Jesus Christ

[sheepshead]

[Tarlam!]

If you don't want to contribute, that's fine. But I would ask you politely to no longer disturb this thread.

[sheepshead]

If you don't want to contribute, that's fine. But I would ask you politely to no longer disturb this thread.

Go Fuck Yourself you sick asshole. Do not presume to tell me when, how or where to post. The fact you stalk me and insult me at every turn needs to be addressed. And since no one affiliated with this site will do it(quite the contrary) I shall. Now...LEAVE ME ALONE.

[sheepshead]

Thank you Freak Out.

Sheep, maybe in Chicago, people "ask questions" in a statement form? Can you enlighten us on that?

As to me stalking you, HAAA! I was a JSO poster well before you. I had 5000 posts there before you raised your woolly head. But, unbeknownst to you, there was an exodus from JSO of which I amongst many were a part. I admit, I still visited that place from time to time to see who was still posting.

And, I saw with disgust what you were all about. I called you out about it when you got here openly and after your PM tirades also privately.

Be a man and tell the truth. I am glad to.

Thank you again for ruining my thread.

Like I said...

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't think that's true at all. If it's false, then it all comes down to acting how you want to be treated. You act ethically because that is what you expect out of others and there's no longer an entity to forgive you if you screw up. Screw up and you have to live with what you did.

But Tex, you talk a good game, but you don't walk the walk. That is what people see.

I'm neither a politician nor a preacher. If I was either, it would be in my self-interest to care what others think.

The good old Golden Rule--which you so eloquently stated--is, of course, Christian doctrine.

You'd be correct in what you say if you substitute the word "expect" for the word "want" to be treated--barring the existence of God, of course, which I assume is where you are coming from, Ziggy. Acting "ethically" in that scenario would only be logical if you rationally believe others will act ethically toward you. And the only reason that is even true to a very limited extent is religion--specifically OUR religion. Certainly, some other religions teach something similar to the Golden Rule, but the very prominent one currently being discussed over in FYI most certainly does not.

Seeing good in people is a very admirable trait, Ziggy, but it is only realistic among people where Judeo-Christian principles dominate the population. In places like that--places like America--even atheists get treated decently--for the most part.

Like most of the time, you are wrong again.

The golden rule didn't spring outta christianity...infact, there is little about christianity that is unique.

the golden rule has it's origins in greek philosophy.

Lastly, if is hilarious for you to say that is christian when it is based on Leviticus...which as far as i recall was the old testament..dont' believe there were any christians.

First it's Greek, then it's based on Leviticus. Make up your mind!

So is it your position that Christians don't recognize merely the book of Leviticus? Or do you think they/we don't recognize the whole Old Testament?

Surely you can do better than that.

Again, you are diverting from the main discussion--where you are hopelessly wrong--that ethical behavior is only rational when there is an expectation of ethical behavior toward you--and THAT if true at all, is only true because of the Judeo-Christian heritage and values in this country and other civilized western countries.

[texaspackerbacker]

Discussion promoting the so-called Gnostic Gospels might be more credible if it wasn't the A-gnostic posters in here doing the promoting.

There is a degree of logic and rational thought, and a degree of acceptance on faith involved in Christian belief. That degree of each varies with different people. Acceptance of the Bible as the inspired Word of God--and therefore, infallible extends beyond the writing to the compilation--which includes leaving out certain "gospels" which may or may not have divergent viewpoints.

[MadtownPacker]

Thank you Freak Out.

Sheep, maybe in Chicago, people "ask questions" in a statement form? Can you enlighten us on that?

As to me stalking you, HAAA! I was a JSO poster well before you. I had 5000 posts there before you raised your woolly head. But, unbeknownst to you, there was an exodus from JSO of which I amongst many were a part. I admit, I still visited that place from time to time to see who was still posting.

And, I saw with disgust what you were all about. I called you out about it when you got here openly and after your PM tirades also privately.

Be a man and tell the truth. I am glad to.

Thank you again for ruining my thread.

Like I said...

Stop your stupid shit or wait on the new guy to reactivate you.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: Jesus Christ

The #1 criteria of the messiah is to bring heaven upon earth. Now, i'm willing to grant you that we are as close to heaven as possible with Obama...yet, i think many jews and christians would have a hard time thinking this is heaven.

Observations and questions.

Some in the Christian faith maintain that Christ did bring heaven on earth, if only all people would freely follow his teachings.

Question: People of Jewish faith maintain that their messiah has not yet arrived. What would the the messiah they wait for be like? Would he/she be like Jesus is depicted or like something else? What exactly is heaven on earth supposed to be like?

(These are both meant to be serious)

1. The christians that are saying this (which i'm not familiar with) are just echoing judiasm, well Rabbi Maimon. In order for the messiah to come good acts must be performed..fulfilling 613 mitzvot. Tikkun Olam

I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the moshiach, and though he may tarry, still I await him every day.

Maimon

The kicker is of course that the last ones are the hardest to do and most be done communally.

Maimon felt that the messiah won't be known by miracles, etc, but by leading the jews to a better observance of the torah and mitzvot. After the jews fall in line, then the messiah will lead the rest of the world to serve god.

