OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[Patler]

I choose to debate your position Patler and I write to you ' the Packer fan '.

What amazes me is that any fan, or any person, not directly connected to the sport. Would allow such 'gamesmanship'. Based on personal feelings that any Pro athlete might have about a former employer. To emotionally impact him/her, ' the fan ' .

Why would 'any fan' ie you Patler. Be emotionally moved about something that is normal? Normal in life in general.

Do Pro athletes have a special clause to live by? After Favre left Green Bay should he have been cheering for Green Bay Packer success?

It happens all the time that athletes change teams thus loyalities. Patler, you and I are not Pro's. We are fans. We may have participated in amatuer sports where changing affiliation has a zero emotional impact on the future. Players on the other side are still wished well. Maybe you or I wanted that former team to lose badly and made that wish well known?

Whatever position one takes isn't it 'a free choice'?

Patler ... if you were a Pro athlete playing for a team and that team traded you. Would 'you' wish that team every success in the future?

Woodbuck; I don't know how to say this diplomatically, so I will be blunt, with apologies. I find your recent response to be extremely strange, based on your earlier statement.

I am not the least bit emotionally involved with the Favre matter. I merely responded to your allegation that Favre was beyond his initial hurt feelings. I think the facts indicate differently and I explained why. I was not derogatory in my comments about Favre. I merely stated the facts as I saw them. If that paints Favre in a bad light, so be it, but that is not my intention.

Is it unusual that Favre feel negatively toward the Packers? I doubt it, and nearly said so in my initial response to you. However; it is a strange acknowledgment coming from you. After all, it was you who argued that he, Favre, was not feeling animosity, that he had gotten over his hard feelings and now wished the Packers well. Now you seem to be supporting my interpretation, not your own initial argument.

While I think his continued animosity is not necessarily unusual, I am not ready to say it is common. Three years is a long time. Grieving tends to subside significantly by then. Generally, if it hasn't, it is an indication that a person may need some help sorting through their feelings and emotions. Hurt feelings should heal faster than that. Not that you ever get over it completely, but it should no longer consume you. I fear that Favre is still consumed by his anger. I see no other reason for him to encourage Peppers to beat GB as he did, when he did. I said at the time that it happened that it was a odd thought for him to have at that time. It was an odd subject for his conversational prioritization with Julius Peppers, on the last day they are likely to meet on the field as competitors. His desire to see the Packers fail was an unusually high priority three seasons after his departure from GB.

For some reason you remain emotionally hinged to Favre, to the point that you ignore many negative facts, no matter how blatant. I have never understood how any fan can so emotionally attach themselves to an athlete that they put them on god-like pedestals, and continually ignore their negative sides.

[Patler]

WB it has nothing to do with free choice or emotions. You tried to paint Favre as someone who had gotten over the Packer situation and had reached the point of wishing success for the Packers. From his comments to Peppers, that is clearly not the case. He's a bitter old man, that's all.

You said it much more succinctly than I did !!!

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck; I don't know how to say this diplomatically, so I will be blunt, with apologies. I find your recent response to be extremely strange, based on your earlier statement.

I am not the least bit emotionally involved with the Favre matter. I merely responded to your allegation that Favre was beyond his initial hurt feelings. I think the facts indicate differently and I explained why. I was not derogatory in my comments about Favre. I merely stated the facts as I saw them. If that paints Favre in a bad light, so be it, but that is not my intention.

Is it unusual that Favre feel negatively toward the Packers? I doubt it, and nearly said so in my initial response to you. However; it is a strange acknowledgment coming from you. After all, it was you who argued that he, Favre, was not feeling animosity, that he had gotten over his hard feelings and now wished the Packers well. Now you seem to be supporting my interpretation, not your own initial argument.

While I think his continued animosity is not necessarily unusual, I am not ready to say it is common. Three years is a long time. Grieving tends to subside significantly by then. Generally, if it hasn't, it is an indication that a person may need some help sorting through their feelings and emotions. Hurt feelings should heal faster than that. Not that you ever get over it completely, but it should no longer consume you. I fear that Favre is still consumed by his anger. I see no other reason for him to encourage Peppers to beat GB as he did, when he did. I said at the time that it happened that it was a odd thought for him to have at that time. It was an odd subject for his conversational prioritization with Julius Peppers, on the last day they are likely to meet on the field as competitors. His desire to see the Packers fail was an unusually high priority three seasons after his departure from GB.

