Uh-Oh!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Skin,

You've been jumping up and down complaining about the appropriateness of this thread, saying it was "sickening attention getting." Others see some of your own shinangigans in the same light.

It's just somebody being different.

I was going to call you an insincere craphole, but it looks like nutz already did that. You continue to rephrase what I'm saying in your own words, then argue against them

OK, SkinBasket, here's one direct quote:

This whole thread makes me sick, and it's not the fact you may have been a teen (orwhateverthefrockyouare) mother. It's sickening that you seem to crave the attention of a messege board by expressing your "concerns" here

As far as me being insincere, if you and some other people think that I argue just to create drama, I doubt you'll change your minds. For others who aren't so sure, the truth is I just like to argue. I pick topics that I care about (in this case a person was attacked unfairly by Skin & Nutz; or where Jason Wilde was doing his job reporting on Al Harris, and Nutz and others crucified the messenger; I generally defend individuals against rising pig-headed mobs.)

And the other thing about my argument style is I stay away from personal attacks, for me debate is all in good fun.

As far as this thread, the only opinion I expressed about Mazzin's situation was in my first post, I said everything was gonna work out OK. This was not just a throw-away line, it's really how I felt about the situation.

I think the advice that Ziggy and the_idle_threat gave about preventing pregnancy was sound. But I disagree with Ziggy's statement (and the condescending tone of all her advice, BTW) that "You are not ready to be a mother." This may be an unpopular viewpoint, but I sense Mazzin could be a fine mother, right now! I am glad the pregnancy test was negative. But she's not 15. And she strikes me as mature for her age. Not an ideal time to have a kid, but if the test had turned out the other way, I don't view it as a tragedy. So shoot me!

[MJZiggy]

Harlan, she's not 15, she's 18. At 18 the most she could be is an upcoming sophomore in college. She is not married to this boyfriend and whether he sticks around once he gets the news of impending parenthood is not a given. When annoyed on a message board, she goes on the attack. How is she going to handle the finances of a baby, the emotional stress it puts on your relationship when it's unplanned, the resentment he's sure to dump on her for strapping him with this kid, and a very demanding baby. Babies do not tend to care if you're having a bad day. Hubby traveled for a while while we had a baby in the house. I was married, far older and more mature than Mazzin is now, financially able to take care of everything and that baby was well-planned. It was still a struggle getting through every day alone with that kid. My family is the light of my life, but having my hubby there every day would have been a godsend at that time. You can argue til you're blue as your avatar and you will not convince me that Mazzin is in any way, shape or form ready for parenthood. Hell, right now the $12,000 birth which does not include an epidural which runs $800 per hour plus the anesthesiologists bill would put her right under the table.

[GrnBay007]

And she strikes me as mature for her age.

You're not serious?? I suppose our definitions of mature could be different but c'mon. What "mature" person asks 400 complete strangers on a sports forum for advise on a possible pregnancy issue?? Have a little self respect.

[Noodle]

Blue Dog, I commonly find myself agreeing with you, which has caused me profound worry in the past.

But on one point, in this long, tortured, but intereseting thread, you are wrong: Ms. Mazzin is not ready to be a Mommy. Not fair to her (she has a lot of growing up to do), not fair to the father (he has a lot of growing up to do, even if his tool needs a magnum), not fair to the grandparents (they have their lives to live, but they will end up being de facto parents so Mazzin can continue her schooling), and, most importantly, not fair to the lil feller.

I know, there's no guarantee that waiting will make you a better parent. There's no guarantee that Mazzin wouldn't be an A-mazzin Mommy right now. Rather, it's a percentages game. Odds are, if you wait to get a little more settled and to establish a stable relationship with your mate, you increase the chances that the whole parent thing will work out.

Sure, it wouldn't be a tragedy -- that's reserved for victims of Katrina or cancer or such. But it'd be a cryin' shame.

[MJZiggy]

And if I took a "condescending tone" it was because she was so busy fighting with Skinbasket that she completely ignored posts that were intended to help her situation. What was I supposed to say to get her attention when the word 'fucktard' seems so much more important than 'pregnancy prevention' and three separate people telling her not to use a condom alone.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Ziggy and Noodle:

I know this sounds like double-talk, but I don't directly disagree with what you said. Your specific points make sense.

But in my personal experience, I've known women who have had babies when they were 18, 19, 20 and raised really great families. In the cases I'm thinking of, the husbands were shits who split quickly. And the women had good lives, went to college. They both wish they had MORE kids!

People can be ok despite difficult circumstances.

Also, I don't see Mazzin as reckless in her behavior in the forum, I see confidence. Just a different take. She is no more of a hot-head than most of the 40-year-olds here.

[Harlan Huckleby]

And if I took a "condescending tone" it was because she was so busy fighting with Skinbasket that she completely ignored posts that were intended to help her situation.

The advise you gave was really good, and I know you are frustrated and just trying to help.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What "mature" person asks 400 complete strangers on a sports forum for advise on a possible pregnancy issue??

I find it a little eccentric. But not imature. I see confidence in herself, being able to take such a risk. And what is the harm? Frankly, it has been a very enlightening discussion for all. I'm sure she got very useful advise, despite some bad feelings spread by a few.

[Bretsky]

First off, I agree with everything MJ has said up to this point.

Secondly, I agree Harlan likes to argue and play devils advocate. But to argue she is ready is unsupported crap.