But, more importantly, those Xians have altered the conditions of the messiah. According to the bible, the messiah will establish a gov't in Israel that is the center for all world gov't (scary for you conservs who worry about world gov), rebuild the temple, establish jewish law as the law of the land, etc.

Those Xians are kidding themselves if they think following jesus's teachings would bring about those things.

2. I guess that would depend on how well versed they are. But, i would expect the moschiach to be a man....if i really believed in it. Why? I'll answer below.

Heaven on earth: well, what is prayed for is...ingathering of the exiles; restoration of the religious courts of justice; an end of wickedness, sin and heresy; reward to the righteous; rebuilding of Jerusalem; restoration of the line of King David; and restoration of Temple service.

BTW, just as i'm honest about chistianity, so am i about judiasm. Many modern scholars feel the messiah is a "newer" concept as it wasn't in the torah. Prolly something to do with jews being in bondage and wishing to be free.

Lastly, when i use the term messiah, don't think it is the same as yours...savior. The moschiach doesn't translate to messiah..the notion of a divine or semi divine being who will sacrifice himself for man's sin is yours only.

Unfortunately, the term messiah has been so ingrained with your concept that the term really can't be used with judiasm.

The moschiach means, the annointed one. So, it means the one annointed with oil, the common practice back then for kings. So, the moschiach will be the one who is annointed as king when the end is near.

So, using the bible, it would be a man..not a woman, as back then women weren't kings. BUT, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE MOSCHIACH WILL NOT BE A GOD, DEMI GOD, OR SUPERNATURAL BEING. The moschiach must be a human being.

There are a bunch of other things that the moschiach must be: related to king david, versed in jewish law, observant, great military leader, charismatic, etc.

Also, there are many messiahs...or rather, in each time there is a person born who can be the messiah. If that person dies without fulfilling..then they weren't the messiah. So, jesus may have had the POTENTIAL of being the messiah..but, he wasn't.

And, if we are rating those who came close to being the messiah, biblicly speaking..well, even then jesus falls way short. Bar Kokhba beats him hands down..but, like jesus...the romans killed him.

I'm quite positive that Obama isn't related to david...so for the jews, the conservative messiah jokes just fall flat.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Btw ty, point out any promise in the old testament that wasnt fulfilled by Jesus

Charles, i answer this question in detail in response to Rand.

You question is kinda wierd/stupid. If he fulfilled, we would be living on heaven on earth as defined by the jews.

And, if he fulfilled...then why the second trip? Think.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Using the bible to justify the existence or meaning of Jesus is like Bush using the Niger reports of yellowcake uranium to justify attacking Iraq.

The bible is a bunch of stories culled. What was left out is just as important as what was included.

Or would you guys prefer to not know about the gospels according to Mary, Judas, Thomas, etc.

I would like to know more about these gospels that were left out of the bible. Is there a place where they are all consolidated that one could learn more about the whole truth.

Simply google those gospels.

Or, look for the apocrypha (spelling) or gnostics.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I don't think that's true at all. If it's false, then it all comes down to acting how you want to be treated. You act ethically because that is what you expect out of others and there's no longer an entity to forgive you if you screw up. Screw up and you have to live with what you did.

But Tex, you talk a good game, but you don't walk the walk. That is what people see.

I'm neither a politician nor a preacher. If I was either, it would be in my self-interest to care what others think.

The good old Golden Rule--which you so eloquently stated--is, of course, Christian doctrine.

You'd be correct in what you say if you substitute the word "expect" for the word "want" to be treated--barring the existence of God, of course, which I assume is where you are coming from, Ziggy. Acting "ethically" in that scenario would only be logical if you rationally believe others will act ethically toward you. And the only reason that is even true to a very limited extent is religion--specifically OUR religion. Certainly, some other religions teach something similar to the Golden Rule, but the very prominent one currently being discussed over in FYI most certainly does not.

Seeing good in people is a very admirable trait, Ziggy, but it is only realistic among people where Judeo-Christian principles dominate the population. In places like that--places like America--even atheists get treated decently--for the most part.

Like most of the time, you are wrong again.

The golden rule didn't spring outta christianity...infact, there is little about christianity that is unique.

the golden rule has it's origins in greek philosophy.

Lastly, if is hilarious for you to say that is christian when it is based on Leviticus...which as far as i recall was the old testament..dont' believe there were any christians.

First it's Greek, then it's based on Leviticus. Make up your mind!

So is it your position that Christians don't recognize merely the book of Leviticus? Or do you think they/we don't recognize the whole Old Testament?

Surely you can do better than that.

Again, you are diverting from the main discussion--where you are hopelessly wrong--that ethical behavior is only rational when there is an expectation of ethical behavior toward you--and THAT if true at all, is only true because of the Judeo-Christian heritage and values in this country and other civilized western countries.

Yes. I think you have it. The greeks invented it, jews coopted it. Is that difficult to follow.

Leviticus: Of course not. But, to then say it is christian and not acknowledge it as jewish just smacks of..well, stealing.

Who said ethical behavior had to be rational?

