How Voters Think

[Harlan Huckleby]

You typically get a quantity discount for everything else in our economy, so why should tax percentages go up as you earn more? They should go down. At some point, people have contributed enough to our government.

OK, I'll take this as a clear statement of what you think is fair.

IT actually is rather close to how the system works.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I am not at all envious or negative towards the wealthy.

Yeah, you just want more of their money.

Ya, this is true. But its not because I begrudge you your wealth. I think the tax burden on lower middle class is too much and needs to be shifted.

You essentially are for regressive taxes, and I understand your argument for it.

[Scott Campbell]

I think progressive taxes are fair. People who make more can afford to pay a higher rate.

If forced to choose between "best" and "fair", I'll take best every time. Like I said, I believe in the results of the 80's investment tax credits. People started business because of those so called "loopholes for the rich", and created wealth for themselves while creating jobs for others and contributing more to the tax base. I believe that set the table for the unprecedented economic growth and prosperity of the 90's.

I would not be for a flat tax unless it were accompanied by far lower government spending resulting in a lower amount of absolute dollars confiscated by the government.

Although I am tempted to support a flat tax just because it'll be easier to fill out the forms.

[Scott Campbell]

You essentially are for regressive taxes, and I understand your argument for it.

I am. Though I loath the terms progressive and regressive. The term progressive sounds forward thinking, and regressive has negative connotations as if the concept was somehow evil.

I also believe that a rising tide will raise all ships, and that what is good for the wealthy often ends up benefiting others. I think taking more money from rich people will entice people to retire early, or otherwise not earn (and contribute to the tax base) as much as they are capable of. And that ends up crushing our economy, and doing far more damage to the poor than many imagine.

[Scott Campbell]

And for the record, I believe in investing in education - as long as its efficient and void of corruption. That money comes back ten fold in that it helps create people who contribute to the tax base instead of living off of it.

Teach a man to fish.

[Scott Campbell]

Why don't you just state what you think is fair.

I don't have all the answers. I don't even have a few of the answers. I just believe that blatant wealth redistribution will not be good for the people of this country. And I believe that those with the "screw the rich fucker" mentality are dangerous, and susceptible to the pandering of some in the Democratic party. John Edwards was the worst.

[RashanGary]

And for the record, I believe in investing in education - as long as its efficient and void of corruption. That money comes back ten fold in that it helps create people who contribute to the tax base instead of living off of it.

Teach a man to fish.

I agree.

[Scott Campbell]

I think the tax burden on lower middle class is too much and needs to be shifted.

I think a stronger economy would help shift more people up and out of the lower middle class and working poor.

[RashanGary]

I think a big part of making our economy stronger is finding a way to get more control over the world wide market place. Any money we take from other countries should not be taxed IMO. If our people our going to get rich at some other coutries expense, that helps everyone here.

[Partial]

Partial, are you really so myopic that you've missed Tyrone's point this horridly? I would be sad to think so but you've proven his point quite effectively.

Tyrone is a jackass who doesn't have a point and wants to stroke his own ego.

The point I was saying that Fair Tax is great for the middle man, and is a welcome change from the age old policy of the very poor and the very rich not paying any taxes.

I for one am sick of these bums getting a handout when they don't do anything positive for the world. Time has proven my theory wise that it is futile.

As Tyrone stated, success is relative. No doubt about it, but I don't consider graduating from high school to be a success. I don't consider settling to be a cashier at a grocery store success. These things don't require any brain power or effort to do. People can say that the reality is that there are lots of grocery store cashiers and they should be helped. To that I say no way. There is plenty of room for advancement and with simply applying yourself for a couple of hours everyday instead of just going through the motions you'll be a produce department manager in no time. My point is thing whole thing is most of these cashiers are not unhappy with the way their life is. They have chosen there path and have accepted it. Since they've come to terms with it, so should everyone else and stop pumping money into them.

Typically, the poorer class gets poorer in rough times because they do not know how to manage their money. Something like Fair Tax would make them think twice before going and spending money on frivolous items as they will be taxed heavily once they go over the poverty spending threshold of 24k untaxed.

