GAME ON- PEPPERS TO BECOME UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT

[Fritz]

For those of you already bashing TT for not going after or trading for Peppers, Waldo has pointed out in another thread that the Panthers cannot franchise Peppers and trade him if they have any hope of re-signing their stud left tackle.

So Carolina may not even franchise Peppers.

Some of you guys want the Packers to run the team the way Jerry Jones runs the Cowboys - sign every big name that you've heard of, screw how old he is or whether he would work in the system employed or gosh, whether he even wants to come to Green Bay.

And how many NFC championship games has Jerry Jones's methods gotten him since 1995?

[Waldo]

Dude you're whack. Kampman's pay day could easily double. He is getting on average 5.25 mil a year, next to nothing compared to JA.

JA is a RDE, Kamp is a LDE.

Kamp is in the top 5 highest paid LDE's. If he want's more money, he needs to move to the right and not disappear up agaisnt LT's.

Kamp is not nearly as good as the majority of Packer fans think that he is.

DE is DE is DE. Kampman doesn't have a say over where he plays. The coaches do. I suspect he comes close to doubling his earnings.

Kamp is very good. I get that you're a n00b, but c'mon, Kamp is a top 10 end in the NFL without a doubt.

Must not visit FF eh, or the old GPPG board. I had nearly 2500 at the GBPG board and am closing in on 10K at FF.

That list of the Packers cap that was posted here the other day....

That was my post at FF, I independently track the cap and have for a few years.

(as a sidenote I do make sigs too, this one is one of my creations, I am willing to fill single player requests (I hate doing multi's)).

A DE is not a DE. Kamp is a tenacious bull rusher that is mediocre agaisnt the run. He gets a lot of his sacks from the superior coverage downfield, and RT's have a hard time handling him. He disappears when he lacks a backside flusher. Put Kamp on the right and put him in a zone coverage scheme, and he is at best a 5 sack a year guy. He is not athletically gifted enough to consistently beat LT's. They are rarely beaten by the bullrush, Jenkins can do it because he is the biggest 4-3 DE in the NFL. Jenkins and KGB were both superior pass rushers to Kamp.

Like I said, Kamp IS one of the highest paid LDE's. Kerney signed as a UFA with the Seahawks in '07, he is the closest comparison to Kamp in the league. Kerney got 6 yrs 39M, the contract averages between 6-7M against the cap over the life of the deal. Kamp isn't getting 6 at his age, he will get 4 or 5. If he averages more than 7-7.5M agaisnt the cap per year I will be shocked.

[bobblehead]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!

I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys

Didn't you just say he was the best FA by a mile, now you are saying he will be franchised. Get your story straight, I agree we won't dish 2 firsts for the dude and a mountain of money. We shouldn't. Best FA since Reggie?? Put down the pipe. A guy named Deion might disagree. Drew Brees anyone??

I know its sexy to pull a Bill Walton and label everyone the best/greatest and try to add drama to every post, but be serious. Peppers is an elite NFL talent, I would love him even for a boatload of money (not two 1sts), but we would be just as well off signing a younger Albert who has had 2 incident free seasons in a row and is about 60 pounds bigger than Peppers.

[Partial]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!

I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys

Didn't you just say he was the best FA by a mile, now you are saying he will be franchised. Get your story straight, I agree we won't dish 2 firsts for the dude and a mountain of money. We shouldn't. Best FA since Reggie?? Put down the pipe. A guy named Deion might disagree. Drew Brees anyone??

I know its sexy to pull a Bill Walton and label everyone the best/greatest and try to add drama to every post, but be serious. Peppers is an elite NFL talent, I would love him even for a boatload of money (not two 1sts), but we would be just as well off signing a younger Albert who has had 2 incident free seasons in a row and is about 60 pounds bigger than Peppers.

Deion is a HOF and Peppers will be too. Brees... I doubt it. Peppers is a stud. He is by far the best player at his position in the league. He and Mario are just a step above, then Allen.

Peppers is an extremely rare talent.

Albert isn't the best at his position in the league. I'd take KWill over him. Plus, KWill doesn't have the baggage. Of course he's bigger than Pepp, they don't play the same position... As for the incidents, I'd say its just a matter of time. Someone with such rage issues as to stomp on another humans skull and try to kill them is likely to act out again.

[Partial]

Waldo, The way Kamp was used in the Packers scheme was they sent both their ends full speed ahead. Kamp is fine against the run. I don't know what you're talking aobut.