For some reason you remain emotionally hinged to Favre, to the point that you ignore many negative facts, no matter how blatant. I have never understood how any fan can so emotionally attach themselves to an athlete that they put them on god-like pedestals, and continually ignore their negative sides.

"I find your recent response to be extremely strange, based on your earlier statement." Patler

I'm not at all sure what response you refer to Patler. I will stick to the last question in my last post to you.

What is strange about claiming it might (might not) be abnormal for anyone to not wish anyone or any organization best wishes after departing that relationship for whatever reason? It's a personal choice. If the facts prove that Favre feels animosity for the Packer Organization that is simply of his free will. Animosities are sometimes carried fr. one generation to the next. As a bystander it's not my position of choice to judge the parties involved.

In this instance I am a mere fan. I observe all the bad feelings with only some amusement. It's not my place to choose sides. I'm a mere fan of the NFL and as a Packer fan try to detach myself from any of the 'he said-he said' malarky. So much of what we read on the Favre issues are merely media driven hype. I don't know nor really care what's published.

"I merely responded to your allegation that Favre was beyond his initial hurt feelings. " Patler

Favre clearly made that as a statement of fact in his recognition of the issue on his final games post interview as a NY Jet. He clearly said that he felt both sides had moved on. It was no longer an issue.

If Julius Peppers threw him under the bus with reports of Favre hoping that the Bears defeated the Packers. That is a mere rumour. It should not be held against Favre as anything more than an unsubstatiated claim by Julius Peppers. It is just rumor.

"Is it unusual that Favre feel negatively toward the Packers? I doubt it, and nearly said so in my initial response to you." Patler

So we agree here.

Your position that any such slam against Favre as to whether he told Peppers or not that 'he hoped the Bears would defeat the Packers' ... is moot.

It wouldn't be unusual for Favre to feel negative against the Packers. You agree that isn't an abnormal stance if that is 'the truth'.

"While I think his continued animosity is not necessarily unusual, I am not ready to say it is common." Patler

That's a debatable topic Patler that would lead nowhere. It so often comes down to a judgement based position by anyone allowing the matter to affect them over any parties concerned. To act emotional over matters that are beyond our reach of full understanding as we are mere fans and not inside the parties involved. I feel in the Favrew issue thathis claim that both sides made mistakes is most likely the case. I leave it there.

"I fear that Favre is still consumed by his anger. " Patler

Have you personally observed Favre's anger? If you havn't then how can you ever offer such a possibility?

" I see no other reason for him to encourage Peppers to beat GB as he did, when he did. I said at the time that it happened that it was a odd thought for him to have at that time. It was an odd subject for his conversational prioritization with Julius Peppers, on the last day they are likely to meet on the field as competitors. His desire to see the Packers fail was an unusually high priority three seasons after his departure from GB. "

No. If 'in fact' Favre wanted that or a Packer defeat by the Bears. That's only gamesnmanship. If any two teams are matched up it's not abnormal to choose one team over the other. Maybe Favre did support the Bears. That isn't reason to attack him as some suffering emotional incompetant. The Bears and Vikings are rivals of the Packers. Is it abnormal for any member of those teams to support the other in defeating 'the Pack'? I say hardly. I don't see that as abnormal rather normal.

What does three years after have to do with the price of tea in China? Favre played on a rival team last season.

" For some reason you remain emotionally hinged to Favre, to the point that you ignore many negative facts, no matter how blatant." Patler

No Patler. I am not...NOT...emotionally hinged to Brett Favre. That is me telling you 'the TRUTH'. I will always take the stance that Favre was a fine QB in the NFL. End of story.

Please. Don't interpret or impose an emotional tag on me when that tag is wrong. I do not feel emotionally attached to anyone that cannot raise such emotion in me for a valid reason. I have never met Brett Fvare. I likely never will meet Brett Favre. I certainly do not defend some of his past behaviours that hurt so many of his fans and certainly took his immediate and other family to task. I got right there after a lot of analysis and thinking.

