Packers express interest in Chris Canty

[Fred's Slacks]

Re: Teddy

A good GM MUST use free agency as a tool. It's ironic that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. I agree signing ANY FA is a roll of the dice but again, that is what they get paid for!

Not to make this the pick on Packnut thread, but I have to chime in here.

How does TT not use FA as a tool? He has signed FA's every offseason. He has had a large number of FA's in for visits over the years that haven't panned out. To say that he "sits on his hands" is just not true. Your first sentence implies that he doesn't use it at all then in the very next sentence you site an example of how he used it successfully.

Also, name 1 GM that has won a Super Bowl in the last 5 years and used a big FA signing to get there.

[PlantPage55]

Re: Teddy

Sitting on your hands gets you a ton of cap space, but also gets you 6-10 and sitting on your ass for the play-offs.

I forgot to mention, it also apparently gets you a trip to the NFC Championship game.

Haven't you heard? Success only belongs to Brett Favre. All the failure belongs to TT.

[Partial]

With Cole likely gone according to JSO, they need some depth badly.

They cannot go into the season counting on Harrell or Jenkins. Both have been perpetually injured, and when they have played the past two years it has been less than stellar as a result.

With that said, Jolly didn't have a great year last year and is switching positions as well. They need DE's like crazy!!!

What???

When Jenkins has been on the field these past 2 yrs, the results have been pretty damn close to stellar by any account.

What? This year, he came out hot for the first 4 weeks, then got hurt.

The previous year? Coaches nagged him consistently to step up his game and to play through the injuries. He was completely ineffective and slow in 2007. He only had 1 sack in 2007, and I don't recall him consistently getting much pressure, either.

With his injury history, it would be a grave error to count on him as a 16 game starter. They need to fortify the depth behind him big time.

With that said, it's a slippery slope because you do not want to pay a guy like Canty premiere money (8 mil a year is a lot, and figure it hits 8.5-9 when all is said and done). Imagine trying to resign a guy like Kamp or Jolly if they outperformed him, then. They'll sure have to beat Canty's annual salary.

It might be wise to keep trying to find some taller, quicker DTs late in the draft that we can convert. They'll certainly come cheaper.

[Guiness]

Re: Teddy

A good GM MUST use free agency as a tool. It's ironic that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. I agree signing ANY FA is a roll of the dice but again, that is what they get paid for!

Not to make this the pick on Packnut thread, but I have to chime in here.

How does TT not use FA as a tool? He has signed FA's every offseason. He has had a large number of FA's in for visits over the years that haven't panned out. To say that he "sits on his hands" is just not true. Your first sentence implies that he doesn't use it at all then in the very next sentence you site an example of how he used it successfully.

Also, name 1 GM that has won a Super Bowl in the last 5 years and used a big FA signing to get there.

You'd have to define 'get there'.

Plexico was a key part of the Giants, and he was an FA. Warner went to the Cards as an FA. So while the teams may not have been 'built' through FA, in each case a key component was obtained that way.

[Fred's Slacks]

With Cole likely gone according to JSO, they need some depth badly.

They cannot go into the season counting on Harrell or Jenkins. Both have been perpetually injured, and when they have played the past two years it has been less than stellar as a result.

With that said, Jolly didn't have a great year last year and is switching positions as well. They need DE's like crazy!!!

What???

When Jenkins has been on the field these past 2 yrs, the results have been pretty damn close to stellar by any account.

What? This year, he came out hot for the first 4 weeks, then got hurt.

The previous year? Coaches nagged him consistently to step up his game and to play through the injuries. He was completely ineffective and slow in 2007. He only had 1 sack in 2007, and I don't recall him consistently getting much pressure, either.

With his injury history, it would be a grave error to count on him as a 16 game starter. They need to fortify the depth behind him big time.

With that said, it's a slippery slope because you do not want to pay a guy like Canty premiere money (8 mil a year is a lot, and figure it hits 8.5-9 when all is said and done). Imagine trying to resign a guy like Kamp or Jolly if they outperformed him, then. They'll sure have to beat Canty's annual salary.

It might be wise to keep trying to find some taller, quicker DTs late in the draft that we can convert. They'll certainly come cheaper.

