Starting to appreciate what Sherman did for GB?

[The Leaper]

I didn't like Sherman the GM; and I snapped after the Phily game.

But Sherman the GM is not looking nearly as bad as he did when he left. Off the top of my head he brought in

Barnett
Walker
Al Harris
Scott Wells
Cullen Jenkins
Corey Williams
Aaron Kampman

So he got lucky a few times late in the draft (Williams, Kampman, Wells) and found a couple guys worthy of being starters on day one. Yippee!

For every name you list, there are at least two miserable failures that he also drafted or signed. Carroll, Sander, Ferguson, Thomas, Peterson, Anderson, Lee, Washington, Roman, Luchey, Glenn.

There is no debate. Sherman was an incompetant GM. Monkeys throwing crap at a draft board could come up with 33% of a roster in 3-4 years time.

[Zool]

Monkeys throwing crap at a draft board could come up with 33% of a roster in 3-4 years time.

If I ever become a billionaire, I'm gonna buy a team and test this theory.

[The Leaper]

If I ever become a billionaire, I'm gonna buy a team and test this theory.

Sounds good to me. I'm sure someone has already done something like it...maybe not with the crap throwing...too messy.

People like monkeys.

[run pMc]

If I ever become a billionaire, I'm gonna buy a team and test this theory.

LMAO

Wish I'd thought of that first.

My take: Sherman was a very good coach 6 days of the week, an average coach on gameday, and a below average GM. I think he took risks with drafts, FA & salary cap mgmt which cost him his job. The result: in his final year, there was little depth to make up for all the injuries. The playoff losses to ATL, PHI and MIN were also pretty bad for a lot of people, and didn't help him. He did do some good things in GB, but I think he needed to go.

Jury's still out on TT & M3, but after this season we should know.

[cpk1994]

Sherman was a great guy. I think he did everything he could to better the team. Unfortunately, he was an incompetant GM and a lousy coach. He often looked like he was unsure of what to do...a point made all too clear in the Philly debacle.

Incompetent GM? Yes. Lousy coach? No. I wouldn't go that far. I gave him 4 years to prove himself, but like packnuts, when he blew the Philly game, that was about it for me. The next year was the embarrassment against the Vikes in the playoffs. That was the final straw.

The playoff game against ATL wa the final straw for me. It was when Eric Metcalf was ruled to have fumbled when it clearly it the kicking team player first. Did Sherrman challenge like he should have? No. the game was still close and after that blujder, Atlanta scored and never looked back. That was bad enough, but instead of admitting his mistake after the game, he blamed the REFS saying they told him he couldn't challenge. The head ref even came out to the press and indirectly called Sherman a liar. It was almost a whole week before Sherman finally admiited his mistake. I wanted him fired right then and there.

[The Leaper]

My take: Sherman was a very good coach 6 days of the week, an average coach on gameday, and a below average GM.

I guess I should say I feel Sherman is a lousy coach in terms of strategy and adjustments...which is a HUGE part of the equation.

Where Sherman was superior was in his care for the players and the way he could build a sense of unity and teamwork. I think his teaching background probably plays a role in that. Most guys that played for him spoke honestly about their devotion to him.

Unfortunately, the NFL isn't a place where you can succeed merely on teamwork. It certainly is a building block, but you need solid strategy and capacity to switch horses midstream if necessary...to have a feel for the game taking place and what is happening. Those were the areas that Sherman was lousy in.

[cpk1994]

My take: Sherman was a very good coach 6 days of the week, an average coach on gameday, and a below average GM.

I guess I should say I feel Sherman is a lousy coach in terms of strategy and adjustments...which is a HUGE part of the equation.

Where Sherman was superior was in his care for the players and the way he could build a sense of unity and teamwork. I think his teaching background probably plays a role in that. Most guys that played for him spoke honestly about their devotion to him.

Unfortunately, the NFL isn't a place where you can succeed merely on teamwork. It certainly is a building block, but you need solid strategy and capacity to switch horses midstream if necessary...to have a feel for the game taking place and what is happening. Those were the areas that Sherman was lousy in.

Can't say the same for his assistants.

[woodbuck27]

I didn't like Sherman the GM; and I snapped after the Phily game.

But Sherman the GM is not looking nearly as bad as he did when he left. Off the top of my head he brought in

Barnett
Walker
Al Harris
Scott Wells
Cullen Jenkins
Corey Williams
Aaron Kampman

So he got lucky a few times late in the draft (Williams, Kampman, Wells) and found a couple guys worthy of being starters on day one. Yippee!

For every name you list, there are at least two miserable failures that he also drafted or signed. Carroll, Sander, Ferguson, Thomas, Peterson, Anderson, Lee, Washington, Roman, Luchey, Glenn.

There is no debate. Sherman was an incompetant GM. Monkeys throwing crap at a draft board could come up with 33% of a roster in 3-4 years time.

Ahhhh . . . .the Ole Monkey Crap on the Wall Theory.

Similiar to . . .

the Ted Thompson Diluted Down Draft Theory.

Neither should be adopted.

Generally.

Draft for best quality talent ( HOLD YOUR DRAFT POSITION ) not bodies with limited talents (5th - 7th round picks).

Trade up if your needs or your man is there. Oherwise known as 'GOING FOR IT!

[Deputy Nutz]

Like when Sherman traded up for Kenny Peterson? That was so cool and boy didn't that work out?