As for him being able to play on the left or right, I'm confident he could do either. As for athleticism, thats a myth. GB had him rated as the second most athletic linemen in his draft. He's very athletic.

I'm confident he could line up anywhere and make plays.

Jenkins weighs a lot, but he isn't "big" by DE standards. He isn't long at all, and having that length is very important when trying to beat a big LT.

I completely disagree with you. I think Kamp would do fine against LTs. What is so different between JA and Kamp?!?

[Waldo]

Waldo, The way Kamp was used in the Packers scheme was they sent both their ends full speed ahead. Kamp is fine against the run. I don't know what you're talking aobut.

As for him being able to play on the left or right, I'm confident he could do either. As for athleticism, thats a myth. GB had him rated as the second most athletic linemen in his draft. He's very athletic.

I'm confident he could line up anywhere and make plays.

Jenkins weighs a lot, but he isn't "big" by DE standards. He isn't long at all, and having that length is very important when trying to beat a big LT.

I completely disagree with you. I think Kamp would do fine against LTs. What is so different between JA and Kamp?!?

Explosion is worth the $$ and is what gets RDE's their sacks unless they are strong enough to overpower the LT's (a la Jenkins)

Jared Allen is explosive, and has the ability, just like KGB, to blow past LT's.

When was the last time you saw Kamp get a sack because of his explosion? He has no explosion, he tries hard and eventually gets through, but he isn't beating a T before they get out of their stance.

Kamp is not fine agaisnt the run. He was 2 years ago, but since he has been getting skinnier and tried harder and harder to get to the QB, to the detriment of his run stopping ability. He was mediocre at best in '08 at stopping the run, and gets absolutely destroyed if they double him with a TE or FB.

[wist43]

Dude you're whack. Kampman's pay day could easily double. He is getting on average 5.25 mil a year, next to nothing compared to JA.

JA is a RDE, Kamp is a LDE.

Kamp is in the top 5 highest paid LDE's. If he want's more money, he needs to move to the right and not disappear up agaisnt LT's.

Kamp is not nearly as good as the majority of Packer fans think that he is.

DE is DE is DE. Kampman doesn't have a say over where he plays. The coaches do. I suspect he comes close to doubling his earnings.

Kamp is very good. I get that you're a n00b, but c'mon, Kamp is a top 10 end in the NFL without a doubt.

Must not visit FF eh, or the old GPPG board. I had nearly 2500 at the GBPG board and am closing in on 10K at FF.

That list of the Packers cap that was posted here the other day....

That was my post at FF, I independently track the cap and have for a few years.

(as a sidenote I do make sigs too, this one is one of my creations, I am willing to fill single player requests (I hate doing multi's)).

A DE is not a DE. Kamp is a tenacious bull rusher that is mediocre agaisnt the run. He gets a lot of his sacks from the superior coverage downfield, and RT's have a hard time handling him. He disappears when he lacks a backside flusher. Put Kamp on the right and put him in a zone coverage scheme, and he is at best a 5 sack a year guy. He is not athletically gifted enough to consistently beat LT's. They are rarely beaten by the bullrush, Jenkins can do it because he is the biggest 4-3 DE in the NFL. Jenkins and KGB were both superior pass rushers to Kamp.

Like I said, Kamp IS one of the highest paid LDE's. Kerney signed as a UFA with the Seahawks in '07, he is the closest comparison to Kamp in the league. Kerney got 6 yrs 39M, the contract averages between 6-7M against the cap over the life of the deal. Kamp isn't getting 6 at his age, he will get 4 or 5. If he averages more than 7-7.5M agaisnt the cap per year I will be shocked.

I'm with Partial on this one Waldo...

Kamp is a top flight RDE, one of the best in the league.

A few years ago I saw him as maxed out, but he has proven me wrong. He dropped a few pounds, built himself up, refined his technique, and is as tough a matchup as any RDE in the game.

He's stout at the point of attack, when called upon to perform that task, but too often the scheme calls for him to get upfield and contain, makes it look like he's too easily blocked out of the play, when in fact the design is for pursuit from the inside to make the play.

Make no mistake, Kamp is an all around end... among the best in the NFL.

[Partial]

Explosion is worth the $$ and is what gets RDE's their sacks unless they are strong enough to overpower the LT's (a la Jenkins)

Jared Allen is explosive, and has the ability, just like KGB, to blow past LT's.