Brettt Favre and what he does with his private life is no concern of mine. I supported Favre the football player and in that regard alone. Brett Fvare was a very solid QB in the NFL. I support his record as such overall and the rest of it is certainly beyond my scope to judge. He like me is human and errors.

" I have never understood how any fan can so emotionally attach themselves to an athlete that they put them on god-like pedestals, and continually ignore their negative sides. " Patler

1. I'm not emotionally attached to Brett Favre.

2. I have never placed Brett Favre on any God-like pedestal

3. I have moved on as a fan of the Packers ( Re: anytrhing Brett Favre) and it's my position that a lot more here at PackerRats should take the same stride. It's the emotional outbursts of those people that I feel paints them in a poor light. They are who they are and I am who I am and we co-exist here. One big happy family. (-:

4. Believe me and I am onn record as saying that I wasn't pleased with all the scandal that Brett Favre was faced with. I believe he ws guilty of some of the claims against him. He has and possibly will continue to pat whatever price. All that is beyond my realm of concern.

I supported and will support Brett Favre the NFL QB 'only', and it ends there.

Now Patler after all that. Have we really begun to debate the issue I raised in the previous post?

GO PACKERS!

[RashanGary]

Well,l where do you go with that one, Patler


We should only judge Favre on his chosen words in the media, not any actions or real-life words that say otherwise, haha. Now that is your typical Favre fan. Woodbuck does not disappoint.

[RashanGary]

So anyway. . . .

Unions rock!

[Pugger]

I am not Patler, but, I'd like to answer this part.

Yes, I would continue to root for the team that gave me a home for 16 seasons, and paid me $100m dollars over my career. I would root for them to win every time I had nothing on the line with my current team. But, then again, I'm honest enough that I would accept some responsibility for being traded, as I was very unclear and non-committal regarding my future plans related to playing football. I'm honest enough to recognize that had I not done that for 7 straight seasons, perhaps, I would not have been replaced, nor traded.

But, that's me, and not the ego maniac that you're discussing....

+1

[Pugger]

Should Favre have been actively wishing ill upon his former team, nearly 3 years after leaving them?

He sounds like someone who needs to let it go as well.

No kidding. It now appears it is only he and his fans that need to let it go. The Packers and most Packer fans already have.

[Pugger]

"I find your recent response to be extremely strange, based on your earlier statement." Patler

I'm not at all sure what response you refer to Patler. I will stick to the last question in my last post to you.

What is strange about claiming it might (might not) be abnormal for anyone to not wish anyone or any organization best wishes after departing that relationship for whatever reason? It's a personal choice. If the facts prove that Favre feels animosity for the Packer Organization that is simply of his free will. Animosities are sometimes carried fr. one generation to the next. As a bystander it's not my position of choice to judge the parties involved.

In this instance I am a mere fan. I observe all the bad feelings with only some amusement. It's not my place to choose sides. I'm a mere fan of the NFL and as a Packer fan try to detach myself from any of the 'he said-he said' malarky. So much of what we read on the Favre issues are merely media driven hype. I don't know nor really care what's published.

"I merely responded to your allegation that Favre was beyond his initial hurt feelings. " Patler

Favre clearly made that as a statement of fact in his recognition of the issue on his final games post interview as a NY Jet. He clearly said that he felt both sides had moved on. It was no longer an issue.

If Julius Peppers threw him under the bus with reports of Favre hoping that the Bears defeated the Packers. That is a mere rumour. It should not be held against Favre as anything more than an unsubstatiated claim by Julius Peppers. It is just rumor.

"Is it unusual that Favre feel negatively toward the Packers? I doubt it, and nearly said so in my initial response to you." Patler

So we agree here.

Your position that any such slam against Favre as to whether he told Peppers or not that 'he hoped the Bears would defeat the Packers' ... is moot.

It wouldn't be unusual for Favre to feel negative against the Packers. You agree that isn't an abnormal stance if that is 'the truth'.

