GAME ON- PEPPERS TO BECOME UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT

[Bretsky]

Both of you have some good points, and Waldo, welcome to PR

All things being equal, I take JA over Kampman without thought

I think Kampman is one of the best

Just not as explosive or dominant as Allen

[Partial]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Reggie White lined up on the left for the Packers. At least in the super bowl years.

Merriman lines up on the left often, and so did Lawrence Taylor.

What does that say?!?

[Waldo]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Reggie White lined up on the left for the Packers. At least in the super bowl years.

Merriman lines up on the left often, and so did Lawrence Taylor.

What does that say?!?

Sean Jones lined up on the left. Fritz switched them up every now and then to take advantage of matchups.

Merriman and Taylor are/were both 3-4 WOLB's. They line up on the opposite end of the line as the TE, or on the right with no TE.

[pbmax]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Reggie White lined up on the left for the Packers. At least in the super bowl years.

Merriman lines up on the left often, and so did Lawrence Taylor.

What does that say?!?

No, you have to stop here. You are way to young to have any idea where Lawrence Taylor lined up. He made his career and Hall of Fame by rushing from the Right Side of the defense. He almost never rushed from the Left End. That was where Carl Banks was.

Kampman is not a pass rusher and does not have Allen's skills. wist is right that he is assignment sure, rarely makes mistakes and may still be our best player on defense. But he is not a pass rusher, no matter what his sack total says.

The 3 yard explosion is not about reaching the QB, any D lineman can get there. Its the first three yards that tells you if you can get by the O Tackle cleanly.

[Partial]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Reggie White lined up on the left for the Packers. At least in the super bowl years.

Merriman lines up on the left often, and so did Lawrence Taylor.

What does that say?!?

Sean Jones lined up on the left. Fritz switched them up every now and then to take advantage of matchups.

Merriman and Taylor are/were both 3-4 WOLB's. They line up on the opposite end of the line as the TE, or on the right with no TE.

They play OLB. I have seen Merriman line up on a TE numerous times. They switch according to match ups, but claiming that great pass rushers only line up on the right as you're implying is just foolish.

[pbmax]

OK, this argument has gotten you into the land of bad information.

Reggie RARELY lined up on the right side for the Packers. Fritz did experiment some early with him at Tackle like he used to do with the Eagles, but eventually gave that up. Sean Jones was on the Right side always.

Lawrence Taylor did NOT line up opposite the TE. He was Right Side almost exclusively.

[Partial]

OK, this argument has gotten you into the land of bad information.

Reggie RARELY lined up on the right side for the Packers. Fritz did experiment some early with him at Tackle like he used to do with the Eagles, but eventually gave that up. Sean Jones was on the Right side always.

Lawrence Taylor did NOT line up opposite the TE. He was Right Side almost exclusively.

Agree on Reggie 100%, as its exactly what I stated.

I have seen quite a few highlights on youtube right now with Taylor coming from the left, but I've never seen a live game with him as I'm too young so we'll go with what you said.

In any case, I disagree with you about Kampman not being a pass rusher. He's a pretty good pass rusher imo. His sack numbers don't lie. Pass rushing is about generating pressure. Kampman has been near the top in sacks and pressures for the past 4 years. That to me says he's quite effective at generating pressure. The evidence is pretty much undeniable.

[pbmax]

I have seen quite a few highlights on youtube right now with Taylor coming from the left, but I've never seen a live game with him as I'm too young so we'll go with what you said.

Well, now I have gone and overstated my argument. Taylor was weakside and Banks was stongside but that only held until it was time to rush the passer, when Taylor usually lined up on the right, even if it meant he faced the TE and Tackle.

[cpk1994]

Nope, and it will be a historically dumb move. Best FA since Reggie by a mile!

I'm guessing you drew this conclusion based on him being in action on every major name to become available since he got here

Will we land him...who knows, but I think TT will be in the mix. If Peppers is offered the most money by GB but goes elsewhere ala Arrington, will this be just another example of cheapskate TT??

Peppers is going to command HUGE money. Like never before seen type of money. He's the best DE in the league by a mile.

At any rate, Carolina will franchise and trade him. He's not going anywhere fo' free. With that said, Teets loved his draft picks and won't pony up the two firsts or first and second to land the stud.

As for Haynesworth providing more value, I completely disagree. Not only is DE a more important position and a tougher one to find a very good player at, but Haynesworth has serious character concerns, including a long suspension and I believe he's gotten in trouble for drugs before, too. A big no to the face stomper, at least until he has gotten into the fray for Peppers.

How good would our DL be with both of those guys

Nobody will pony up 2 firsts for Peppers, so stop with the tiered bullshit about TT.