I'm not some hippie dumbass that thinks Milwaukee Hamilton needs new computers annually and new text books every years, blindly hoping these will improve grades and test scores. Like Scott, I think every dollar the government touches gets wasted. I am all for very little government intervention in our lives because it is unnecessary. 99% of us are civilized and can handle ourselves. Currently, the system is set-up where the 1% bad apples still get the same benefits as a working class low income family that is struggling to get by. Their is a big difference between the two situations in my book, and no one in hell should they be given equal treatment.

I don't know why Tyrone decided to discuss jobs. That has nothing to do with the discussion. My point is the lowest income family that I am close to are barely above the poverty line yet their kids went on to do great things because they sucked it up and did what it took to be a success. How many people in ghetto do this? Very few. Why should money kept being pumped in when failure breeds failure.

As for that dumbass bad mouthing my former school, that is shows the kind of character that he has. This guy consistently runs his yapper whether it be about shitty phones like the HTC Touch or the adequate-at-best engineering school at UW. This guy is such a kook that he actually stated that becoming a pharmacist at 24 making over 120k is NOT successful. Yeah... OK. I'd like to see Tyrone from Yuppieville come up from salary inflated Arizona and make 120k here. I simply do not see it happening. This guy has proven time and time again that he is not only an asshole, but a dumb ass at that.

I don't know how this whole topic shifted, but I think that if the voters knew all about Fair Tax, they'd be all for it. For one, it is pretty much the only way to tax the illegals. I am all for that! Secondly, it will make it impossible for the wealthy to avoid paying taxes unless they don't spend any money or start buying used items. It will also regulate the spending of the poor. Not a lot will change for your average joe posting on this message board.

[Scott Campbell]

Is it possible that Ziggy is unemployed today because somebody out there decided not to take a shot and invest in a business because there's no point if people like Harlan are allowed to confiscate so much of what they earn?

I think its more than possible, and that well intentioned people who think they're solving problems by giving more to the poor by further taxing success are really just screwing themselves.

[MJZiggy]

And for the record, I believe in investing in education - as long as its efficient and void of corruption. That money comes back ten fold in that it helps create people who contribute to the tax base instead of living off of it.

Teach a man to fish.

Exactly what kind of programs do you think we're talking about here, because I'm referring to the social programs (like education and affordable childcare initiatives) that improve people's opportunity to improve their condition and temporarily help out people who need it. I don't condone on any level handing people money and having them live off of it for generations. I don't know that anyone's suggesting that. I'm all for government reform. Clinton did it in '94, I just think they went about it the wrong way and it's since become more bloated and less efficient which is odd considering all the power the Republicans have had during Bush's term. I think it may be time to shake shit up again.

[Partial]

We need a real republican like Ron Paul. He is completely right in thinking that McCain is too much like a democrat. The only government reform we need is to shrink it wayyyy down!

[MJZiggy]

Is it possible that Ziggy is unemployed today because somebody out there decided not to take a shot and invest in a business because there's no point if people like Harlan are allowed to confiscate so much of what they earn?

I think its more than possible, and that well intentioned people who think they're solving problems by giving more to the poor by further taxing success are really just screwing themselves.

Actually, I think that the fact that when I went to the hotjobs site the other day and the daily statistics showed 18K jobs listed with 300K applicants might just have something to do with it.

I would love to start a business, a little yarn shop in the antique district, but I know that there's no way I'm going to get a loan for startup, I know that childcare costs will eat up everything I earn and if I have to hire someone to watch the shop when I'm unavailable, I won't be able to afford to pay the healthcare benefits. It has nothing to do with whether Uncle Sam is going to want a contribution. Maybe I'd be able to get a loan through the SBA, and some business training, but that is one of those inefficient government handouts that you hate so much. Guess that would just be taking money away from rich folks who've earned it so I shouldn't utilize it.

[Scott Campbell]

I would love to start a business, a little yarn shop in the antique district,..........

Hell, I'd love to start a little yarn shop in the antique district too. It sounds like a blast. But I slave away at my job because I have to earn a living - not because its my favorite thing to do in life. I mean no disrespect here, but that sounds more like a lifestyle choice than a business plan. I've read enough from you over the years to be supremely confident that you are a formidable economic entity. I certainly would not bet against you.