"While I think his continued animosity is not necessarily unusual, I am not ready to say it is common." Patler

That's a debatable topic Patler that would lead nowhere. It so often comes down to a judgement based position by anyone allowing the matter to affect them over any parties concerned. To act emotional over matters that are beyond our reach of full understanding as we are mere fans and not inside the parties involved. I feel in the Favrew issue thathis claim that both sides made mistakes is most likely the case. I leave it there.

"I fear that Favre is still consumed by his anger. " Patler

Have you personally observed Favre's anger? If you havn't then how can you ever offer such a possibility?

" I see no other reason for him to encourage Peppers to beat GB as he did, when he did. I said at the time that it happened that it was a odd thought for him to have at that time. It was an odd subject for his conversational prioritization with Julius Peppers, on the last day they are likely to meet on the field as competitors. His desire to see the Packers fail was an unusually high priority three seasons after his departure from GB. "

No. If 'in fact' Favre wanted that or a Packer defeat by the Bears. That's only gamesnmanship. If any two teams are matched up it's not abnormal to choose one team over the other. Maybe Favre did support the Bears. That isn't reason to attack him as some suffering emotional incompetant. The Bears and Vikings are rivals of the Packers. Is it abnormal for any member of those teams to support the other in defeating 'the Pack'? I say hardly. I don't see that as abnormal rather normal.

What does three years after have to do with the price of tea in China? Favre played on a rival team last season.

" For some reason you remain emotionally hinged to Favre, to the point that you ignore many negative facts, no matter how blatant." Patler

No Patler. I am not...NOT...emotionally hinged to Brett Favre. That is me telling you 'the TRUTH'. I will always take the stance that Favre was a fine QB in the NFL. End of story.

Please. Don't interpret or impose an emotional tag on me when that tag is wrong. I do not feel emotionally attached to anyone that cannot raise such emotion in me for a valid reason. I have never met Brett Fvare. I likely never will meet Brett Favre. I certainly do not defend some of his past behaviours that hurt so many of his fans and certainly took his immediate and other family to task. I got right there after a lot of analysis and thinking.

Brettt Favre and what he does with his private life is no concern of mine. I supported Favre the football player and in that regard alone. Brett Fvare was a very solid QB in the NFL. I support his record as such overall and the rest of it is certainly beyond my scope to judge. He like me is human and errors.

" I have never understood how any fan can so emotionally attach themselves to an athlete that they put them on god-like pedestals, and continually ignore their negative sides. " Patler

1. I'm not emotionally attached to Brett Favre.

2. I have never placed Brett Favre on any God-like pedestal

3. I have moved on as a fan of the Packers ( Re: anytrhing Brett Favre) and it's my position that a lot more here at PackerRats should take the same stride. It's the emotional outbursts of those people that I feel paints them in a poor light. They are who they are and I am who I am and we co-exist here. One big happy family. (-:

4. Believe me and I am onn record as saying that I wasn't pleased with all the scandal that Brett Favre was faced with. I believe he ws guilty of some of the claims against him. He has and possibly will continue to pat whatever price. All that is beyond my realm of concern.

I supported and will support Brett Favre the NFL QB 'only', and it ends there.

Now Patler after all that. Have we really begun to debate the issue I raised in the previous post?

GO PACKERS!

"The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks".

[Scott Campbell]

I'm just glad I sided with Ted in this fight.

It looks like Woody's trying to forget he sided with Bert. But we remember.

[woodbuck27]

I'll lay this dow before responding to some of the posts I just read. What is your analysis of this bit of NFL news. I havn't as yet checked for a reaction fr. any other rumor sites. I have too much else on my plate today to look into it. Frankly I'm again surprized that Favre would contimplate a return unless that prospect is about his love of competing in the game, and that with Carolina? That's a dubious choice of destination to say the least in my estimation:

Will Favre quarterback Carolina?

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/275030-will-favre-quarterback-carolina?eref=fromSI&eref=fromSI&utm_source=bleacherreport.com&utm_medium=referral

GO PACKERS!

[Patler]

Now Patler after all that. Have we really begun to debate the issue I raised in the previous post?

Which was ... what ?????????????

Apparently, I have difficulty deciphering your intended issues from the obvious issues I perceive in your writings.