[Fred's Slacks]

In any case, I disagree with you about Kampman not being a pass rusher. He's a pretty good pass rusher imo. His sack numbers don't lie. Pass rushing is about generating pressure. Kampman has been near the top in sacks and pressures for the past 4 years. That to me says he's quite effective at generating pressure. The evidence is pretty much undeniable.

Not disagreeing on Kampman. I also think he's a good pass rusher. He does it his way, as I agree with Waldo that he's not as explosive, but with the numbers he consistently puts up its hard to argue against.

Why is it though, that you can say Kampmans stats prove he is an elite DE, yet Rodgers puts together terrific stats and you say he's a product of they system/play calling?

[red]

like someone already said. peppers wants to be free so he can play in the 3-4

unless we make that switch, we will have no shot at him

and then, honestly, would you want to pay the top de, top de money only so you can play him at a position where you don't know if he can play or not?

[Lurker64]

like someone already said. peppers wants to be free so he can play in the 3-4

unless we make that switch, we will have no shot at him

I'm not so sure how serious he is about playing in the 3-4. By saying that, and sticking to it, he really dramatically hurts his marketability as a free agent. Since he would only be of any value to the ten or so teams that run the 3-4 and then only the subset of those who have sufficient cap room to pay him like he obviously wants to get paid.

Personally I think the "I want to play in the 3-4" thing is just a ploy to get out of Carolina. Considering the probably poisonous atmosphere there after the recent dismantling, I don't really blame him. "I want to play in a different style of defense" makes you look better on the way out than "these guys stink, I'm never going to succeed here, I'd like to go play for a team who has a quarterback capable of completing passes to his teammates."

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

like someone already said. peppers wants to be free so he can play in the 3-4

unless we make that switch, we will have no shot at him

I'm not so sure how serious he is about playing in the 3-4. By saying that, and sticking to it, he really dramatically hurts his marketability as a free agent. Since he would only be of any value to the ten or so teams that run the 3-4 and then only the subset of those who have sufficient cap room to pay him like he obviously wants to get paid.

Personally I think the "I want to play in the 3-4" thing is just a ploy to get out of Carolina. Considering the probably poisonous atmosphere there after the recent dismantling, I don't really blame him. "I want to play in a different style of defense" makes you look better on the way out than "these guys stink, I'm never going to succeed here, I'd like to go play for a team who has a quarterback capable of completing passes to his teammates."

I agree 100%. If you show the guy the money he wants, anyone has a shot at him.

[bobblehead]

If Kamp really is as good as you think he is, why is Jenkins the RDE and Kamp the LDE, RDE is the premium position that makes the big bucks?

I will wager big money that Kamp will not get a contract that has an average yearly cap # anything more than 1M more than Pat Kerney's. He is a career LDE and a poor fit on the right, he is not explosive enough, just like Kerney.

Waldo, I'll back you in 9/10 arguements against partial, but Mario plays LDE as well. So did Reggie White. Guys play right or left for a variety of reasons. Some guys move around.

I agree Kamp isn't flat out explosive like KGB was, but he had about 12 more techniques and was/is a better pass rusher than KGB. Certainly stats can decieve, but Kamp is first rate at this point. He does it differently than some guys, but he gets the job done.

Teams run AWAY from Kamp more than they run at him. That is why when Jenkins took over for KGB we got a lot better against the run. Kamp does exactly what our scheme asks of him without failure. I virtually never throw things at the TV cuz Kamp screwed up or was owned on a play...he is the ONLY defender I felt that way about this season.

I know its popular and fun to label white guys "try hard or non athletic" but it just isn't so. Kamp is gifted in many ways, not just a try hard guy. Kamp is much more effective than simple speed rushers as he likes to use his speed to get a guy off balance then push him to the QB. That style is better as a QB has a harder time stepping into the pocket or escaping it. It runs him into other defenders...it is our scheme (or was). If Jenkins stays healthy and we add a threat you are going to see Kampman with a HUGE year.

As much as I like TT, I miss Mark Hatley. That guy had a unique eye for talent. Drafting guys like KGB and Kampman after the 3rd round. Trading a 2nd for Al Harris. Moving up for Javon Walker. Now those were some great moves. If he hadn't died, we would still have Sherman, never heard of BJ Sanders and be celebrating another trip to the superbowl this year.

[bobblehead]

OK, this argument has gotten you into the land of bad information.

Reggie RARELY lined up on the right side for the Packers. Fritz did experiment some early with him at Tackle like he used to do with the Eagles, but eventually gave that up. Sean Jones was on the Right side always.

Lawrence Taylor did NOT line up opposite the TE. He was Right Side almost exclusively.

edit: sorry, I got my left and right confused. You are right, reggie was mostly LEFT. I was arguing with you all the while agreeing.