When was the last time you saw Kamp get a sack because of his explosion? He has no explosion, he tries hard and eventually gets through, but he isn't beating a T before they get out of their stance.

Kamp is not fine agaisnt the run. He was 2 years ago, but since he has been getting skinnier and tried harder and harder to get to the QB, to the detriment of his run stopping ability. He was mediocre at best in '08 at stopping the run, and gets absolutely destroyed if they double him with a TE or FB.

Explosion? Christ you sound like JH with this arbitrary scale of explosion.

How is JA any more explosive than Kamp? Statistically they were very similiar players in years prior, and this year Kamp didn't have a healthy counter part where as JA had the best DT in the nfl on his line.

Kamp plays LE because the Packers had a playmaker at RE. Now that KGB is done and they recognize they can't count on Jenks, expect to see Kamp on the right side more.

They moved him around in the final week or two of the season and he looked more effective from the right side, so there goes that argument...

As for the double team, I agree he isn't a Peppers, Merriman or Mario. Those are the true SS pass rushers who can beat the double. Not many others can consistently beat it, but Kamp is very good.

As for defending the run, Kamp does't have containment responsibilities. In the scheme, the DEs play pass rush first and foremost, and let the LBs pick up the run if it comes to the created gap. Do you watch the Pack?

Is it the secondary providing an extra second getting to the QB or is it the pressure from Kamp making the secondary look good? Well, most people believe that receivers are going to break free regardless of how good the coverage is if their team isn't getting to the QB, so again, there goes that theory...

[Waldo]

Believe what you want to believe, a just like Collins is an all pro because he intercepted a lot of passes, Kamp is an all pro because he gets a lot of sacks.

Is Collins one of the top S's in the NFL?

Kamp is not explosive, his sacks are schemed and have a lot to do with his secondary and the presence of a backside flusher. If he was such a good DE, the coaches would have move him to the right and played Monty and Thompson on the left, positions that they are better suited to at this time. They know, just like any scout or coach, put Kamp on the right and he will disappear.

[Brando19]

Peppers wants to be a 3-4 OLB... NOT A 4-3 DE... So unless we change schemes he is not coming here... Dream on ladies and gentlemen...

Big Albert Haynesworth is more valuable anyway... I'd rather have him (Hes younger too)...

He said he'd rather play in a 3-4, but also said he's open to anything...he just wants a change of scenery. Sooooo....GAME ON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!
I think TT will look into this one hot and heavy...if he lands Peppers...he may become a fan favorite in GB for once.

[Waldo]

How is JA any more explosive than Kamp? Statistically they were very similiar players in years prior, and this year Kamp didn't have a healthy counter part where as JA had the best DT in the nfl on his line.

Seriously, do you watch football? Kamp has never gotten a sack in his career by blowing by the RT. Jared gets several a year by blowing by the LT. KGB was pure explosion.

Individual statistics are crutches that show very little aside from the fact that you don't know what you are talking about and need individual statistics to explain it for you.

[Partial]

Kampman 40 - 4.65

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-11-01-3681684679_x.htm

Allen 40 - 4.81

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Allen

It is well documented how athletic and explosive the Packers thought Kampman was. I don't know what to tell you other than I don't see any difference between Allen's "explosiveness" and Kampmans. Unless you can provide any sort of evidence, its a pretty poor argument considering the two have put up nearly identical numbers, and the explosive Allen was stoned by many of the league's top LTs.

Kamp has never gotten a sack in his career by blowing by the RT.

Source?

Jared gets several a year by blowing by the LT.

Source?

[Waldo]

The 40 has absolutely nothing to do with explosion. It is not measured. The only way to measure it would be a 3 meter dash.

My proof is watching every Packer game in Kamp's career, about 7-8 Vikings games in '08, and about 4-5 Cheifs games in '07.

Jared has KGB's explosion yet can finish like Kamp, and is better agaisnt the run than both of them.

Is Kamp more explosive than KGB? He got more sacks....

[Partial]

Dude, you're whack. You have no idea what you're talking about. Since when is a qb doing a 5 step drop 3 yards away from a QB?!?

If anything, 10 yard time is a much better indicator. Furthermore, when Kamp is ahead by that much in 40 yards, they are either getting off out of the gates at about the speed and is a better closer, getting out of the gates faster, or getting out of the gates slower but has insane acceleration..

Whichever one you choose, Kamp is getting to the QB faster.

[Waldo]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.