[woodbuck27]

"I'm just glad I sided with Ted in this fight.

It looks like Woody's trying to forget he sided with Bert. But we remember." Scott Campbell

There you go again. Why do you need to act like the school yard bully and drum up some audience for your antics.

"It looks like Woody's trying to forget he sided with Bert." Scott Campbell

Did you write that while thinking to yourself? or Are you asking for a consensus of some opinion you have about me?

Why not simply post me with a question and if it's mannerly presented I will respond to you in kind. Can you understand that Scott.

Otherwise I refuse to allow 'the Scott Campbell Show' to go on stage at my expense or on my time.

Scott. It's Brett Favre not Bert Favre.

Now to your post as it does deserve a response.

I wasn't taking sides. I was trying to determined what really happened that resulted in FRavre's trade to the NY Jets.

Going back and looking at it all now it's my feeling that the Packer Organization should have simply informed Brett Favre on plans to move forward at the QB position and that Aaron Rodgers would be considered the #1 starting QB and it was Aaron Rodgers job to loose.

The Packers could have, irregardless of Favre's response, then informed us the fan of their intended change in direction. Favre could have then asked for an outright release. If that was refused he could have asked to be traded. I never thought it was wise on behalf of the Packer Organization to make an outright offer to Favre of $20 Million$ to simply retire.

I believe that offer doesn't necessarily pait the organization in a good light as any fan familiar with Favre might easily see that he would desire a return to the game after his outstanding final season as a Packer. I feel that both Favre and the Packer Organization made errors in how all that was handled. Favre as much as defined that when he reported that was his opinion in the last Jets game post interview.

Am I the only member here that read that interview and his response to the question as to how he then felt about being traded from the Packers?

GO Packers!

[RashanGary]

Is it just me or has Favre's image degraded?

[woodbuck27]

Originally Posted by woodbuck27

Now Patler after all that. Have we really begun to debate the issue I raised in the previous post?
Which was ... what ?????????????

Apparently, I have difficulty deciphering your intended issues from the obvious issues I perceive in your writings.

Last edited by Patler; 03-28-2011 at ............................ '03:05 PM'.

Patler your obviously not on American soil. Enjoy thast experience.

Your a poster here that I respect. You make every effort to ensure the accuracy of so called facts on this forum.

It really escapes me that a man of your intelligence would ever allow himself to get caught up in discussion or pay attention to any meaningless rumor like what J. Peppers had released to the media over Brett Favre. I do not want to debate with you as much as I hop3ed (hope) to ally a poster such as you with my attitude to such romors.

It's useless information. Therefore only for those who enjoy sensationalizing such crap.
I do not intend a woodbuck27 Vs Patler debate as some entertasinment feature at PackerRats.

I have clearly elaborated on my positions as an NFL and Packer fan. I have clearly sted that I do NOT place Brett Favre on any pedestal moreso a GOD like one. Come on !!!

I responded politely and all in terms for you to understand me better and be fair in terms of how you see me.

Apparently, I have difficulty deciphering your intended issues Patler

I have clearly stated that ' if in fact ' Favre hoped that the Bears would defeat the Packers that that wasn't an abnormal response. Rather one that could mirror any other Pro atletes response given 'that players previous history with the team' he was employed with and now hoped to fail somehow. Such a response is common gamesmanship and not at all in the appaling realm of "how could he do such a thing' discussion.

To go all antsy over such media reports is small. Isn't it really a 'so what' thing? No big deal. Pointless to discuss to any great length as it's just rumor. That it's not at all creepy or far fetched. Even if ' in fact ' it's true?

Patler I have things to do today so I will not be able to respond till any post back to me till this evening. Have a nice day.

GO PACKERS!

[RashanGary]

Woodbuck, I think you're the only person on this forum that believes a word you're saying. Favre retired, the Packers moved on, when Favre tried to come back they told him, "no" and he threw a fit. That's not both sides screwing up. That's Favre screwing up.

You say Favre is happy for the Packers to succeed. His words to Julius Peppers show otherwise.



You can just go away with this talk, woody. Before you got here, we had more pressing things to discuss in this thread like politics and labor strife.