Third, we don't know for sure whether Mazzin is ready, but every ounce of common sense would dictate that she probably is not.

She was elated when the bullet was once again dodged and she still seemed to have a bit of the attitude that she doesn't need to modify her actions to avoid this happening again. Maybe that will change with some considerations in here and with time.

Since she was happier the day wasn't now, she didn't really want it to happen and that alone tells me she's not ready.

She's 18 and not married (and if you try to argue that single moms do fine I'll say no shit, but there aren't many mentally ready at 18) and that alone tells me the time is not right.

B

[Mazzin]

Correct, Sophmore in college. You saying that I went on an attack....have you not read the whole time, I was personally attacked by skinbasket, and than I retaliate so therefore I'm in the wrong. WTF?

I doubt I'm mature enough right now, all I care about now is School, Working, Family and Packers...not particularly in that order.

If I were to have gotten pregnant I would have loved the kid with all my heart and done my damndest to make sure he/she has one of the best lives she could under these conditions.

The last thing was me and my boyfriend have been dating for a while, and we have talked about it, he strongly belives that if he were to get me pregnant we would maintain the same relationship that we currently have, BUT we would probably grow closer with the great gift from god. Also my boyfriend has a pretty good job for his age, he is a warehouse manager of a big carpet store where I live. He makes around 1600-2100 every two weeks...maybe more if he sells stuff and makes commission.

I have worked for everything I have My truck, my apartment, all the way down to my cell phone, and HD tv. Got all of those things on my own....If a baby were to be born I would probably get rid of most of it, and my boyfriend and I would just move into the same apartment and save money that way, and i would get rid of my truck, and get something with a littler payment. I would do all the things neccesarry to make sure that my little kid had what they needed, not saying i would be the best mom ever, but I would most certainly be the best mom I could be.

One last note, anyone that I offended or pissed off im sorry.

[GBRulz]

Right Mazzin, your cruisin days down A1A would go from a truck to a minivan.

[Bretsky]

Right Mazzin, your cruisin days down A1A would go from a truck to a minivan.

Yes, I'm one of those depressed Minivaners; still denying the concept that a Minivan officially means my youth is washed up..........but it's prolly true.

So Mazzin.......don't let yourself get tempted by a minivan for many many years to come...aka.....the rugrats can wait til later.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Secondly, I agree Harlan likes to argue and play devils advocate. But to argue she is ready is unsupported crap.

Umm, I only play devils advocate in cases where I really side with the devil. I really did beleive that the Packers should have redone Walker's deal in early 2005!

Also, I never argued that Mazzin is ready. But I offer Mazzin's last post as exhibit A that she would be OK, despite not being ready.

[Harlan Huckleby]

So Mazzin.......don't let yourself get tempted by a minivan for many many years to come

You mean she should stay out of boys' minivans with bumper sticker, "If this minivan's a rockin, don't come a knockin!"

[Partial]

If I were to have gotten pregnant I would have loved the kid with all my heart and done my damndest to make sure he/she has one of the best lives she could under these conditions.

Which probably isn't enough. There are many, many statistics and studies that show if you want to give you child the best possible live, you have it at 30 or 31. There is no way your kid could enjoy his youth and participate in sports and take some tennis lessons, play in band, etc by having it at this age. There is just no way you guys would be fiscally in a position to provide those things when you're 25-30 when you're paying off student loans, mortgage, diapers, etc. Kids are expensive as hell.

The last thing was me and my boyfriend have been dating for a while, and we have talked about it, he strongly belives that if he were to get me pregnant we would maintain the same relationship that we currently have, BUT we would probably grow closer with the great gift from god. Also my boyfriend has a pretty good job for his age, he is a warehouse manager of a big carpet store where I live. He makes around 1600-2100 every two weeks...maybe more if he sells stuff and makes commission.

I'm going to make an assumption here. Yes, that is a very good job for an 18 year old. I have no idea how old the guy is. My guess is, if he is making that money year round, then he is not going to school. While that is fine and dandy for some, that money is not going to that far unless there is some serious advancement. 25k is NOT enough to provide for a family on. In addition to the aforementioned statements, you won't have even close to the same relationship you have now. That's incredibly ignorant and short sighted. I don't know how your relationship is now, but you'll be fist deep in poop and baby food for several hours a day for the next several years. Assuming you do not do that now, it will take a significant amount of time away from one another, and provide several more hours of exhausting work. I am not one to say you're not up to the tasks, but to think it'll be as it is now is incorrect.

I have worked for everything I have My truck, my apartment, all the way down to my cell phone, and HD tv. Got all of those things on my own....If a baby were to be born I would probably get rid of most of it, and my boyfriend and I would just move into the same apartment and save money that way, and i would get rid of my truck, and get something with a littler payment. I would do all the things neccesarry to make sure that my little kid had what they needed, not saying i would be the best mom ever, but I would most certainly be the best mom I could be.

It seems to me like you're not concerned about saving money or anything like that, instead spending it on goods that quickly depreciate in value. That's not a good idea, just a tip for life.

One last note, anyone that I offended or pissed off im sorry.

I think a lot of people are pissed at one another in this thread. I don't see why, but whatever.



edit ----- Gah! Despite taking boat loads of math for engineering, I still cannot add. Disregard the part about money. How the hell does an 18 year old find a 50k a year sugar-daddy?