys I lamented losing at the time when they didn't break the bank in FA. I am thrilled to bring back King on this contract. If he doesn't perform, no big deal. If he however is mostly healthy and looks like an NFL CB we can extend him.

The funny thing about the quote Zool put up is that it assumes certain things that simply aren't true. First and foremost that the real contract (4.75 million) is any kind of investment in NFL funny money terms. What if I offered you an investment in a put option against your apple stock that you hoped to never cash in, but protected you from the possible downside of not buying the put? Would that be a total waste?

[red]

I understand everyone wants to dump on him because of the NFCC game. He also plays opposite an elite CB which gets him targeted more often. So basically once you drop the hyperbole we don't truly disagree all that much. Yards per target is sort of a BS stat. But he was targeted enough that its somewhat relevant. He has been healthy once and my eyes told me he was much better than his PFF grade that year. Casey Heyward was a guy who flashed a little but was hurt all the time. Mica Hyde was playing out of position. JC Tretter was hurt early in his career. These are guys I lamented losing at the time when they didn't break the bank in FA. I am thrilled to bring back King on this contract. If he doesn't perform, no big deal. If he however is mostly healthy and looks like an NFL CB we can extend him.

The funny thing about the quote Zool put up is that it assumes certain things that simply aren't true. First and foremost that the real contract (4.75 million) is any kind of investment in NFL funny money terms. What if I offered you an investment in a put option against your apple stock that you hoped to never cash in, but protected you from the possible downside of not buying the put? Would that be a total waste?

It wasn't just the NFCCG. I got to go to both playoff games. I was shocked in the first game at just how far he ayed off the line. On a third and short he would line up ten yards off the guys, and start backpedaling at the snap

And I'm not exaggerating

For a guy to play that deep and just give up everything underneath, to then get burned by the deep ball when the whole world knows it's coming just shows that he just doesn't get it

[Zool]

Bobble, you're digging your heels in a bit on a guy who's just not very good. He's not bad, but we have seen his best and that was before lower body injuries. He's going to get worse. The best offer he had was a face saving 1 year deal for not a lot of money. If another team wanted him, he would be gone.

[RashanGary]

It wasn't just the NFCCG. I got to go to both playoff games. I was shocked in the first game at just how far he ayed off the line. On a third and short he would line up ten yards off the guys, and start backpedaling at the snap

And I'm not exaggerating

For a guy to play that deep and just give up everything underneath, to then get burned by the deep ball when the whole world knows it's coming just shows that he just doesn't get it

Yep. He has some head scratching moments. Everyone blames pettine, but why didn’t jaire, Amos or savage commit so many situational blunders and king did over and over? Maybe they’re coached to have some flexibility in the way they play and they’re expected to understand the situation and make little adjustments. You can’t call a play that plans out every step of every players movement, at some point, the player has to be able to adjust a little and make good decisions. King is the one guy who kept making bone headed plays. That doesn’t scream, coaching problem, to me.

[Upnorth]

Interesting worst case senario analysis from a Minnesota based website

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/packers/examining-the-worst-case-scenario-for-the-packers-in-2021/

Most of this stuff we have already talked about, but a non fan perspective is interesting to read.
It's good to be spoiled.

[bobblehead]

It wasn't just the NFCCG. I got to go to both playoff games. I was shocked in the first game at just how far he ayed off the line. On a third and short he would line up ten yards off the guys, and start backpedaling at the snap

And I'm not exaggerating

For a guy to play that deep and just give up everything underneath, to then get burned by the deep ball when the whole world knows it's coming just shows that he just doesn't get it

Or is it coaching? He was brought back. The coach was fired.

[bobblehead]

Bobble, you're digging your heels in a bit on a guy who's just not very good. He's not bad, but we have seen his best and that was before lower body injuries. He's going to get worse. The best offer he had was a face saving 1 year deal for not a lot of money. If another team wanted him, he would be gone.

I'm not really digging my heels in. I pointed out that we weren't that far off. I'm not trying to anoint King the second coming or anything. I'm simply saying that when healthy he is decent. I don't mind him at this price. I like it a lot better than trying to force a draft pick, or paying 13 million when we are already in cap hell.