VICK DA GREAT

[Gunakor]

What Vick did was wrong. Obviously. But he has paid his debt. It is time to move forward. If he can find a job in the NFL, best of luck to him.

No, he hasn't. He has merely served his punishment. No debts have been paid as far as society should be concerned. It is indeed time to move forward, but moving forward should begin with making amends and actually repaying that debt. It shouldn't start with a new NFL career. That much he should have to earn, and it shouldn't be earned simply by serving time in a federal prison.

[NewsBruin]

okay, legal/suspension issues aside, I wanted to address my good friend Mr. Deep's affection for Mike Vick:

While Mobb may like Mike and his video-game moves, Mr. Vick wasn't lighting up the league in passing numbers or postseason win%. Take a quarterback with a cannon arm who takes lots of hits from linemen, and you have a guy who subtly loses his scrambling ability and has to rely on eye-fakes and passing accuracy.

Vick was never good in either aspect, and he was frustrating his coaches with his inability to grow as a passer or a field leader (Vick was one of those players who has the annual "He knows it's his time to be a leader and he's going to take it seriously" stories like Allen Iverson and Matt Leinert). Oh, and his darling run-with-the-ball-in-one-hand-away-from-my-body style looks great, but cranks his fumble numbers into Daunte Culpepper's ZIP code.

I think that a wildcat-style feature position would be best for Vick, as I don't trust him to win a game all by himself -- not with modern scouting. Even change-of-pace roles get the mess scouted out of them and become less effective with each game.

I also think that Vick's best chance to extend his career would be to learn FG holding and possibly try to learn punting. Putting him in an open backfield against ST-level talent would play to Vick's strengths.

[Brando19]

What Vick did was wrong. Obviously. But he has paid his debt. It is time to move forward. If he can find a job in the NFL, best of luck to him.

Agreed...he did something absolutely sick and horrible...but he has paid for it. Hell...Stallworth got 24 days in jail for killing a man! WTF? Vick deserves another opportunity.

Stallworth got 24 days for being a dumbass for drinking and driving and having somebody run right in front of his car from what I have read regarding the video of the incident. The dude literally ran right out in front of his car.

Vick, on the other hand, with his free will tortured dogs. It was a business yet he found inventive ways to kill dogs, which makes one think he enjoyed it. I have no idea if he did or not but if it was strictly business, a lehtal injection would have sufficed.


Anyway, on to Mr. Vick's reinstatement. I personally would not count one day of his prison time toward his suspension. The guy could not have played ANYWAY! He was in the federal prison! He could not honor his contract. I would say his NFL punishment starts when he is eligible to actually play, which sounds like now.

My personal opinion is that I would suspend him for a year and re-evaluate him at the end of that time period to see if he is still a sociaopath.

One last note Brando, I was indeed just giving you some shit about West Virigina criminals in another thread....does seem like a rather high ratio but I have nothing against WV. From what I have heard, it is a very nice place although with a bit of a depressed economy.

I agree with all you say. It just seems if me or you would have been high/drunk and killed someone...even if they just ran out in front of us...we would have received a harsher punishment.

No offense taken AT ALL in the other thread about WV criminals. Pacman was a thug at WVU. Owen Schmitt was above the legal alcohol limit in Seattle...but he claimed the test was wrong.

[Fritz]

okay, legal/suspension issues aside, I wanted to address my good friend Mr. Deep's affection for Mike Vick:

While Mobb may like Mike and his video-game moves, Mr. Vick wasn't lighting up the league in passing numbers or postseason win%. Take a quarterback with a cannon arm who takes lots of hits from linemen, and you have a guy who subtly loses his scrambling ability and has to rely on eye-fakes and passing accuracy.

Vick was never good in either aspect, and he was frustrating his coaches with his inability to grow as a passer or a field leader (Vick was one of those players who has the annual "He knows it's his time to be a leader and he's going to take it seriously" stories like Allen Iverson and Matt Leinert). Oh, and his darling run-with-the-ball-in-one-hand-away-from-my-body style looks great, but cranks his fumble numbers into Daunte Culpepper's ZIP code.

