Jesus Christ

[HowardRoark]

If those who believe didn't love others, they wouldn't try sharing their faith either through their lives or in telling others about God's love.

Poignant video on this subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JHS8adO3hM

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't think that's true at all. If it's false, then it all comes down to acting how you want to be treated. You act ethically because that is what you expect out of others and there's no longer an entity to forgive you if you screw up. Screw up and you have to live with what you did.

But Tex, you talk a good game, but you don't walk the walk. That is what people see.

I'm neither a politician nor a preacher. If I was either, it would be in my self-interest to care what others think.

The good old Golden Rule--which you so eloquently stated--is, of course, Christian doctrine.

You'd be correct in what you say if you substitute the word "expect" for the word "want" to be treated--barring the existence of God, of course, which I assume is where you are coming from, Ziggy. Acting "ethically" in that scenario would only be logical if you rationally believe others will act ethically toward you. And the only reason that is even true to a very limited extent is religion--specifically OUR religion. Certainly, some other religions teach something similar to the Golden Rule, but the very prominent one currently being discussed over in FYI most certainly does not--nor does the reputed "religion" of atheists, Darwinism.

Seeing good in people is a very admirable trait, Ziggy, but it is only realistic among people where Judeo-Christian principles dominate the population. In places like that--places like America--even atheists get treated decently--for the most part.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I don't think that's true at all. If it's false, then it all comes down to acting how you want to be treated. You act ethically because that is what you expect out of others and there's no longer an entity to forgive you if you screw up. Screw up and you have to live with what you did.

But Tex, you talk a good game, but you don't walk the walk. That is what people see.

I'm neither a politician nor a preacher. If I was either, it would be in my self-interest to care what others think.

The good old Golden Rule--which you so eloquently stated--is, of course, Christian doctrine.

You'd be correct in what you say if you substitute the word "expect" for the word "want" to be treated--barring the existence of God, of course, which I assume is where you are coming from, Ziggy. Acting "ethically" in that scenario would only be logical if you rationally believe others will act ethically toward you. And the only reason that is even true to a very limited extent is religion--specifically OUR religion. Certainly, some other religions teach something similar to the Golden Rule, but the very prominent one currently being discussed over in FYI most certainly does not.

Seeing good in people is a very admirable trait, Ziggy, but it is only realistic among people where Judeo-Christian principles dominate the population. In places like that--places like America--even atheists get treated decently--for the most part.

Like most of the time, you are wrong again.

The golden rule didn't spring outta christianity...infact, there is little about christianity that is unique.

the golden rule has it's origins in greek philosophy.

Lastly, if is hilarious for you to say that is christian when it is based on Leviticus...which as far as i recall was the old testament..dont' believe there were any christians.

[Charles Woodson]

Re: Jesus Christ

Disclaimer: The following was directed to try to answer Tarlams! question as best as possible.
**Tyrone- this is not directed at you, so if you arent going to say anything constructive then i ask that you will skip it.

[Because of Easter, I don't.

I guess you're referring to the almighty "resurrection". There were less than a handful of "reliable" witnesses to that event. But I won't begin to dispute that.

If he was the bodily son of God and 1/3 of the Holy trinity, he had no business dying on the cross. I don't get it. I am just saying, I don't get it. I don't get he died for me. He should have lived for me. And he isn't alive. Jesus doesn't live. He's dead, buried and lost somewhere.

Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful. I just have lost faith in Jesus Christ. If you want to attack the topic, great. The author, please PM to relieve the forum members.

I havent read any of this thread
But what i have understood is that Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for our sins. Why did he do that? Because he loves us. thats really the only answer. It really is mind blowing, because God didn't have to choose to save us, but he did because he loves us. I really feel for you Tarlam because its not as easy as everyone says it is to be a christian, i mean Jesus in a way did live for us, because of his death no matter what we do is covered by him. The question of why doesn't it matter if we sin then is answered by if we truly belive in him, then we should not want to sin. I mean its not that easy, we still will struggle but God helps us through it.