[the_idle_threat]

Like when Sherman traded up for Kenny Peterson? That was so cool and boy didn't that work out?

Worked better than B.J. Sander. And James Lee ...

Did we trade up for Donnell Washington?

[woodbuck27]

in a few years mike sherman will probably become a mere footnote in packers coaching history. what mike sherman will probably best be remembered for is the beautiful renovation of lambeau field. from all accounts he did a great job overseeing that, and its something he should always be proud of.

He did a nice job on the drywall in the Atrium mens' rooms. I also liked the choice of lighting he got on sale at Home depot. It sure was a mess though, when he tried to re-install the toilets - had to call in the pumber on that one.

Man. . . thanks for the laugh.

X 10.

[The Shadow]

Sherman was not a horrible coach (although he was a terrible GM), but he turned out to be in over his head (big games, postseason, mid-game adjustments, Tom Rossley).
His escalating micromanagement style (remember the receivers coach who left for the same job with another club saying that Sherman would have meetings to plan future meetings?) demonstrated that his solution for improvement eventually almost exclusively consisted solely of the more More MORE! tactic - which of course is no substitute for astuteness.
Seemed like a decent chap - but he was never going to take this team anywhere near a Super Bowl.

[woodbuck27]

Why does it seem that Shermy apologists usually lack reasoning skills?

He was a good guy with good intentions, so I wont ever bash the guy personally. But he was SLOWLY killing this team.

Actually, I find that most people who HATE Shermy lack reasoning skills. They typically focus on the 4th and one, the #3 for Sander and giving money to KGB and Joe Johnson.

The truth is that Sherman wasn't slowly killing the team, he was doing it very rapidly. It should be obvious that Sherman was going for broke trying to win one last time with an aging QB and roster.

Sherman walked into GB with a sorry beat up veteran squad and one final fantastic GM year from Wolf. Sherman had crap along the D-line (Theirry, Dotson, Brown, Holliday. Maryland was past his prime but was brought in to replace the ever expanding Brown, and KGB was a rook), O-line (Verba, Winters, Dotson(played two games) and two rookies, LB crew (Bernardo Harris and A beat up Brian Williams were 'the best' on this crew, WR (Schroeder - marginal and Freeman - washed up, led this group) and RB (Levens was washed up, Hendo still competent, Green the FA aquisition) when he arrived. To say that the squad that Sherman inhereted 'was loaded with talent' is just a bunch of crap.

There will always be an argument about what is the most important factor between guys drafted being talented versus a coach bringing out that talent - so I give equal credit to Wolf and Sherman for drafting, aquiring, developing and using the talents of Clifton, Tauscher, KGB, Franks, and Green. Wolfs' 1999 and 2001 drafts were so-so and pretty crappy, so Sherman pretty much got the pre-1999 hold-overs, the 2000 guys, plus McKenzie, Driver, and Martin.

Sherman clearly was playing for 'now' by spending draft picks on players: two 4s for Glenn, a 2 for Harris and a 2 for moving up to get Walker. The Joe Johnson signing was to try to fix the Reynold debacle.

What Sherman did right: Sherman got Favre as a ten year vet, and developed the best running attack in Packer history to protect Favre as well as keeping the O-line intact. Recall that Favre was injured in both 2002 (knee) and 2003 (thumb). If you don't think that these injuries required some decent coaching to overcome, you missed the games. Also, if you missed the horrendous collection of injuries during 2002 that derailed an 8-1 team, you also weren't watching. Injuries matter, especially when they take away 3 of your starting O-linemen, a defensive end, top two wideouts, top two running backs, your TE, your best safety, etc. all for the critical wild card playoff game. In 2002, it was the injuries, stupid.

Did Sherman screw up in the 2003 playoffs? Well, yes, because he didn't win. But none of the calls he made were individually all that bad. Many other coaches would have made the same calls. Going for it on fourth and one on the goal line to get a big lead. Punting on 4th and one to protect a 3 point lead. Playing zone on 4th and 26. Each of these plays could have turned out right had the execution been correct and/or the luck fair.

I would argue that what happened after the 2003 playoff loss is what earned Sherman a ticket out of town. Screwing up the McKenzie situation (he should have traded him before the draft to get a #2 at that point), screwing up the D-coor change (inexplicable to get a guy with a crazy scheme that didn't fit the roster). The 2004 draft was his worst of the three by far. Finally, I also think it was absurd for Harlan to fire Sherman as GM and keep him on as coach. That was wrong for Sherman AND TT.

Sherman did a lot of good, but he really mucked it up in the end. A very good organizational scheme coach, an average game day coach, and a poor, go-for-broke, risk-taking GM.

Slam dunk on that post.

[Deputy Nutz]

Like when Sherman traded up for Kenny Peterson? That was so cool and boy didn't that work out?

Worked better than B.J. Sander. And James Lee ...

Did we trade up for Donnell Washington?

Yes we did trade up for that retard from Clemson! Good Job.

I think that was the 2003 draft class, maybe the '04 class, but we had 3 third round picks and not one of them is with the team, in fact none of our first day picks are currently(thank god) are with the team.

[Joemailman]

It was the 2004 draft. Mike should have been trading down, not up. He did just fine late in the draft:

Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
3 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State
3 72 Donnell Washington DT Clemson
3 87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State
6 179 Corey Williams DT Arkansas State
7 251 Scott Wells C Tennessee