I think that a wildcat-style feature position would be best for Vick, as I don't trust him to win a game all by himself -- not with modern scouting. Even change-of-pace roles get the mess scouted out of them and become less effective with each game.

I also think that Vick's best chance to extend his career would be to learn FG holding and possibly try to learn punting. Putting him in an open backfield against ST-level talent would play to Vick's strengths.

Bruin! How cool to see you here!

[mraynrand]

man, i LOVE watchn vick perform fellas

except when sherman screwed us over by not game-planning for him properly in that playoff game

STILL stings

I just saw this. Right. The Packers lost that playoff game because of lack of game planning for Vick. LOL.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Stallworth got 24 days for being a dumbass for drinking and driving and having somebody run right in front of his car from what I have read regarding the video of the incident. The dude literally ran right out in front of his car.

I think the biggest fact that supports his sentence and the contributory negligence is it is my understanding that the family of the man who was killed agreed to the amount of time served, did not push for a harsher sentence, understanding that it was completely an accident. And while stallworth had exceeded the legal alcohol limits, it wasn't by much. It's not like he was falling over himself drunk.

In regard to Vick's debt, there is a lot of debate and differing thought on the matter of incarceration and corrections in this country. I am not arrogant enough to say that I know the answers to it all, but it seems to me that punishment and the debt are integrally linked. And if the state's punishment is not sufficient for the debt, a civil suit often follows. Imposed community service is often used as a means of satisfying that debt. I do not recall, is Vick obligated to perform community service? Regardless, once Vick has fulfilled the punishment and paid the debt as established by the courts, he is a free man and should be allowed to move forward. I will not be the one standing and judging. The court has already done that.

[th87]

Whoa, MPF - welcome back.

Gunakor, as far as Vick goes, what debt does he have yet to pay to society? How can he go about doing that?

I don't think he ever admitted to actually killing the dogs. Those allegations were brought on by his former cohorts looking for plea deals. So I have to reserve judgment on that particular point.

Further, he's partly a victim of his culture. In his particular cultural subset, fighting dogs aren't a big deal. Just part of an everyday thing. As a result, he probably grew desensitized to the whole thing.

What sounds shocking to you and I is probably just an idle diversion to him. As other examples, there are cultures that eat dogs. That sounds appalling to us, but acceptable to them. We are okay with killing animals to eat. That would be appalling to certain other cultures.

The point is, in judging his character, we can't look through our lens. We have to take into account the other cultural factors.

Of course, he did commit a crime, and for that, he has to pay. But I'll stop short of calling him a scumbag, because I don't think even he was able to grasp the seriousness of his actions.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Whoa, MPF - welcome back....

Thanks TH! And nicely put. The Vick ordeal is done. Let's move forward. Any further judgement should be for what happens in the future and on the field. Let bygones be bygones, especially when the punishment is complete.

[MOBB DEEP]

my man FINALLY gonna be "free" tomorrow

clearly vick's conviction shed light on an activity that was/is strictly underground and amongst disenfranchised african-american folk who dont understand the barbarism

it was a black/urban thing and mike was the most popular person to get involved

i would LOVE to know what led him to invest in this atrocious endeavor...

alas, redemption song!

u misunderstood me; i wasnt sayn all poor black folk engage in this nonsense...shoot! i grew up poor and knew fools who did dog fightn..i couldnt even stomach it

and ur right, some white folk do it do but i would bet 75% or better are black folk
I think there are lots of "disenfranchised african-american folk" who don't resort to killing and mutilating dogs just for the entertainment value of it. And it's certainly not just a black thing. The people who do this are just ordinary run of the mill assholes.