[digitaldean]

If those who believe didn't love others, they wouldn't try sharing their faith either through their lives or in telling others about God's love. They want others to share in the joy of their faith and the joy that awaits those who believe in heaven.

Really? How would you feel about Muslims, hindus, etc. proslytizing.

Might be hard for you to understand, but there are many of us who find your sharing to be tedious and arduous.

Do you even realize how patronizing that philosophy is?

Ty, if you read the last sentence I wrote, I stated I'm not going to gushing sermons in every post. I stated what I thought at the proper moment, nothing more, nothing less.

In response to your thoughts on other religions trying to spread their faith, that's their right. If you aren't willing to stand on what you believe what good is it?

No, it's not hard for me to understand that others think I'm a pain for stating what I posted. But then again, there are other topics from other posters that I think are tedious and arduous, but somehow I have seemed none the worse for wear. Because we are all entitled to state what we think and believe. Besides this thread was titled "Jesus Christ" not "Who the Packers should pick?" If it was titled the latter, your points would be more valid.

If you took what I wrote as patronizing, then I must be missing something. Please point out to me the words that are.

From your post I take it that if I state my Christian belief, to you I'm a backward hick that believes in a fairytale and has no grey matter between the ears.

If anyone has been patronizing here, it's been you. If you want the free exchange of ideas in the proper format, stop coming across as so bitter when someone states something contrary to your own belief system.

[MJZiggy]

I don't think that's true at all. If it's false, then it all comes down to acting how you want to be treated. You act ethically because that is what you expect out of others and there's no longer an entity to forgive you if you screw up. Screw up and you have to live with what you did.

But Tex, you talk a good game, but you don't walk the walk. That is what people see.

I'm neither a politician nor a preacher. If I was either, it would be in my self-interest to care what others think.

The good old Golden Rule--which you so eloquently stated--is, of course, Christian doctrine.

You'd be correct in what you say if you substitute the word "expect" for the word "want" to be treated--barring the existence of God, of course, which I assume is where you are coming from, Ziggy. Acting "ethically" in that scenario would only be logical if you rationally believe others will act ethically toward you. And the only reason that is even true to a very limited extent is religion--specifically OUR religion. Certainly, some other religions teach something similar to the Golden Rule, but the very prominent one currently being discussed over in FYI most certainly does not--nor does the reputed "religion" of atheists, Darwinism.

Seeing good in people is a very admirable trait, Ziggy, but it is only realistic among people where Judeo-Christian principles dominate the population. In places like that--places like America--even atheists get treated decently--for the most part.

You may be neither a preacher nor a politician, but you do call yourself a Christian, and with that comes a standard of behavior. You do not meet the standard.

As to the ethics part, I can't expect anyone to treat me the way I wish to be treated if I don't act in the same manner. I can't speak for how others feel on the matter. It's not my place to judge them. I merely use their behavior in my decisions on whether to deal with them on a daily basis. If they act like shit, I am not so likely to want to be close to them. If I want people to be close to me, I act in a way that draws people to me. Being a complete turd would defeat that goal.

The golden rule is the basis of behavior for pretty much every religion in existence. Some simply practice better than others. You can't tell me the Buddhists do not practice the golden rule: what is karma afterall besides the ramifications of breaking the golden rule? The universe does have a way of biting you in the ass doesn't it? Then again, I don't believe that the universe works in accordance with individual behavior. The karma for being a piece of shit, only interested in working his way to the top, is that he winds up a lonely piece of shit never knowing if he has true friends or if they're just using him for his money. He also gets to live his life knowing he is a piece of shit and deserves what he wound up with.

[digitaldean]

Re: Jesus Christ

But what i have understood is that Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for our sins. Why did he do that? Because he loves us. thats really the only answer. It really is mind blowing, because God didn't have to choose to save us, but he did because he loves us. I really feel for you Tarlam because its not as easy as everyone says it is to be a christian, i mean Jesus in a way did live for us, because of his death no matter what we do is covered by him. The question of why doesn't it matter if we sin then is answered by if we truly belive in him, then we should not want to sin. I mean its not that easy, we still will struggle but God helps us through it.

CW,
Very well stated.

