6-10 ............. Who is to blame?

[MJZiggy]

IMO much of this still goes back to the DL

We let Corey Williams go and brough in nobody remotely capable of doing what he did.........and inside pass rush from the DT position.

Jenkins was playing hurt much of last year and is hurt again. He really didn't produce much last year so I can't just say, "Jenkins is hurt".

KGB coming off surgery; gotta see that and make plans for the possiblity that he does not recover.

You guys can lay the blame; but either the coaches, or TT, had faith in who we have and felt they could pick up the slack.
It's not getting done

Harrell has been just a guy
Many others on that DL are as well
None of these young guys have really stepped up their play

And Vanilla Bob surely maximizes their ability on the defensive sides with his creative schemes that are sure to cause confusion to the opposeing offense

Bottom line is our personnell at DL do not get it done.

KGB got cut. With KGB, Williams gone and the injuries, etc. I do think DL needs to be addressed...

[Fritz]

How would people feel about Ron Wolf's approach years ago when Moss was the dominant force in the division? just draft a bunch of guys in the first three rounds in your position of need, and hope one or two work out?

Would folks like it if TT passed on very talented players at other positions and just kept taking defensive linemen?

I think I'd have mixed feelings.

[RashanGary]

I blame Ted. It's not the end of the world if he gets it fixed, but the GM is wehre the buck stops and he's had enough time to take blame for everythign good and bad with this team.

He gets a lot of credit for a lot of things, but he has to do better and it has to start with that shit pile we call a defensive line.

[RashanGary]

Would folks like it if TT passed on very talented players at other positions and just kept taking defensive linemen?

I think I'd have mixed feelings.

I completely agree, but at some point either you have them or you don't and I don't care why. It's a results industry. He's shown enough good to give him a minimum of 2 more seasons, probably 3 or 4, but eventually you can't use the excuse "there weren't any good ones available". Eventually you have to have answers, not excuses.

As far as I'm concerned the DL is approaching that. He started with a decent line and it's crumbling. That much is not Mike Shermans fault, although most of everything else was. There is a slight benefit of the doubt with how bad the team was when he took over, but it's not going to excuse antoher year of this on the DL.

[bobblehead]

Would folks like it if TT passed on very talented players at other positions and just kept taking defensive linemen?

I think I'd have mixed feelings.

I completely agree, but at some point either you have them or you don't and I don't care why. It's a results industry. He's shown enough good to give him a minimum of 2 more seasons, probably 3 or 4, but eventually you can't use the excuse "there weren't any good ones available". Eventually you have to have answers, not excuses.

As far as I'm concerned the DL is approaching that. He started with a decent line and it's crumbling. That much is not Mike Shermans fault, although most of everything else was. There is a slight benefit of the doubt with how bad the team was when he took over, but it's not going to excuse antoher year of this on the DL.

If he started with such a decent line why did we have to replace 3 out of 4 starters in the first 2 years? He started with KGB being shitty against the run, some guys named washington, lee, and I don't even remember. Basically lets be honest, he took over a team with exactly ONE good DL (kampman) and another one developed (Jenkins). When we had a decent KGB rushing, and CWilliams on passing downs we were solid. Losing those 2 things made a huge difference. He has replaced everyone else he inherited and none of those guys are playing stellar anywhere else...most aren't playing at all. You act like he isn't responsible for pickett and Jolly.

We are playing a very tough schedule this season, have only been blown out ONCE, and could very well win out and challenge for the division yet. NOt likely I admit, but what would this board look like then? TT has had ONE draft reach the 3 year mark, he has completely overhauled a SHIT roster and made it young and talented. Is every player an All Pro?? No, but ffs what do you expect?

People whine about how horrible he is at "making the big move" yet he was right to the wire on Arrington, Moss, Gonzalez, and even in the mix on a washed up Taylor. He isn't willing to trade an entire draft for Allen and then pay him enough to piss off Kampman and everyone else...boo fucking hoo.

I bet if we finish soft and get to play a low end schedule next year you will all be kissing his hairy bean bag when we go 12-4. If we finish strong you'll all be doing it a month from now.

[cpk1994]

People whine about how horrible he is at "making the big move" yet he was right to the wire on Arrington, Moss, Gonzalez, and even in the mix on a washed up Taylor. He isn't willing to trade an entire draft for Allen and then pay him enough to piss off Kampman and everyone else...boo fucking hoo.

This paragraph right here should be distributed to everyone who continues to push the myth that TT doesn't go after anybody. It should also include Adam Vinitieri as he made a huge offer to him. The whole "TT doesn't go after anyone" is a complete crock.

[Gunakor]

Who is to blame,well that is pretty easy TT all the way as usual. The scary thing is this same thread will be up next year unless TT is gone.

At first I thought about pointing out to you that Thompson fielded basically the same squad as he did last year, with the notable exception being at the QB position but Rodgers has played up to and exceeded all expectations and has comparable numbers to the guy who played the position the previous year; the essential differences being things like "schedule" and "injuries", both of which we were in better shape last year than this year; and that really if you're going to be happy with the roster that went 13-3 last year you ought to be happy with this year's roster, since they are essentially the same and if you are happy with the roster, you ought to have no beef with the GM once the season has started.