Sorry, but you are wrong. The golden rule exists throughout the world...a world that had no knowledge of jews or christians.

But, dont' let facts get in your way. You haven't thus far.

[texaspackerbacker]

OK, call it Judeo-Christian--there's no evidence of any "co-opting" from the Greeks. You spew as much hate about Judeo-Christian traditions, culture,and morality as you do about Christian stuff.

It's still just a diversion to the irrelevant like you are so famous for.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

OK, call it Judeo-Christian--there's no evidence of any "co-opting" from the Greeks. You spew as much hate about Judeo-Christian traditions, culture,and morality as you do about Christian stuff.

It's still just a diversion to the irrelevant like you are so famous for.

Greek: Hmm, the greeks didn't run the western world did they? Their influence isn't found throughout the mediterrean.

Why call it judeo christian. It is in the old testament. It is jewish.

And, again, sorry, but it universal. Confucious said it 500 years before jesus.

P.S. Please stop talking about Judeo Xian...as you don't follow any part of the Judeo. Infact, you hardly follow Xian.

[HowardRoark]

Re: Jesus Christ

The #1 criteria of the messiah is to bring heaven upon earth. Now, i'm willing to grant you that we are as close to heaven as possible with Obama...yet, i think many jews and christians would have a hard time thinking this is heaven.

Observations and questions.

Some in the Christian faith maintain that Christ did bring heaven on earth, if only all people would freely follow his teachings.

Question: People of Jewish faith maintain that their messiah has not yet arrived. What would the the messiah they wait for be like? Would he/she be like Jesus is depicted or like something else? What exactly is heaven on earth supposed to be like?

(These are both meant to be serious)

1. The christians that are saying this (which i'm not familiar with) are just echoing judiasm, well Rabbi Maimon. In order for the messiah to come good acts must be performed..fulfilling 613 mitzvot. Tikkun Olam

I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the moshiach, and though he may tarry, still I await him every day.

Maimon

The kicker is of course that the last ones are the hardest to do and most be done communally.

Maimon felt that the messiah won't be known by miracles, etc, but by leading the jews to a better observance of the torah and mitzvot. After the jews fall in line, then the messiah will lead the rest of the world to serve god.

But, more importantly, those Xians have altered the conditions of the messiah. According to the bible, the messiah will establish a gov't in Israel that is the center for all world gov't (scary for you conservs who worry about world gov), rebuild the temple, establish jewish law as the law of the land, etc.

Those Xians are kidding themselves if they think following jesus's teachings would bring about those things.

2. I guess that would depend on how well versed they are. But, i would expect the moschiach to be a man....if i really believed in it. Why? I'll answer below.

Heaven on earth: well, what is prayed for is...ingathering of the exiles; restoration of the religious courts of justice; an end of wickedness, sin and heresy; reward to the righteous; rebuilding of Jerusalem; restoration of the line of King David; and restoration of Temple service.

BTW, just as i'm honest about chistianity, so am i about judiasm. Many modern scholars feel the messiah is a "newer" concept as it wasn't in the torah. Prolly something to do with jews being in bondage and wishing to be free.

Lastly, when i use the term messiah, don't think it is the same as yours...savior. The moschiach doesn't translate to messiah..the notion of a divine or semi divine being who will sacrifice himself for man's sin is yours only.

Unfortunately, the term messiah has been so ingrained with your concept that the term really can't be used with judiasm.

The moschiach means, the annointed one. So, it means the one annointed with oil, the common practice back then for kings. So, the moschiach will be the one who is annointed as king when the end is near.

So, using the bible, it would be a man..not a woman, as back then women weren't kings. BUT, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE MOSCHIACH WILL NOT BE A GOD, DEMI GOD, OR SUPERNATURAL BEING. The moschiach must be a human being.

There are a bunch of other things that the moschiach must be: related to king david, versed in jewish law, observant, great military leader, charismatic, etc.

Also, there are many messiahs...or rather, in each time there is a person born who can be the messiah. If that person dies without fulfilling..then they weren't the messiah. So, jesus may have had the POTENTIAL of being the messiah..but, he wasn't.

And, if we are rating those who came close to being the messiah, biblicly speaking..well, even then jesus falls way short. Bar Kokhba beats him hands down..but, like jesus...the romans killed him.

I'm quite positive that Obama isn't related to david...so for the jews, the conservative messiah jokes just fall flat.

Just as an FYI Ty; you fulfill scripture.

[sheepshead]

Thank you Freak Out.

Sheep, maybe in Chicago, people "ask questions" in a statement form? Can you enlighten us on that?

As to me stalking you, HAAA! I was a JSO poster well before you. I had 5000 posts there before you raised your woolly head. But, unbeknownst to you, there was an exodus from JSO of which I amongst many were a part. I admit, I still visited that place from time to time to see who was still posting.

And, I saw with disgust what you were all about. I called you out about it when you got here openly and after your PM tirades also privately.

Be a man and tell the truth. I am glad to.

Thank you again for ruining my thread.

Like I said...

Stop your stupid shit or wait on the new guy to reactivate you.

Maybe it is time mad. Time for the mods and their little BFF's to find solace elsewhere perhaps.