[Zool]

Isn't strange how one man who lived 2000 years ago preaching peace and love is at the center of so much angst and strife?

Son of God or no son of God, the man made some very valid statements that will ring true through the entirety of the human race.

I forget what movie its from, but it went something like "a person is smart, but people are dumb"

[MJZiggy]

Says the guy with the red diaper in his avatar. Well said.

[Zool]

I prefer to think of it as a cotton cod piece.

[MJZiggy]

Where did that name come from anyway. I hope what you're covering doesn't smell like cod. (going to shut up now before this thing winds up elsewhere)

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If those who believe didn't love others, they wouldn't try sharing their faith either through their lives or in telling others about God's love. They want others to share in the joy of their faith and the joy that awaits those who believe in heaven.

Really? How would you feel about Muslims, hindus, etc. proslytizing.

Might be hard for you to understand, but there are many of us who find your sharing to be tedious and arduous.

Do you even realize how patronizing that philosophy is?

Ty, if you read the last sentence I wrote, I stated I'm not going to gushing sermons in every post. I stated what I thought at the proper moment, nothing more, nothing less.

In response to your thoughts on other religions trying to spread their faith, that's their right. If you aren't willing to stand on what you believe what good is it?

No, it's not hard for me to understand that others think I'm a pain for stating what I posted. But then again, there are other topics from other posters that I think are tedious and arduous, but somehow I have seemed none the worse for wear. Because we are all entitled to state what we think and believe. Besides this thread was titled "Jesus Christ" not "Who the Packers should pick?" If it was titled the latter, your points would be more valid.

If you took what I wrote as patronizing, then I must be missing something. Please point out to me the words that are.

From your post I take it that if I state my Christian belief, to you I'm a backward hick that believes in a fairytale and has no grey matter between the ears.

If anyone has been patronizing here, it's been you. If you want the free exchange of ideas in the proper format, stop coming across as so bitter when someone states something contrary to your own belief system.

DD,

My comment wasn't based upon your posting, and didn't mean to imply that. You can post away.

Faiths: Of course it is their right to spread. Who is against that. Thank god for separation of church and state..otherwise your religion wouldn't have thrived here.

The point, which you are missing, is that many faiths don't proslytize. Many dont' want to be proslytized to. That is what i was referring to.

But, let's also be a little bit honest here. If an atheist went about preaching their faith...most christians would be up in arms.

Hick: what did i say that prompts that? Nothing. IF you look at what i wrote, it is that it is all about faith. There is no point in you or any other christian trying to defend or argue your faith..because it is a bunch of ludicrous stories that have almost no basis in fact.

That isn't to say that they didn't happen..but, you nor anyone else can prove it..any more than than i can prove that the flying spaghetti monster and his noodley appendage didnt' create the whole thing.

The whole thing is that you are free to believe what you want..but, for many of us, we would prefer not to hear about it (this doesn't mean posts). I go back to the good old days of faith being a private matter.

Maybe you are young, but there was a time in this country (the 70s and before) when talking about your faith wasn't the norm. There was a time before people had a personal relationship with jesus...and you know what...we were just fine.

Patronizing: What is patronizing is the implied assumption that you are right and the rest of us are wrong. That without your version of the truth we won't find heaven. That is very patronizing and morally superior.

You might be surprised to find that many religions don't adhere to this. For example, judiasm doesn't take this stance.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: Jesus Christ

Disclaimer: The following was directed to try to answer Tarlams! question as best as possible.
**Tyrone- this is not directed at you, so if you arent going to say anything constructive then i ask that you will skip it.

[Because of Easter, I don't.

I guess you're referring to the almighty "resurrection". There were less than a handful of "reliable" witnesses to that event. But I won't begin to dispute that.

If he was the bodily son of God and 1/3 of the Holy trinity, he had no business dying on the cross. I don't get it. I am just saying, I don't get it. I don't get he died for me. He should have lived for me. And he isn't alive. Jesus doesn't live. He's dead, buried and lost somewhere.

Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful. I just have lost faith in Jesus Christ. If you want to attack the topic, great. The author, please PM to relieve the forum members.