Then I realized it wouldn't be worth the trouble to type all that because you're just a troll.

Injuries are part of football, so is luck. C'est la guerre. If we played close games like we did last year, we'd be 10-2 or 9-3 at this point.

Call me what ever you want but I will be back to remind you that your beloved TT has fucked up again. The man is the downfall to what was once a great football team.

So this was a GREAT football team under Sherman?

[PackerBlues]

So this was a GREAT football team under Sherman?

they never had a losing season under sherman.

[Gunakor]

So this was a GREAT football team under Sherman?

they never had a losing season under sherman.

They never advanced past the divisional round of the playoffs under Sherman either.

And technically, 4-12 was Shermans fault even if he wasn't GM. Shermans awful cap management led us to that point where we had to dump salary. Say goodbye to Whale and Rivera and our running game. Up until this year we were still dealing with Sherman's fuckups - KGB was still on the books at like 7 million per year.

Fortunately for all of Sherman's tenure as GM, he had players inherited from the Wolf era that were good enough to overcome his incompetence.

[RashanGary]

bobblehead, I'm considered by many here to be the leader of the TT fan club. Trust me, I think he's done some impressive things even if the record this year doesn't indicate it.

That said, I'm not going to pretend he is perfect. Last year we had a really good DL. This year it's really bad. KGB wasn't his fault. Corey Williams was a long term decision that hurts now. I do blame him for the Jenkins injury because you always have to count on meaningfull injury on the DL. We could afford zero and that is a problem.

I'm not freaking out saying he sucks. I think quite the opposite. I'm simply saying that he has to fix this DL. This is a great year for DE's and there are two big time DTs' that fit what we do (Raji and Terrance Cody). I don't know exactly how the draft is going to fall but we should be able to pick up some talent on the DL if we want to. I'm not saying pass up greater talent to get it, but if you have 5 guys you like and one is a DL then don't trade back 5 spots and grab the reciever this year. Just sit tight and take the DL. Eventually the, "nohtinig was available excuse will run dry". Again, he might fix it and I have a lot of confidence in him to do it. If he doesn't, he's not getting a free pass from me. If he does, I'll still be right near the head of the TT lover club.

[bobblehead]

bobblehead, I'm considered by many here to be the leader of the TT fan club. Trust me, I think he's done some impressive things even if the record this year doesn't indicate it.

That said, I'm not going to pretend he is perfect. Last year we had a really good DL. This year it's really bad. KGB wasn't his fault. Corey Williams was a long term decision that hurts now. I do blame him for the Jenkins injury because you always have to count on meaningfull injury on the DL. We could afford zero and that is a problem.

I'm not freaking out saying he sucks. I think quite the opposite. I'm simply saying that he has to fix this DL. This is a great year for DE's and there are two big time DTs' that fit what we do (Raji and Terrance Cody). I don't know exactly how the draft is going to fall but we should be able to pick up some talent on the DL if we want to. I'm not saying pass up greater talent to get it, but if you have 5 guys you like and one is a DL then don't trade back 5 spots and grab the reciever this year. Just sit tight and take the DL. Eventually the, "nohtinig was available excuse will run dry". Again, he might fix it and I have a lot of confidence in him to do it. If he doesn't, he's not getting a free pass from me. If he does, I'll still be right near the head of the TT lover club.

I know you are being fair in your assessment, and when I quoted your post I was using it as a template for all the whining going on. I wasn't trying to call you out specifically. You have been on the TT bandwagon as have I from as long as I have been on PR.

You are right, he has made mistakes, but the DL he handled almost as well as he could have. I would love to see a peppers or haynesworth signing, but TT is paying guys what he thinks they are worth. I wish I knew what he might have offered wiliams before he tagged him, I honestly would like to know. If we had a shot to retain him for a reasonable contract that would be on TT, but if CWill was intent on FA then TT did the best he could. KGB....well, he got old on us and never recovered from injury. Jenkins...what can you do, he got hurt. Harell is on him, but might work out yet, and he was at least trying. I agree he is the bottom line, so it falls on him, but in the case of our DL, not a ton he could have done imo.

[Fritz]

So this was a GREAT football team under Sherman?

they never had a losing season under sherman.

Never got to the conference championship game under Sherman.

Lost to Atlanta and Minny in the first round at home under Sherman.

Tarlam reminded me of these facts in another thread - and he was right.

[PackerBlues]

Fortunately for all of Sherman's tenure as GM, he had players inherited from the Wolf era that were good enough to overcome his incompetence.

[Gunakor]

Fortunately for all of Sherman's tenure as GM, he had players inherited from the Wolf era that were good enough to overcome his incompetence.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself PB.

[MOBB DEEP]

Fortunately for all of Sherman's tenure as GM, he had players inherited from the Wolf era that were good enough to overcome his incompetence.

lol