[MOBB DEEP]

my man FINALLY gonna be "free" tomorrow

clearly vick's conviction shed light on an activity that was/is strictly underground and amongst disenfranchised african-american folk who dont understand the barbarism

it was a black/urban thing and mike was the most popular person to get involved

i would LOVE to know what led him to invest in this atrocious endeavor...

alas, redemption song!

I think it may have been that he was an asshole to the core. Actually, I'm pretty sure. He didn't invest, he PARTICIPATED in it. He ADMITTED it.


Also, don't use a great tune by Bob Marley (Redemption Song) in the same sentence as a shithead like Vick.

I hope he can find gainful employment, somewhere far away from the NFL.

hate the sin NOT the sinner; WWJD? He would redeem vick da great since His mission is to save the sinner and reclaim the backslidder (from my pastor's sermon yesterday GLORY!)

[Scott Campbell]

u misunderstood me; i wasnt sayn all poor black folk engage in this nonsense...shoot! i grew up poor and knew fools who did dog fightn..i couldnt even stomach it

and ur right, some white folk do it do but i would bet 75% or better are black folk

I just don't see it is a race issue Mobb.

[MOBB DEEP]

u misunderstood me; i wasnt sayn all poor black folk engage in this nonsense...shoot! i grew up poor and knew fools who did dog fightn..i couldnt even stomach it

and ur right, some white folk do it do but i would bet 75% or better are black folk

I just don't see it is a race issue Mobb.

not race "issue" SC

im just sayn i see more of the hip-hop nation types (mainly down south) and black folk on the fringe as participating in dog fighting as opposed to trailer park trash in old smokie country

[MOBB DEEP]

a lehtal injection would have sufficed.

i TOTALLY concur (cept for the spelln)..so weird to have to be SO brutal with slamming dogs on ground, drowning, electricuting, etc...why the brutality? i dont get it....

man's mind can be SO sick at times ala chattel slavery, tar and feathering, castrating, rapping sistas, rodney king, jasper texas, emmitt till, water hoses, sicking dogs on protesters, etc

Jesus, SOON come...

[MOBB DEEP]

whoa, thy're sayn vick da great may end up with brady and moss

imagine him faking a run and throwing bomb to moss?? whew

hey tt, GET VICK....!!!

[MOBB DEEP]

okay, legal/suspension issues aside, I wanted to address my good friend Mr. Deep's affection for Mike Vick:

While Mobb may like Mike and his video-game moves, Mr. Vick wasn't lighting up the league in passing numbers or postseason win%. Take a quarterback with a cannon arm who takes lots of hits from linemen, and you have a guy who subtly loses his scrambling ability and has to rely on eye-fakes and passing accuracy.

Vick was never good in either aspect, and he was frustrating his coaches with his inability to grow as a passer or a field leader (Vick was one of those players who has the annual "He knows it's his time to be a leader and he's going to take it seriously" stories like Allen Iverson and Matt Leinert). Oh, and his darling run-with-the-ball-in-one-hand-away-from-my-body style looks great, but cranks his fumble numbers into Daunte Culpepper's ZIP code.

I think that a wildcat-style feature position would be best for Vick, as I don't trust him to win a game all by himself -- not with modern scouting. Even change-of-pace roles get the mess scouted out of them and become less effective with each game.

I also think that Vick's best chance to extend his career would be to learn FG holding and possibly try to learn punting. Putting him in an open backfield against ST-level talent would play to Vick's strengths.

its pretty elementary NB...

for the record, other than the packers or lord favre i CARE NOT about wins and losses just ENTERTAINMENT...i like watchn certain players make plays PERIOD....im not a kobe fan AT ALL but LOVE his moves

funny u mention A.I. b/c he's my 3rd all time fav behind bird and ewing (im a Hoya for life!)...not b/c he won championship but b/c i dig how he ENTERTAINS me my friend

it is what it is; everone cant win so why not just enjoy what each individual brings to the game??!! vick = sean penn basicaly, great ENTERTAINER