Well said. If we can get Canty in the 6-7 mil per year range, then I'm all for it. Otherwise, it will be hard to keep the other guys happy if they perform. If we can front load the contract enough, he might be willing to take less per year in order to cash in early. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

[Fred's Slacks]

Re: Teddy

A good GM MUST use free agency as a tool. It's ironic that his best all around GM move was getting Woodson. I agree signing ANY FA is a roll of the dice but again, that is what they get paid for!

Not to make this the pick on Packnut thread, but I have to chime in here.

How does TT not use FA as a tool? He has signed FA's every offseason. He has had a large number of FA's in for visits over the years that haven't panned out. To say that he "sits on his hands" is just not true. Your first sentence implies that he doesn't use it at all then in the very next sentence you site an example of how he used it successfully.

Also, name 1 GM that has won a Super Bowl in the last 5 years and used a big FA signing to get there.

You'd have to define 'get there'.

Plexico was a key part of the Giants, and he was an FA. Warner went to the Cards as an FA. So while the teams may not have been 'built' through FA, in each case a key component was obtained that way.

I'm sure every super bowl winner in the FA era has had one player that was at some point picked up in FA. I'm talking about the big money FAs everyone clamors over. The last 6 winners use FA as a supplemental tool, and were never in the bargaining for the big money guys. Plaxico was picked up by the previous GM who loved to sign big money FAs. Reese signed virtually no one the year they won it all. Warner was not a big money FA and was supposed to be the backup this year. If anyone wanted him all they had to do was out bid the 1yr $4 mil contract the Cardinals offered in 2005. These are not examples of signing a big money FA to put you over the top.

The closest teams to doing it were the Patriots 2 seasons ago and the Eagles back in 2004. Both teams were already good but made big moves in the offseason to try to put themselves over the top. Both lost in the super bowl to teams that had no big money FA pickups that year.

[Fritz]

Here's what I want to know - Waldo. You are claiming that if the Pack misses on Canty, for whatever reason, we should expect an all-out pursuit of Igor Olshansky.

1. You sure you don't work for the Packers? Are you Mark Murphy or something? That is to say, what makes you think the Pack will go in this direction?

2. I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

3. If we land this Igor Olshansky, are we looking at a hunchback playing defensive end? Can MM make him wear a lab coat and in a Peter Lorrie voice ask Igor to get him a brain to put into Barbre's body? (Wasn't it Barbe who people were saying sounds pretty not-smart?)

[Waldo]

Here's what I want to know - Waldo. You are claiming that if the Pack misses on Canty, for whatever reason, we should expect an all-out pursuit of Igor Olshansky.

1. You sure you don't work for the Packers? Are you Mark Murphy or something? That is to say, what makes you think the Pack will go in this direction?

2. I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

3. If we land this Igor Olshansky, are we looking at a hunchback playing defensive end? Can MM make him wear a lab coat and in a Peter Lorrie voice ask Igor to get him a brain to put into Barbre's body? (Wasn't it Barbe who people were saying sounds pretty not-smart?)

No. Igor plays the same position as Canty and is pretty good. He'd be a lot cheaper. Probably a better fit on the team too. He's young too.

Something I do know:
Been watching the airport all day. At about the exact same time, 2 private jets left the GB airport, one went to Scottsdale, one went to Ft. Myers. Each one is owned by a Packers board member (2 different guys). One (the one in Ft. Myers) is known to be used by the Packers (it is the one Murphy took down to Hattiesburgh). Both had return flights flights to GB scheduled before they landed. The Arizona flight was on the ground for 25 minutes and headed back to GB. It just landed a few minutes ago. The Ft. Myers flight just canceled it's return flight flight plan. There's a good chance that there is a FA in GB right now that was picked up in Scottsdale. Hard to make out whats going on in Ft. Myers, they planned to be on the ground for 30 minutes before they landed, but that has changed.

[Fritz]

Dang, Waldo, you are the best thing that has happened to my Packer life since the internet.

Twenty years ago the only news I got was the snippets in the Detroit paper or the transactions that were reported in 4 point type days later. Now I'm up-to-the-minute with the info.

You're awesome, Waldo.

Thanks for the info.

Uh...anybody know what free agents are based in Fort Myers area and in Scottsdale (would that be Olshansky?)?

[mission]

Yeah, Waldo is awesome!!