I havent read any of this thread
But what i have understood is that Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for our sins. Why did he do that? Because he loves us. thats really the only answer. It really is mind blowing, because God didn't have to choose to save us, but he did because he loves us. I really feel for you Tarlam because its not as easy as everyone says it is to be a christian, i mean Jesus in a way did live for us, because of his death no matter what we do is covered by him. The question of why doesn't it matter if we sin then is answered by if we truly belive in him, then we should not want to sin. I mean its not that easy, we still will struggle but God helps us through it.

Has it ever occured to you that Jesus may not have existed? Does that mitigate anything?

It isnt' easy being christian..of course not. When you've set up a construct like original sin...it sure ain't.

[Charles Woodson]

Re: Jesus Christ

Disclaimer: The following was directed to try to answer Tarlams! question as best as possible.
**Tyrone- this is not directed at you, so if you arent going to say anything constructive then i ask that you will skip it.

[Because of Easter, I don't.

I guess you're referring to the almighty "resurrection". There were less than a handful of "reliable" witnesses to that event. But I won't begin to dispute that.

If he was the bodily son of God and 1/3 of the Holy trinity, he had no business dying on the cross. I don't get it. I am just saying, I don't get it. I don't get he died for me. He should have lived for me. And he isn't alive. Jesus doesn't live. He's dead, buried and lost somewhere.

Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful. I just have lost faith in Jesus Christ. If you want to attack the topic, great. The author, please PM to relieve the forum members.

I havent read any of this thread
But what i have understood is that Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for our sins. Why did he do that? Because he loves us. thats really the only answer. It really is mind blowing, because God didn't have to choose to save us, but he did because he loves us. I really feel for you Tarlam because its not as easy as everyone says it is to be a christian, i mean Jesus in a way did live for us, because of his death no matter what we do is covered by him. The question of why doesn't it matter if we sin then is answered by if we truly belive in him, then we should not want to sin. I mean its not that easy, we still will struggle but God helps us through it.

Has it ever occured to you that Jesus may not have existed? Does that mitigate anything?

It isnt' easy being christian..of course not. When you've set up a construct like original sin...it sure ain't.

No that has never occurred to me. I fully believe that Jesus did exist and that he fulfilled everything in the Bible

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: Jesus Christ

Disclaimer: The following was directed to try to answer Tarlams! question as best as possible.
**Tyrone- this is not directed at you, so if you arent going to say anything constructive then i ask that you will skip it.

[Because of Easter, I don't.

I guess you're referring to the almighty "resurrection". There were less than a handful of "reliable" witnesses to that event. But I won't begin to dispute that.

If he was the bodily son of God and 1/3 of the Holy trinity, he had no business dying on the cross. I don't get it. I am just saying, I don't get it. I don't get he died for me. He should have lived for me. And he isn't alive. Jesus doesn't live. He's dead, buried and lost somewhere.

Again, I am not trying to be disrespectful. I just have lost faith in Jesus Christ. If you want to attack the topic, great. The author, please PM to relieve the forum members.

I havent read any of this thread
But what i have understood is that Jesus died on the cross to pay the price for our sins. Why did he do that? Because he loves us. thats really the only answer. It really is mind blowing, because God didn't have to choose to save us, but he did because he loves us. I really feel for you Tarlam because its not as easy as everyone says it is to be a christian, i mean Jesus in a way did live for us, because of his death no matter what we do is covered by him. The question of why doesn't it matter if we sin then is answered by if we truly belive in him, then we should not want to sin. I mean its not that easy, we still will struggle but God helps us through it.

Has it ever occured to you that Jesus may not have existed? Does that mitigate anything?

It isnt' easy being christian..of course not. When you've set up a construct like original sin...it sure ain't.

No that has never occurred to me. I fully believe that Jesus did exist and that he fulfilled everything in the Bible

Why do you believe he exists? Other than the bible there is scant evidence.

but, if he didn't, would that change things for you?

Fulfilled? According to who/what? Not the old testament.

BTW, it is very telling that when you choose to use the word bible you use the new testament...otherwise you wouldn't be making some of your statements.