Now we just gotta figure out who lives in those cities or what agents are based out of those and who they represent.

[Waldo]

I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

That's the JSO blog said. Everyone I've talked to, including SD fans, disagrees with that sentiment completely. They're letting him walk since SD treats DE's like TT treats G's. They don't pay a lot so that they can pay their pass rushers and NT's alot. TT pays for his fancy tackles with cheap guards.

I've become so jaded agaisnt the JSO and GBPG that I can't even read them any more, basically assuming every word they write has an agenda, and that their "scouts" are nothing more than their beer drinking buddies. I do talk to an actual scout (not a pro scout) and several guys that played D1 college football, they always disagree with the newspapers scout's assessments.

I thought that we weren't going to be after Canty, according to their sources. The JSO is full of crap. If Igor is the next best option if we can't get Canty, why not paint him in a bad light when they know that he's a probable signing, that way they can rip on TT when he does sign him. They never, ever, ever can praise TT, and often print negative seed stories when they know something is going to happen (see the latest talk that Pickett is inadequate at NT) so that they can rip on it when it does happen.

[sheepshead]

That's cool beans.

[Lurker64]

2. I've heard - only heard - that Olshansky is a loafer, a bad attitude guy, etc. What has anyone else heard? Anybody have any credible info?

I haven't met the guy, so I can't really comment on his personality or otherwise, but I have seen him play and there are a few flaws to his game.

For one, he doesn't display great lateral quickness, he's not really below average for a guy his size who plays his position, but he is certainly not greatly above average. Also, he doesn't harass the QB as much as some other guys do, even guys who don't get sacks like Jenkins or Canty. You will more often see a Jenkins or a Canty chasing after a QB (but not necessarily recording a sack) than you will Olshansky. Olshansky records fewer pressures, but tends to get sacks a better percentage of the time.

The main positive on the guy is that he is almost unbelievably strong. He's difficult to block because it's virtually impossible to overpower the guy. So given the position and role he'll be asked to play he's a good fit and a definite upgrade over Jolly. The fact that he doesn't move side to side quickly isn't a terrible liability as a 3-4 DE (since he isn't responsible for outside contain), and the fact that he isn't a primary pass rusher in the 3-4 justifies his relative lack of pressures. What he will do is "complicate blocking schemes" which is exactly what you want out of him.

Unlike Canty, nobody is seriously going to look at Olshansky as a 4-3 DE, but as a 3-4 DE Olshansky isn't really far behind Canty. Personally, if we can't get a good deal on Canty (unlikely because of the degree of interest), I hope we land Olshansky ASAP.

[falco]

Dang, Waldo, you are the best thing that has happened to my Packer life since the internet.

dang fritz, this hurts. i didn't even merit consideration?? and after all the nice things I said about you. you have been my favorite posted in last July, but waldo comes in and sweeps you off your feet and thats the end of it...

[Fritz]

Thanks for the info, fellas.

Waldo I too have become rather jaded, particularly about the JSO. I'm not quite sure why there's so much vitriol towards Ted - more than Sherman even faced. To my mine, TT is an excellent GM. Not perfect, but I'd rather have him than just about anyone else, frankly. Part of that is simply that he fits my own personality - I've always believed that the draft is the best way to build a team, with FA used to fill in some gaps. I've never liked teams that try to "buy" their way in - I don't think it works, period. Even the Yankee championship teams back in the day featured much home grown talent like Jeter and Williams. I firmly believe D. Snyder will never be able to buy his way to the Super Bowl.

So I am prejudiced toward TT because he fits my style. Beyond that, though, I just think the guy knows how to evaluate talent, and I think he knows how to use the draft to trade to get to where he can get the maximum talent. This is in part due to his belief in the law of averages - the more picks you got, the better your chances, generally speaking (though they can't be all 7th rounders). Read a gret article in a Detroit paper a year or two ago that confirmed this through some research a couple of professors did.

My sense - and the numbers back this up - is that TT sees the most value in the second and third rounds. Contrary to the opinion of some, TT does NOT love the 7th round best; he has in fact has more second round picks than any other, closely followed by the seventh and third rounds, I believe.

So I trust TT. I just do. This past year sucked, yes, but we'll see if they bounce back. And we'll see if MM is the right guy for the job.